BF10E1 machine guns / Pre-patch - post patch

S!~

Hey. Quick question. After years of flying Cliffs of Dover- and now recently Cliffs/Blitz- I'm looking for some info.

Scenario ; SOW- 2 years ago- give or take- 6600M- BF109E1/ machine guns only/ converg. 200m-all guns. Dive on 12 Wellingtons- AKA squad in together- along with others- working on the fringes- big speed- No1 from the left- all guns from 800m or so- direct converg. hits- bomber implodes- wing either blows off or is shot off- fire - carnage- zoom0- and repeat. Been there?

Now heres the thing. Were the guns changed? Or more simply- could they ever- E1 with all 6 at convergance- shoot a wing off or explode a bomber? Blennie or Wellie. I'm hearing that its impossible- but I'm quite sure its been done0- over and over. Not the norm- but I'm now thinking things have changed.
A few good pilots were saying its not poss. - and I'm wondering if that's more recent. Not trying to start a battle or this- or really even care that greatly- but it is a something I'd like to find out. Any help is appreciated. I have never recorded a track- or I'd look back.

Thanks !

S!~ AKA_Blasto

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AKA_Blasto

S!~

Hey. Quick question. After years of flying Cliffs of Dover- and now recently Cliffs/Blitz- I'm looking for some info.

Scenario ; SOW- 2 years ago- give or take- 6600M- BF109E1/ machine guns only/ converg. 200m-all guns. Dive on 12 Wellingtons- AKA squad in together- along with others- working on the fringes- big speed- No1 from the left- all guns from 800m or so- direct converg. hits- bomber implodes- wing either blows off or is shot off- fire - carnage- zoom0- and repeat. Been there?

Now heres the thing. Were the guns changed? Or more simply- could they ever- E1 with all 6 at convergance- shoot a wing off or explode a bomber? Blennie or Wellie. I'm hearing that its impossible- but I'm quite sure its been done0- over and over. Not the norm- but I'm now thinking things have changed.
A few good pilots were saying its not poss. - and I'm wondering if that's more recent. Not trying to start a battle or this- or really even care that greatly- but it is a something I'd like to find out. Any help is appreciated. I have never recorded a track- or I'd look back.

Thanks !

S!~ AKA_Blasto

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First of all, the E1 has 4 machine guns, not 6!
Its very very unlikely that you will shoot the wing of any plane with only machine guns. Think about it, how often did you shoot the wing off a 109 with 8MGs of the Spitfire or Hurricane. I have done it ONCE.
With only 4 MGs of the 109E1 I would say it wont happen.

Now, for TF4.5 all DMs were revised and made more realistic and durable. You can still damage the systems inside a plane as easily as you could before, sometimes even easier, but you will not blow things off with 303s or 7.92mm MGs.

You need cannons for that! ;)

S!~

Like I said- I care less to debate how many times you or I done it- or haven't. Was it possible prior to some updates? And of course theres 4 machine guns- but I'm sure its not the point. Was the German machine gun ammo down-graded? Or corrected is perhaps a better way to put it. Lets assume it was- based on a few short discussions with regulars that fly Cliff/ Blitz.

This game is only for fun- and I continue to hope we all learn together what changes have happened. I'm not one to go thru every post and check every aspect of whats been patched / updated / corrected - only to say I and others appreciate the changes- whether or not it benefits one's " side" or not.

Respectfully'

S!~ AKA_Blasto

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AKA_Blasto

S!~

Like I said- I care less to debate how many times you or I done it- or haven't. Was it possible prior to some updates? And of course theres 4 machine guns- but I'm sure its not the point. Was the German machine gun ammo down-graded? Or corrected is perhaps a better way to put it. Lets assume it was- based on a few short discussions with regulars that fly Cliff/ Blitz.

This game is only for fun- and I continue to hope we all learn together what changes have happened. I'm not one to go thru every post and check every aspect of whats been patched / updated / corrected - only to say I and others appreciate the changes- whether or not it benefits one's " side" or not.

Respectfully'

S!~ AKA_Blasto

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Neither the german MGs or the british 303s have been changed.

