TFS Update 05/26/2017: Patch 4.5 details

[ATAG_Colander]

Either way 20ms at those velocities are not going to have an impact on game play.

Perfect! I need something to blame when I miss my shots

[Blackc5]

Hispano V was only used in the Tempest, it was a lighter weapon with shorter barrel but improved rate of fire, it lost muzzle velocity over the Mkii, 860ms vrs 830ms for MkV, as far as I know all service Hispanos from 1941 were Mkii, cartridge is the same on all from Spit through to Typhoon mk ii 860fps with longer barrel. not seen 880ms quoted much but that may be for the lighter ap or hei instead of the heavier ball?

Either way 20ms at those velocities are not going to have an impact on game play.

I would agree 20m/s will not create much of an impact but this is just an example of one item on the list, and I did not want to get into the whole historical accuracy issue.

the question of how the 20mmX110mm in the 520 is modeled, which I believe the french labeled 4.04? is identical to the hispano except the rate of fire is much higher, will have a big impact on game play.

lets shelve this until after the patch comes out, I started by asking a question that I thought would be easy for TFS to answer ("what are they using", not "what is historical accurate") and it has turned out not to be so, at this point it is only pissing people off and not getting anywhere.

Go TFS!

[Blackc5]

Perfect! I need something to blame when I miss my shots

that is what i need too lol

[ATAG_Flare]

Just curious, why would the rate of fire be faster on the French hispano than on the British? (The sources I found say 650rpm for the Hispano Mk. II and ~880m/s velocity.)

[Blackc5]

Just curious, why would the rate of fire be faster on the French hispano than on the British? (The sources I found say 650rpm for the Hispano Mk. II and ~880m/s velocity.)

the HS.404 was the original version of the cannon firing the 20mmX110mm round it was developed by the French, the Hispano was somewhat a copy of it but the British mkII version had a lower rate of fire.
the French HS.404 in the 520 is my favorite fighter vs fighter aircraft cannon (except for the 60 round capacity).

[kashiide]

Black5,

HS 404 means Hispano Suiza 404,it is the same firm.
The French HS 404 has a rate of fire of 600 rpm.the first production ones had higher ROF,but it was troublesome and prone to jam,so ROF was lowered to 600 RPM

So no differences between HS 404 and Hispano MK1 and MK2,except the MK2 had a belt feeding system instead of the 60 rounds drums.

The cannons in the early Beaufighter are Hispano MK1,exactly the same cannon than HS 404.
The observer had the task to reload the 4 cannons,as the Beaufighter carried in total 16 drums,4 for each cannon

[BOO]

the Beaufighter carried in total 16 drums,4 for each cannon

[Gromit]

Black5,

HS 404 means Hispano Suiza 404,it is the same firm.
The French HS 404 has a rate of fire of 600 rpm.the first production ones had higher ROF,but it was troublesome and prone to jam,so ROF was lowered to 600 RPM

So no differences between HS 404 and Hispano MK1 and MK2,except the MK2 had a belt feeding system instead of the 60 rounds drums.

The cannons in the early Beaufighter are Hispano MK1,exactly the same cannon than HS 404.
The observer had the task to reload the 4 cannons,as the Beaufighter carried in total 16 drums,4 for each cannon

I seem to recall the ROF was lowered by reducing the recoil springs, they misfed as the cases got trapped on the higher rate?

Mike Allen a Beau radar operator mentions reloading the cannons was an unpopular job as it was easy do drop a rather heavy drum on your fingers and you sometimes had to manually re cock the cannon after, sound like a real pain in the backside!

[kashiide]

Yes it's a real flying tank.very fun to fly

[dhyran]

Hiho Gents,

one thing is for sure, when 4.5 is released i am back again with some friends of mine

CAN'T WAIT!

<S>
dhyran

BTW. classic question, is there a release date for 4.5 yet? (beside two weeks please)

[ATAG_Ribbs]

Nah..no release date yet.. just working hard to get it finished.

