thoughts

[t4trouble]

http://bobgamehub.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/dcs-wwii-vs-battle-of-stalingrad-bos.html?showComment=1396196847198

[Tvrdi]

http://bobgamehub.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/dcs-wwii-vs-battle-of-stalingrad-bos.html?showComment=1396196847198

What a BOS cheerleader said? hehe

and BOs topic about this "blog" is locked...so fast so brutal hihi

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

I was having fun reading the comments.

[ATAG_Septic]

As someone who hasn't been able to invest in either project it was a useful and interesting read.

Thanks for the link.

Septic.

[Foul Ole Ron]

Saying that DCS WW2 is starting to look increasingly like vapourware is complete nonsense.

[rob3rt]

Good article, in my opinion very factual. It's posted on dcswwii backers forum, good fun reading comments there! roflmao

[Chivas]

I've backed all three projects, and currently flying COD more than BOS. I agree that Ilya glaringly underestimates how long it takes to get anything done, but still think he'll do a decent job if given enough time and money. That said 150,000 in kickstarter monies isn't even close to being enough seed money. Hopefully he has other backers. The aircraft parts they've modeled so far look very good, but understand the lack of detailed drawings holding things up. Not to mention that there has been absolutely no info on the terrain using the EDGE graphic engine since one of his terrain builders made a cryptic comment about no cooperation in the DCS forums.

I'd say there is about a 50/50 chance that the DCS WW2 will be released. Luckily I've received my P51 Key a week or so after Kickstarter closed. I actually just setup my controls to fly it last night. Its a touchy beast, but easy to fly and land once you get the feel. I actually have a better sense where the ground is while landing the DCS P51.

DCS World is also implementing the Oculus Rift in the next patch, and I've pre-ordered the DK2 Oculus Rift prototype thats coming out this summer. I'm looking forward to trying the Rift with DCS P51, and the new EDGE graphic engine which also should be out before the end of the year.

[Continu0]

Good, factual, spot on. I donated 150.- to Ilya, and did recieve nothing so far.

In defense of Ilya, DCS WWll has a much more detailed approach and is probably a much more complex project.
Still he fails at basic things that would be soooo easy to do: communicate, show care about customers, live up to promises, etc. FAIL, FAIL and FAIL again. That can`t just be denied.

[Foul Ole Ron]

Good article, in my opinion very factual.

It's not all that factual. For example the claim that people were "promised" the FW190D-9 in Feb 2014 is wrong. The KS page said that the estimated delivery was Feb 2014. All the dates given in the KS were estimates and not promises. They've clearly slipped as is the case in every KS as far as I can see - Elite Dangerous is months behind where they said they'd be releasing a beta. Star Citizen dogfighting module was supposed to be out months ago. Project Eternity has slipped months behind the KS dates.

The jibe about Ilya posting the screenshot of the manual is designed to make it seem like that he's never posted any relevant information. However this manual pic post was only in one update when in all the rest of the updates he's been posting screenshots of cockpits, exterior models, landscape, etc.

The line about the P47 being described as nearly there and then the external 3D shot clearly showing it isn't is also incorrect. Ilya described the cockpit of the P47 as nearly there and judging by the screenshots from the update this seems to be the case. Ilya openly admitted they're having issues with the P47 exterior model as it doesn't seem to be as well documented as some of the other planes.

Backers worried that he's taken the money and disappeared can be counted on one hand though this is written to make people think otherwise.

The question about whether DCS WW2 will be released at all and whether it's actually vapourware is a question with no basis in fact. There's clearly being a lot of work done and there's no indication that this will not be released at some point. ED & RRG want to get this done and right now I don't see any reason why they can't. It will be delayed past the initial estimates but this is hardly a surprise - every 3rd party vendor that starts to work with the DCS code has to put in a lot of grunt work in the beginning to get up to speed on the engine.

The comment about there being very little progress made is pretty uninformed. If you look back at the BOS dev diaries starting from 2012 you see virtually no screenshots of planes, cockpits, landscape for a few months as they were obviously doing the ground work. We've actually seen more information showing progress from Ilya in the early stage of the project than we did with BOS.

But yeah apart from all that a very factual article. There's definitely criticisms that can be made about DCS WW2 - the KS was a bit of a shambles with all it's chopping and changing, the delay in the rewards was poor and should have been handled better and the initial dates should have been more realistic given other 3rd party vendors experiences. But other than that things have been progressing ok as far as I can see. If somebody wants to criticise DCS WW2 they should do so for the right reasons.

