VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
So Virpil were having a sale... for a few days... (which now appears to be one of those never ending sales that go on indefinitely)
I decided to pick up a T50 base as a backup in case the VKB Gunfighter breaks one day.
After looking at the various costs and the piggy bank I actually ended up going for the grip as well... standard “improved” edition. I have no idea what the improvements are... but you can also get the standard... erm... non improved version...
I bought it direct from Virpil as that’s over £100 cheaper than from Amazon and at 20% VAT it’s still a considerable saving. It arrived.... without any demand for VAT from UK Customs and Excise. So a really really good saving... in fact it only cost a fraction more than buying just the grip...
YEY !!
I haven’t set it up properly yet as I don’t have an extension for it... with the VKB I have a warthog grip on the 200mm extension. I think the longest virpil one is 100mm, though there are other stupidly priced options available.
So.. I can’t compare them like for like... but here are some initial observations for anyone who is interested:
It took me a while to actually connect the T50 grip to the base. I raised a ticket on Virpil’s site, and got a response, (in English) within 2 minutes !!
You have to pull the cable out of the grip a bit to actually plug it in, so not like the warthog for which its really obvious when the thing is seated properly ..
Then I spent about an hour trying to calibrate the brake lever using the calibration software (which was doing pretty much nothing at all until it was 95% through its motion). In the end I found a rest option... and that cured it... (i.e. I basically uncalibrated it and suddenly it worked... erm... ). So... it didn’t actually work right out of the box... but neither was it impossible to sort out.
So... the grip:
If you shake it the buttons rattle... not exactly a problem but it doesn’t feel anything like as solid as the warthog grip... and the flip down trigger feels like it will break in no time... really flimsy feeling. Id far rather have a metal flip trigger there.... its also very very easy to activate that button while not really intending to. The others all have a very tactile click... the flip trigger?... meh... not so much. Its a small point... but I just know it will annoy me that it’s not better.
That input aside it’s a nice grip. The brake lever is analogue and far superior to the warthogs equivalent lever which is actually just a switch. I prefer the warthog grip though overall. Possibly familiarity. And... Its solid...
Now obviously I could put that grip onto the T50 base (if I reverse the alterations I needed to make to put it on the VKB base) so it’s no biggie.... and it’s certainly not a bad grip. It’s really nice actually apart from that flimsy and easy to accidentally activate flip down trigger...
So... the base:
Well mine has its casing slightly misshapen. Like its been squashed a bit. Pretty certain that didn’t happen in transit though as it was well packed. It will probably bend back, and doesn’t affect the action... but yeah... certainly not perfect ! also the black japanned finish to the allen bolts is half missing on two of the bolts. No major drama, but... the VKB has it absolutely nailed on finish quality for sure.
I was also missing a set of spare springs... it’s supposed to have two spare cams and two spare spring sets... it had the cams but only one springset. VKB are sending out the other springs.
Motion of the stick isn’t as silky smooth as the VKB either. The VKB really glides through its throw, the T50 kind of feels like the cams are slightly serrated. It doesn’t actually affect anything much and there is no drag... but it’s definitely a different feel. It’s not bad though, just very different.
One thing I will says for the T50 base is it feels very solid. The VKB does as well but if I had to decide which I would want inside a real plane... I’d go with the T50. It just seems more rugged. Hard to say why. I guess its like the difference between a surgeon’s scalpel and a lumberjacks felling axe. The T50 is the axe.
I’ve yet to open up the T50 to see what’s inside, and without having an extension I’m unlikely to put it into service in the coming weeks. But eventually I will... and will update this thread.
As things stand right now.... I would be happy with either of these. For the price I paid the T50 is superb and it has the advantage that it uses the same connector and electronics as the Thrustmaster kit. A nice simple swap of grips is possible.
VKB seem to have gone down the “Apple” route and made a series of bespoke electrical connectors and even internal electronics. It all works great, but..... I don’t think they are really doing themselves any favours with that.
Leaving the electrical connectors out of it, the physical connection of the stick to the base is way better in the VKB. The grip is clamped in place and cannot rotate. With the Virpil (and warthog) if you inadvertently twist the grip it can come loose. I had this a few times with the Warthog back when I was still using the original base. The VKB however isn’t going anywhere no matter how much you twist it. It’s just more secure.