[aus]

Maybe after TF 4.5 if I have time... but that would likely take about a week of my time and require a very complex post or series of posts.

And by the way, it is not just me... it is other people as well... our coder Colander as well. I see a problem with how the game's physics engine or system is simulating as aspect, and then I put in a request to him... he then has to spend huge amounts of time re-coding the game. He is still working on getting the power generating math correct for all the new supercharger types we are introducing. He has been working on this since we first started the mod... and the latest engine modeling has been two years in the making.

Take a look at this article if you want to understand the complexities of the equations which need to be translated into code:

http://www.enginehistory.org/members...lysisR-R.shtml

I believe CoD has the most complex aircraft engine simulation of any Flight Sim out there... it is far in advance of anything I have seen.

It is up there and if it is fixed, will be unbeatable with the combined environment and overall attention to detail. Can't wait. Go TFS

[Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders]

What about damage model of the RAF planes and LW ones ( Bf 110 in particular )? What about the balance between fighters and heavy-fighters bombers?
Do we have to expect in this patch the same crap damage model that we got now or there will be some modifications\works made about it?

Sorry but actually the damage model of the RAF planes is pretty puzzling.
As you know I fly mainly the Bf 110 and is pretty boring ( to use an educated term ) to be always damaged by aircraft that fly as per normal vented and oiled and crippled of bullets for ages.
The engine of the Bf 110 breaks in seconds when hit and the aircraft immediately tends to go down as a rock whatever trim you apply.
Some minutes ago a vented Spitfire escaped from me ( me undamaged ) flying at 700 km\h...come on....

[BOO]

Never ever been my experience of RAF types. Engine and Rad damage and you have 2 maybe 3 mins at most usually a lot less.

[Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders]

Never ever been my experience of RAF types. Engine and Rad damage and you have 2 maybe 3 mins at most usually a lot less.

This is true only for oil radiator damage and not so for water radiator damages. The big problem is that, in both cases, the RAF planes continuing to make maneuvers as if they are undamaged.
Climbing, diving, gaining speed, etc all stuffs that, I can assure you, in a Bf 110 damaged are ALL impossible to be made also in the more favourable circumstance and lucky situation.

[Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders]

You can make a simple test by yourself if wanting: damage on purpose both the oil and water radiators of RAF and LW planes when at 4000 meters of altitude and then following a path easy to be tracked, try to fly for as long as you can.

When I've done it the results were these:

Bf 110: From Dunquerque harbor to about Wissant ( following the coastline )

Bf 109: Pretty much the same as the Bf 110

Spitfire|Hurricane: Dunquerque harbour --> French point --> Boulogne ( following the coastline )

Both the Spitfire|Hurricane seems to have some kind of positive buoyancy that keep them in flight for ages in respect to their German counterparts also if damaged.
It's not the first time that I'm damaged 4-5 km north of the Calais area and I'm not able to reach the coastline while the damaged RAF plane of turn, from the same position, is able to come back easily to its bases at Hawkinge or Lympne...or from Le Havre they back, with the water radiator damaged, to Crepon without a problem.
It's not the first time that I'm not able to gain on a damaged RAF plane flying on the deck ( or at any altitude ) while my aircraft has got no damages at all ( note that in the Bf 110 once damaged you are lucky if you can keep 200 kmh in levelled flight ).

Is normal having damaged planes going more faster than undamaged ones? I'm not an experienced mechanic but...few words to the wise....

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Hello Molders

Are you aware the British radiators carried more fluid in their reservoirs than the German's did?

Since the game models radiator leaks on a single constant, that is why a British aircraft will take longer to drain... and seize.