[Old_Canuck]

Give it time and the flight sim bias will be reversed with DCS WWII as the best, BOS as the big disappointment and TF-modded-CLOD still holding its own as the center of gravity. Speaking of which, do those aircraft in the videos appear to be wobbling on a string at the center of gravity?

[TheVino3]

It's not all that factual. For example the claim that people were "promised" the FW190D-9 in Feb 2014 is wrong. The KS page said that the estimated delivery was Feb 2014. All the dates given in the KS were estimates and not promises. They've clearly slipped as is the case in every KS as far as I can see - Elite Dangerous is months behind where they said they'd be releasing a beta. Star Citizen dogfighting module was supposed to be out months ago. Project Eternity has slipped months behind the KS dates.

The jibe about Ilya posting the screenshot of the manual is designed to make it seem like that he's never posted any relevant information. However this manual pic post was only in one update when in all the rest of the updates he's been posting screenshots of cockpits, exterior models, landscape, etc.

The line about the P47 being described as nearly there and then the external 3D shot clearly showing it isn't is also incorrect. Ilya described the cockpit of the P47 as nearly there and judging by the screenshots from the update this seems to be the case. Ilya openly admitted they're having issues with the P47 exterior model as it doesn't seem to be as well documented as some of the other planes.

Backers worried that he's taken the money and disappeared can be counted on one hand though this is written to make people think otherwise.

The question about whether DCS WW2 will be released at all and whether it's actually vapourware is a question with no basis in fact. There's clearly being a lot of work done and there's no indication that this will not be released at some point. ED & RRG want to get this done and right now I don't see any reason why they can't. It will be delayed past the initial estimates but this is hardly a surprise - every 3rd party vendor that starts to work with the DCS code has to put in a lot of grunt work in the beginning to get up to speed on the engine.

The comment about there being very little progress made is pretty uninformed. If you look back at the BOS dev diaries starting from 2012 you see virtually no screenshots of planes, cockpits, landscape for a few months as they were obviously doing the ground work. We've actually seen more information showing progress from Ilya in the early stage of the project than we did with BOS.

But yeah apart from all that a very factual article. There's definitely criticisms that can be made about DCS WW2 - the KS was a bit of a shambles with all it's chopping and changing, the delay in the rewards was poor and should have been handled better and the initial dates should have been more realistic given other 3rd party vendors experiences. But other than that things have been progressing ok as far as I can see. If somebody wants to criticise DCS WW2 they should do so for the right reasons.

Well said

[Ctrl e]

Pretty fair article.

People forget $150,000 was pumped into this project. That's no small sum and mandates the developer reply to growing concerns.

[-Sven-]

Pretty fair article.

People forget $150,000 was pumped into this project. That's no small sum and mandates the developer reply to growing concerns.

It is pocket money relative to the size of the BOS project. This article aims to create some sort of race in which the giant BOS is taking huge leaps. The games should be compared to what really matters, namely their features, like cockpit quality! Other features we hardly know about in DCS WWII, except that it has to pass DCS control standard which is promising!

[Screamadelica]

Give it time and the flight sim bias will be reversed with DCS WWII as the best, BOS as the big disappointment and TF-modded-CLOD still holding its own as the center of gravity. I'm thinking that it might turn out that way too.

:devilish:

[jaydee]

Well said I agree !


Pretty fair article.

People forget $150,000 was pumped into this project. That's no small sum and mandates the developer reply to growing concerns.
I put $500 in to KS. I am not demanding or mandating anything !..Ive seen posts where people "Invested" 1 dollar and are demanding this and that.
I put the money in because I love high fidelity "SIMS",and despite my criticism of Luthier in COD,I believe he has a passion to create the best SIM.
If it fails,you can call me Sucker,but im happy to know that I backed a SIM from the ground up.


It is pocket money relative to the size of the BOS project. This article aims to create some sort of race in which the giant BOS is taking huge leaps. The games should be compared to what really matters, namely their features, like cockpit quality! Other features we hardly know about in DCS WWII, except that it has to pass DCS control standard which is promising!
Again I agree Sven.


I'm thinking that it might turn out that way too.
Again I agree Screamadelica.

:devilish:

[startrekmike]

This article is getting taken a bit too seriously by the looks of the comments in various places (the articles own comments are a bunch of "my team is better than your team" nonsense, the locked BoS forum topic was locked for good reason and this one is looking to be the other side of the same coin).

I am a big DCS cheerleader, I desperately want the DCS WWII project to succeed but I think it is going to be a long wait indeed until we see the project really come out, the amount of work required to make just one DCS level aircraft is staggering, let alone a handful, I expect it will be a couple of years at least before the project reaches it's stated initial development goals.

As far as the article, I think it makes some fair points that might be hard to swallow here on this specific forum, it is not saying that BoS is a better sim, it is just saying that as of right now, it is the one that is already in a playable state, most of the heavy lifting is done and the project seems to be moving pretty steadily with solid communication between the developers and the community to boot.

Granted, BoS is not as complex in terms of systems modeling, that is not really up for debate as it is shooting for a more classic IL-2 experience but in the end, I will be playing a complete final release version of BoS well before DCS WWII really starts to come into it's own, in that way, the article is exactly correct.

As for the author calling it "vaporware", well, I won't say he is wrong, it is too early to say but a lot can happen in the time it will take for the project to start to really take shape, still, I seriously doubt that ED will just let them call it quits at this point, they would probably take over the development before they let it get too badly derailed.

[Old_Canuck]

The "my sim is better than your sim" tendency is a natural response to the BoS team who everyone knows are using pseudonyms to post on this forum with a plug for their product using either negative bias or positive bias. Personally, I could care less whose sim is better etc. I'm happy with the TF improved product which is the best remnant of the legendary Oleg/Ilya team (for now). If DSC WW II turns out to be vaporware for whatever reason, I could care less about that as well. The money I spent supporting them was out of gratitude for the many years of fun in the old IL2 FB days.

[gavagai]

I am a big DCS cheerleader, I desperately want the DCS WWII project to succeed but I think it is going to be a long wait indeed until we see the project really come out, the amount of work required to make just one DCS level aircraft is staggering, let alone a handful, I expect it will be a couple of years at least before the project reaches it's stated initial development goals.


The 190 and 109 are well on their way. The Spitfire IX has more or less the same engine as the P-51D (huge help there). My guess is that we'll be flying the 190, 109, and Spitfire this Fall in alpha or beta. We won't fly the P-47 or 262 until the first half of 2015 because the P-47 is the only radial and the 262 is a jet.

Wherever possible they don't build the aircraft from scratch.

[startrekmike]

The "my sim is better than your sim" tendency is a natural response to the BoS team who everyone knows are using pseudonyms to post on this forum with a plug for their product using either negative bias or positive bias. Personally, I could care less whose sim is better etc. I'm happy with the TF improved product which is the best remnant of the legendary Oleg/Ilya team (for now). If DSC WW II turns out to be vaporware for whatever reason, I could care less about that as well. The money I spent supporting them was out of gratitude for the many years of fun in the old IL2 FB days.



I must be horribly naive but I have a hard time believing that anyone on the BoS team would really hang out here (of all places a BoS developer could hang out) and try to push their product.

I mean, it is pretty clear that this is really not the forum to do such things, it would be like going to the Banana forum and trying it, heck, that place was looking for "spy's" under every rock and in every shadow.

[LuseKofte]

If you read the article from a neutral point of view, it is in my opinion not that far from my thoughts of how things are. But I do not know all the facts in any of the sims.
I fly what currently give me most pleasure, and that is IL 2, clod and BOS and almost nothing DCS.
I got hopes for BOS but I am prepared to be disappointed, IL 2 is old but give me pleasure in offline campaigns, CLOD increase its quality, but got only one playable server witch to me is just not adequate in terms of variety.
To me the future of WW2 combatsim has not been brighter, at least if I take my interest in the consideration.

[Broodwich]

What it comes down to from me:

Theater: I really dont care about the russian front at all. Western interests me far more as eastern was a meatgrinder and who cares about russians

Detail: If I wanted IL2: 1946 or simpler controls I already have that on steam with a million other aircraft

Price: I'm not going to pay 100$ for a fing facelift of a game I already have

In the long run I might buy a 190 or La or both from BOS but thats after its all done. I have no inclination to pay for crappier aircraft or what and really dont like the ROF joystick implementation, and certainly no inclination to pay 100$ to be an alpha tester