What else?
You can’t use the T50 as a desk mounted stick unless you want to fly with your arm in the air and right in front of your face, but it isn’t billed as a desk mounted stick so you won’t want a T50 unless you are mounting it to something or using one of their hangers. And I must say Virpil’s desk hanger thingy looks like a very good option... but I will probably just go to the garage and make my own as I did for the VKB.
Wonder how much longer the never ending “sale must end soon” sale will go on for. :D
EDIT:
Someone else reviewed them with video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hFivQyfWv8
That's exactly how my Gunfighter is set up too, (although with my own clamp setup).
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
Quote:
I haven’t set it up properly yet as I don’t have an extension for it... with the VKB I have a warthog grip on the 200mm extension. I think the longest virpil one is 100mm, though there are other stupidly priced options available.
VirPil (VPC) sell 50, 75 and 100mm extensions individually or all in a bundle (with little save), that like MFG extensions can be combined in between, e.g. 125mm, 175mm...
https://virpil.by/en/shop/accessorie...nsions-set-vpc
Consider too that T50 grip length bellow palm rest - without extension, is equivalent to an Warthog grip with ~50mm extension.
https://s29.postimg.org/zbt558qhj/T-50x_TMW.jpg
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
Quote:
Originally Posted by
1lokos
or:
https://www.kabelverschraubung-kaufe...ubung-m36-emv/
Cable glands with the correct thread. 50mm lengths. Sold in packs of 2.
original article here:
https://forum.warthunder.com/index.p...hog-extension/
scan down a bit and you will see them (in brass) stacked up
The Virpil ones are actually probably similar overall in cost I suppoose and of course you get a cable as well... way better price than many of the other options out there !!
some of those other ones are just stupid money.
I actually had one chap who makes them instisting to me that if I was serious about siming I'd definately buy from him.
Much pressure? yeah... I guess you could say there was...
I didn't bother talking to him after that !
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
Mini update:
I finally went inside the T50... looks very very very robust. And I really like how they have implemented the springs. I noticed on mine that the threads in the mounting bracket are wayyyyy out of true. Looks like whoever tapped those threads did it while dancing the charleston on trampolene.
I sent a photo to the man in Belarus... and he's shipping a replacement. Yippee !
I also ordered one of the desk mounts (which is at my local post depot waiting for me to go and collect) and I've ordered three sets of these https://www.kabelverschraubung-kaufe...chraubung-m36/ ... so 300mm in total for about 30 euros... Ive had them shipped domestically to my Mother in Laws place and will pcik em up next week when im in Germanyland. Postage to the UK makes them noty really worth it over the Virpil ones... but domestically its a no brainer. £80 for 325mm of tubes or £30 for 300mm of tubes... (click)
Having said that Virpils accessories are I think very competatively priced.
I also ordered the right type of mini din connectors so i can make my own cables up without resporting to the ps2 bodge. Cost about £2 for two pairs or teh correct connectors
All the above is excellent news since my VKB Gunfighter went mental last night and now spikes like crazy through x-y. Its behaving as if its made with cheapo pots. It's near impossible to fly with it at the moment.
Luckilly for me I bought it via the USA outlet and the services is super fast and super helpful so far. They suspect it's a loose wire to one of the Mars Sensors...
will open it up tonight and follow the instructions I have been given.
Until I have a result there, or have put the T50 into action I'm grounded.
meh !
Very much hoping the gunfighter issue is simple... and non reocurring... I will of course keep you posted dear reader.
It's a good opportunity to finally set up the T50 and do a propper comparison of the two.
that will be the week after next.
:salute:
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
Update to the update.
I followed the advice of VKB...
Rainer (the USA chap) was really helpful last night and extreamly quick to respond...
teh Russian boffins said it sounded a lot like one of the contacts at the MARAS sensor had become either dislodged or was not making a 100% connection...
open stick.. unplug all connectors... replug and check.
It's spot on accurate again. No spikes... i suspect adding a bit or dielectric grease to the conectors would be a good idea... but it's back together now and I cant be bothered. :D
Bottom line on that... i was worried it might be a big bad issue...
it certainly doesn't look like it though... and VKB (USA) and really great to deal with.
will check the virpil out in a couple of weeks and give a bit of a final blurb on this.
:salute:
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
I wrote this earlier to the RagTags and figured id replicate it here.
I was describing the process of sorting the Gunfighter's temporary x-y glitches out (fixed easily... no cause for concern).... it gives a pretty good idea of how these two gimbals present themeselves visually so I plagarise myself as follows:
and while I was in there I was marvelling again at how neat it all is. It's a very small package compared to the T50 and really nicely designed. A work of art really
it's like comparing a swiss watch to a grandfather clock... ... or a princess to a lumpy monster.
Both are quite quite excellent.
basically one is like an imacculate piece of art. the other is more like a tractor.
Lamborgini v Lada
and i mean those both as very very positive statements. !!
I'm certain neither will ever break. I suspect the t50 isn't actually capable of breaking but i havent really tried yet.
the biggest question now is which one to keep. (both I think)
I think the VKB Gunfighter is superb. It's a brillaintly compact design. It feels smooth, it's basically amazing.
I think the Virpil T50 is superb. Its a hugely robust construction and I love the way the spring system has been designed, in compression rather than tension. It's fully preperdicular to the axis being "sprung".. there are no twisting forces possible. It's all direct.
That said the forces here are not eaxctly supsension bridge... so both are way more than capable.
fun this isnt it ? :D
They are both superb.
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
Quote:
...I'm certain neither will ever break.
Just in case, VKB extension springs, specially the strong version (#50) are subject to broken - characteristic of this type of spring, like in old Cougar UberNXT gimbal. :D
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
OK...
so the extension kit arrived... (i got the Virpil full three pack)
With the Virpil T50-mongose at its lowest possible lever on teh desk nout and all three exteions this stick sits at about the same hieght as the VKB Gunfighter.
Basically ideal height for me.
The throw on the VKB is greater. But its not like there is a lack of throw on the T50.
I put a Warthog grip on the Virpil as awell as on the VKB to test them like for like. (and i really like the warthog grip...)
The VKB i have with the standard soft dentent #20 cam for roll and the Warthog specific one on pitch. #20 springs on both axis.
The Virpil i have on the standard soft detent cams and i switched out the springs for the lightest set.
One thing that i did notice straight away os that the tension on the Virpil stays pertty linear through the throw. Where as the VBK ramps up the tension as you approach the full limit.
i think i prefer the virpil for that... and that its further adjustible in tension due to the adjustments built right into the case.
Visually the VKB is way way better. teh swoop of the extension, and slight tilt of the grip. it looks great.
The Virpil in comaprison with its straight tubelay extention looks... like scafolding really. Its frankly ugly in comparison.
In use?
hell... these are both superb.
Virpil hae really pulled a blinder with their setup in so much as they make a really great mount system, really competatively priced extensions, and hve instant interchangability of grips with a single mount / socket type.
I havent yet used the grip that came with the Virpil T50. and it feels flimsey compared to the warthog grip. the brake lever and flipdown trigger feel... cheep... they need to be metal. hat said im not using it anyay so.....
So which will i keep?
well teh T50 is now mounted to the desk on its hanger... and i will be using that for the near future.
The VKB has the advantage rthat it can (if i wanted) be used as a desk top stick. But... that isnt something i want these days...
The virpil cant be used that way though... so... it rather depends on your furniture setup really.
the extra throw of the VKB and its dry clutches I think would be absolutely superb for helicopters. I think much better for that than the Virpil...
i have limted time though so helis isnt something that ive messed about with
They are both great.
I think im leaning toward the Virpil
might give it a month and see...
Virpil are really onto something here. They have a full range of products that really works superbly. Very impressive.
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
i have virpil as well....pre ordered and got into first batch. Im sure they fixed some things since then, cause that first batch was rushed and therefore with some flaws. Soldering was bad with few cold joints so i had to resolder some things, add washers on pcb and change cam screws as they were really bad quality. I agree that plastic grip and buttons feels very cheap and clumsy. I will probably replace some buttons at some point.
Although virpil is VERY accurate that it feels almost like cheating, i need more throw cause i'm heavy handed, so i went back to warthog that gives me that with its weight and more throw.
It is good stick overall. It is a lot better with warthog grip IMO. I guess it comes to personal preference.
Meyer from my unit is using one as well. So he might share some experiences.
i decided to keep virpil as replacement stick for now. I'm thinking of modding it and use it to control some stuff in my modular synth. :D
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
Hi ,I bought the Mongoose T50 base last November i use it with the warthog stick . I bought the 3inch and 7 inch extensions to go with it.
After a lot of faffing around with it I settled on using no extension at all , now then I have always flown any stick I have used in the past with all the slider sensitivity settings all the way to the left at 0.00 I think it is. So as you can imagine the plane is very twitchy and sensitive . The T50 has 15 degrees of movement the warthog has 30 so full deflection on the T50 is only half of warthog hence the super sensitivity of the T50 which suits the way I fly. Believe me it takes a lot of practice to fly with this stick even without setting the sensitivity sliders to the left. When I first got it I tried it with the sliders to the right at 1.0 it was still way more sensitive than any other stick I have used.
I love the fact that you can change the spring strength settings via 2 little access holes on top of the T50 base so no stripping down.
I can't vouch for or give any advice on the VKB as I have never used or seen one
But I can vouch for the Virpil Mongoose T50 base with a warthog stick on top ,it is for me a fantastic combination . But be aware of its super sensitive action it does take some getting used to but the rewards will put a big smile on your face
Hals and beinbruch
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
Yeah.... Virpil T50 base with Warthog grip on top.
It's the dogs knees.
That said... the VKB gunfighter with Warthog grip on top is the bees whiskers...
Anyway... I'm out of metaphors now so I shall stop here
(Before it all turns to bollocks.)
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
Hello again.
and welcome back to this weeks episode of "V v V"
The new trendy acronym for "VKB - Virpil".
On this weeks show we will just cut to the chase:
I've now flown with both.
Grips:
Both units mounted with a Thrustmaster Warthog Grip
Extensions:
VKB unit has a curved 200mm single piece
Virpil is mounted with all three of the extensions they offer.
both give the same elevation... its like for like
Mount:
VKB uses a home made heavy duty ply wood unit clamped to desk
Virpil uses the steel Virpil desk hanger
both wore very well... my diy version has zero flex... the Virpil has some. (minimal)
Though I can't tell them apart at all in flight.
Verdict:
The VKB:
It's smaller... mounts closer to the desk (so i can sit closer to the screen)]
huge throw... super accurate
It's amazing.
The Vipil:
The spring tension I dont even notice. It's really linear.
The clamp, though not rigid like my ply wood diy version... man... its great !
Almost Final Toughts:
For me.. the Virpil T50 is the one I will be using.
The linear nature of the springs and the ease of changing spring tension... yeah...
the VKB?
its a great great stick.
if i wanted a high end desktop stick this is DEFINATELY the one i would have.
if i wanted a pit mounted helicopter stick... again... the VKB for sure... way more throw... it's ideal
but right now... for my fixed wing stuff wuith a drop mounted stick...
Virpil T50 for sure.
Last Thought:
Virpil have really got a superb setup. I think their mounts are the best there are for the money.
The extension kit they offer is easilly the best value available (and terrific quality)
I think they have absolutely nailed this as a system.
I haven't used their grip yet... though I have one... (came with the base unit) and... hmm... I dunno...
Warthog grip is still amazing.... Im sticking with that !!
:salute:
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
T50 mongoose base Virpil mount and Warthog grip i agtee Seas tis fandabbydosie
Hals und beinbruch
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ATAG_Highseas
VKB uses a home made heavy duty ply wood unit clamped to desk
A guy post .DXF drawing - If i remember well in DCS forum, for cut a plate for use Gunfighter in VPC deskmount.
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
Man in fed up with Virpil.
great initial help.. then... it kinda peaters out.
Right now I really really wish I'd kept the VKB Gunfighter
https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...l=1#post326691
Re: VKB Gunfighter – Virpil Mongoos T50
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ATAG_Highseas
I see you sorted out your problem with virpil joystick. I just popped in to say that, for me, progressive resistance (more tension as you move out of center) in VKB joysticks is one of the best features I ever experienced with flight gear. Its fantastic as the brain remembers the resistance more than the throw. Its superb for both piston and jets but for jets its even better.