Anyway, in regards to your comments about the Bf110's:

- Changes in TF 4.5

- 110's will see better climb, high altitude performance, and a higher ceiling... with the fixing of the bug which affected this

- 110's will see better turn and energy retention... due to the more precise engine modeling and the consequently more accurate aerodynamics

- We will be introducing the Bf110C-6 ground attack variant as well as the Bf110C-4B... which was another low alt fighter bomber... and the fastest 110 down low, faster than the C-7's.

Otherwise you will need to get used to the fact your chosen aircraft is inferior in most air combat categories to single engined types.

But good on you for challenging yourself.

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Oh yes, forgot another change for the Bf110's for TF 4.5.

In the event an engine is damaged and needs to be shut off, the Bf110 pilot will be able to feather the prop on that engine to reduce drag.

[Gromit]

Hello Molders

Are you aware the British radiators carried more fluid in their reservoirs than the German's did?

Since the game models radiator leaks on a single constant, that is why a British aircraft will take longer to drain... and seize.

Anyway, in regards to your comments about the Bf110's:

- Changes in TF 4.5

- 110's will see better climb, high altitude performance, and a higher ceiling... with the fixing of the bug which affected this

- 110's will see better turn and energy retention... due to the more precise engine modeling and the consequently more accurate aerodynamics

- We will be introducing the Bf110C-6 ground attack variant as well as the Bf110C-4B... which was another low alt fighter bomber... and the fastest 110 down low, faster than the C-7's.

Otherwise you will need to get used to the fact your chosen aircraft is inferior in most air combat categories to single engined types.

But good on you for challenging yourself.

Bit baffled by this altitude bug, as I understand it the problem is in the atmospheric modelling rather than the individual aircraft, so surely the red aircraft will also see a benefit when the bug is fixed?

[ATAG_Colander]

Bit baffled by this altitude bug, as I understand it the problem is in the atmospheric modelling rather than the individual aircraft, so surely the red aircraft will also see a benefit when the bug is fixed?

Absolutely all planes will behave differently.
Hopefully they will all be a lot closer to real life but, that doesn't mean there will not be those who complain that their favorite aircraft is porked

[ATAG_Ribbs]

As long as my Hurricane does 700 km/h....with the wings still attached, I will be happy....

[Mysticpuma]

Regarding the damage modelling, will it be possible to have bits of the CR.42 fall off instead of them always breaking in half behind the cockpit?

[kashiide]

Regarding the damage modelling, will it be possible to have bits of the CR.42 fall off instead of them always breaking in half behind the cockpit?

this would require rework of the damage models(3d and texture) and the code attached to it.
possible,lot of work.

[DerDa]

Absolutely all planes will behave differently.
Hopefully they will all be a lot closer to real life but, that doesn't mean there will not be those who complain that their favorite aircraft is porked

You mean I will no longer be able to catch those 109s with my Tiger Moth???

[IIJG27Rich]

Not that F4

[ATAG_Colander]

You mean I will no longer be able to catch those 109s with my Tiger Moth???

Depends...
In a free fall with no engine, if the Tiger Moth looses it's wings, it will have less drag so it will overtake a 109.

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

Depends...
In a free fall with no engine, if the Tiger Moth looses it's wings, it will have less drag so it will overtake a 109.

Is there any other way to fly a Tiger Moth?

[Tibsun]

Depends...
In a free fall with no engine, if the Tiger Moth looses it's wings, it will have less drag so it will overtake a 109.

Will we ever see a plane going faster with lost bits? Because my current experience is, it doesn't matter what you lose, if you lose a part, it creates airdrag.

Like that one, I clipped both wingtips of a hurry, guess what happens? It was half the speed. Airdrag of turbulence at the damaged parts? Is it modelled that way?

Also planes with both wings fully cut off (airdrag obviously can't overtake here) tends to slow down, even when the heavy part pointing streamlined downwards.

[ATAG_Colander]

Are we complaining that the FM for planes without wings is wrong?

[Tibsun]

Are we complaining that the FM for planes without wings is wrong?

Yes! I want my clipwing hurry to be supersonic