As I wrote above. What has been changed is the damage modeling of many planes to a more realistic behaviour.
:salute:

The damage values of all the bombers have been changed... they are much more durable... in line with the real aircraft.

And no, you absolutely should not be able to shoot wings or tails off a bomber with 4 MG's.

Yes, you might be able to set an engine on fire, which will eventually burn through the wing... or you could set a fuel tank on fire with enough rounds... again causing a fire which might burn through the wing after a few minutes.

But insta-wingloss from the impact of small MG rounds... NO.

Dunno if its still relevant but when 4.50 came out TFS has deleted the Hart round from the loadout because it wasn't historically used (and it had been reverted to a regular Kern round some time earlier). This mean that if a "user" file (the one with the loadouts in My Docs) was used from 4.312, the loadout could be incorrect because the change had a knock on effect for all the rounds following the Hart round.

For instance a loadout with Phosphor mit stahlkern (incendiary) rounds would have had them replaced with Beobachtung rounds because the "5" previous associated in the config file with the Stahlkern was now a "4".

S!~

Thanks guys for the response! Its really just this small question. In previous versions of Cliffs- was the BF109E1 - with its 4 machine guns- able to saw thru wings? Were the guns capable of - under concentrated fire- explode aircraft? I again return to my IP- bombers at altitude- or anywhere for that matter- getting the sh#t kicked out of them- exploding and losing wings under MG fire...? ( in past versions of course...)

Just for fun- and look forward to being correctly informed- so the Info Police on comms don't bust my chops over basically my own machine gun ammo- or aircraft modeling ignorance! Thanks again fellas- until next time...

S!` AKA_Blasto

PS: Yesterday- pulled 6 WW2 books on BoB fighter pilots - both Allied and Axis - stating that after direct machine gun fire- they blew tails off- exploded aircraft- and basically annialated the airframe. I will re-read - reference and report. Then again- fell asleep reading through all those stories- and should be getting my bikes ready for spring instead of beating this s emi-dead horse...lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AKA_Blasto

S!~

Thanks guys for the response! Its really just this small question. In previous versions of Cliffs- was the BF109E1 - with its 4 machine guns- able to saw thru wings? Were the guns capable of - under concentrated fire- explode aircraft? I again return to my IP- bombers at altitude- or anywhere for that matter- getting the sh#t kicked out of them- exploding and losing wings under MG fire...? ( in past versions of course...)

Just for fun- and look forward to being correctly informed- so the Info Police on comms don't bust my chops over basically my own machine gun ammo- or aircraft modeling ignorance! Thanks again fellas- until next time...

S!` AKA_Blasto

PS: Yesterday- pulled 6 WW2 books on BoB fighter pilots - both Allied and Axis - stating that after direct machine gun fire- they blew tails off- exploded aircraft- and basically annialated the airframe. I will re-read - reference and report. Then again- fell asleep reading through all those stories- and should be getting my bikes ready for spring instead of beating this s emi-dead horse...lol.

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Anecdotes are not proof. In the heat of battle pilots imagine or think they saw lots of things.... including enemy aircraft shot down. That is why the Germans overclaimed by about 2.5 to 1 in the BoB and the British by about 2 to 1.

And yes, you can blow control surfaces off aircraft tails... rudders, elevators, etc. These are much more lightly built... but the main tail structure... very unlikely to occur unless multiple fighters have been pouring fire into the exact same area.

The reports you are reading are probably either imagination or a pilot seeing a secondary explosion due to a fuel tank exploding, oxygen bottles exploding or bombs exploding

Isn't the easiest way to answer your question Blasto to fire up 4.312 again (assuming you've still got it) and test whether it was possible??

Blasto,

Not sure if you are referencing anything I said about it being possible or not. Anything I said was certainly in jest, as I consider just about anything to be possible in the game.

I know I have frequently joked on comms that, "I read something on the net so it must be true." By that I usually am thinking about x or y's post made on these very forums about something being possible or not.

S!~

Np Oracle. Just curious. Nothing wrong with stating your mind- the world is better for it- mostly. Moving forward. I don't have the old version- wrote over it I think. Anyhow- lets just assume I'm right and you're all wrong-lol

Kidding- see you cats soon - good show.

Respectfully ,
Blasto :salute: