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Thread: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

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    Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    Hi everyone,

    DISCLAIMER: This is not a thread to rant on the ATAG administration, and it is not a thread to name and shame. I just want to have people's opinions on the matter.

    It has been recently brought to the community's attention (especially on the Red teamspeak channel) that using bad language is strictly prohibited in order to maintain a friendly atmosphere. Sensitive topics like sex, politics, race and religion should be avoided at all costs. Nobody can disagree with that: it's a no-brainer.

    However, I have realized that there are more and more people getting warned about the use of "inappropriate" language. Some words like the F-word, the N-word are not acceptable for obvious reasons. But now, you see people getting yelled at for inadvertendly slipping up words like "darn" or "damn" or "Gee" or "Jesus" or "Hell" or "Crap" on the basis that they are offensive to kids and religious people. I am not going to give names, but it is becoming a common occurence and it is not an isolated case. Slip-ups are slip-ups, and I am starting to see people get blamed for what would've been given a free pass a couple of months ago. Cliffs of Dover is a PG16+ game, not a Disney movie. People should be treated like they are grown men, not children. An occasional curse in the heat of action should not make someone eligible to being metaphorically lined up on a wall and shot.

    My question is: where do we draw the line? Could the admins of political correctness give us a list of what we can or cannot say? Some words are deeply rooted in our vernacular depending on where we come from. Where I come from, using words like Jesus or darn are as harmless as saying "Yummy-Yummy Gummy Bear Pudding" (except if you're shouting them during a Church sermon...). In some cases, I deem it to be a cultural thing first and foremost. The flight sim community is as varied as it can be. What if a Mexican guy is named Jesus... will he have to stop using his name because it's the name of the Son of God and some people might find it offensive? This example is absurd, but it shows the underlying issue of moral relativism. What is deemed morally reprehensible for some folks might be harmless like apple pie to others.

    I went to Church when I was a kid and I am well-aware of religious political correctness (even if I am not a religious person). But if I want to hear a sermon about whether or not I shall use the Name of the Lord's Son, I will go to Church, not to the ATAG teamspeak. Personally, I find that kind of moral high-horsing annoying, lofty, and quite frankly disrespectful. I do not tell people what is right or what is wrong; and I assume people will have the common sense and courtesy not to attempt to enforce their views on religious righteousness on me. It's a matter of mutual respect. Religion is sensitive and cultural, and as all things cultural should take into account that not everybody grew up in [insert-name-of-random-southern-us-state-where-people-are-deeply-religious].

    I do not wish to tell ATAG what to do: it is their place and I am their guest. They owe me nothing at all. But if some of their staff members want to enforce a code of political correctness on Teamspeak, I suggest they make an explicit and thorough list of what can or cannot be said under any circumstances. Or tone down the language policing a notch. Whichever works best for everyone.
    Last edited by Chuck_Owl; Mar-15-2015 at 20:46.

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    I agree with you post 99%. The 1% i dont agree is to make a list. Its just common sense. Why should there be a list of profanity - writting it it would be a profanity itself.

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    Interesting, I haven't flown for a long time and have only dropped in on TS to say hey occasionally.

    I like the friendly and tolerable tone TS has but there is a line of ridiculousness IMO (not saying this exists in ATAG TS, just in general life). Words you've mentioned like the F---, F--, N----, etc should not be tolerated at all with the last two being much more strictly regulated, 1 strike only, due to the demeaning reality of those words. The F--- word should be avoided but the occasional slip shouldn't be governed with an iron fist. The occasional god damnit or what have you shouldn't really be looked at. If someone is saying it every sentence then sure, tell them to cool it down but by no means should a single slip warrant a warning.

    I won't even post some of the things that really are said in the heat of battle and there should be a middle ground for TS. Its a middle ground that really becomes a gray area so not sure if its really even possible due to the reasonings you gave.

    My solution:

    The Allied Bar-n-grill that I think Stormbat ? created. I find myself in there just so I won't feel bad if I let something slip but the problem there is not many people go there... but when the rare occasion does happen that more people are in there, people gravitate towards where the most people are.....

    In short, I think we all should take a common sense approach, if we have a mouth like a Sailor or ears like a virgin. Both sides need to respect and bend to each other.
    Last edited by 69th_Spiritus; Mar-15-2015 at 20:43. Reason: I just read my post and think its funny that I dashed out the F--- but didn't god damnit.
    Spiritus

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    You make some good general points Chuck_Owl.

    We do have to accommodate a wide range of people with a wide range of beliefs and cultural norms. Our different time-zones can exacerbate this a little, what might seems appropriate to the speaker with his head-phones on at 12:30am might not six hours earlier.

    I have no knowledge myself of the incidents you refer to and I personally fall more on the free-speech side of things. I certainly don't agree that there is some inalienable right to take offense but we have so many channels available it seems to make sense to keep one family friendly.

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    Forgive my ignorance and curiosity; what is the 'N-word'?
    Does it rhyme with 'Bigger' or 'Yahtzee'?
    A genuine question I assure you. I'm virtually impossible to offend due to my place of birth and upbringing. I have no problem with people swearing, I'm sure I've dropped the odd unintentional S/F-bomb. I feel sorry for those offended by swearing, who have to endure someone who's every second and third words are offensive.

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    I'm a f'ing sailor for god's sake. How the hell am I supposed to communicate if I can't drop an f-bomb and goddammit in near every sentence? Holy shit, have I been losing dog fights to the church lady?

    ~S~

    AKA Knutsac

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by AKA_Knutsac View Post
    I'm a f'ing sailor for god's sake. How the hell am I supposed to communicate if I can't drop an f-bomb and goddammit in near every sentence? Holy shit, have I been losing dog fights to the church lady?

    ~S~

    AKA Knutsac
    BTW Knutsac - I'm not indecisive; I LIKED your post, accidentally pressed dislike as well.

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    I warned of this long ago. that is all I will say.
    ANON6 - Tactical Group Play | CLOD - DCS SERIES - STAR CITIZEN - ARMA3 | www.anon6.com[/CENTER]

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    WARNING ADULT LANGUAGE



    NSFW



    fuck
    Last edited by ATAG_NakedSquirrel; Mar-15-2015 at 23:53.

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    il_570xN.544015730_lxxl.jpg

    Squirrel you have been warned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    DISCLAIMER: For the animal lovers, he was dead before nailed!
    Last edited by Injerin; Mar-15-2015 at 23:53.
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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Injerin View Post
    il_570xN.544015730_lxxl.jpg

    Squirrel you have been warned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    DISCLAIMER: For the animal lovers, he was dead before nailed!



    I AM YOUR GOD! WORSHIP ME!





    ....


    Jokes aside. We have folks on TS from all over the world of different ages with different backgrounds. We have the ATAG Bar and Grill channel for "Strong language" (below flight 1,2,3,4,&5) is there a better setup we could use to more easily accommodate pilots and eliminate confusion, or make it easier for players to fly together without having to hear the obscene chatter of naughty pilots?

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness



    Last edited by Injerin; Mar-16-2015 at 00:14.
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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    I worked in Australian mines for a number of years and picked up some pretty choice words that are part of my everyday language now.

    However, I'm somehow able to filter them out most of them time. I got warnings for some of it and it was warranted.

    I was wondering if a language barrier is part of it? I have seen the examples of warning over the use of the word "crap". That is ridiculous. I would prefer no filter but I understand why it's in place. There are younger people playing and we have a cursing channel if we want to be sailors.

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by 69th_Spiritus_Mortem (US-S SM) View Post
    My solution:

    The Allied Bar-n-grill that I think Stormbat ? created. I find myself in there just so I won't feel bad if I let something slip but the problem there is not many people go there... but when the rare occasion does happen that more people are in there, people gravitate towards where the most people are.....
    .
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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    Personally I like many warn on the F bomb, N word etc. and can easily over look the occasional profanity slip in conversation or excitement. As long as profanity is not an every other word situation, I am pretty tolerant. Being a former Jarhead I could spew inappropriate and offensive language at will but make a conscious effort not too.

    I am certain we will have a ruling from the server gods soon.
    Last edited by InvaderZim; Mar-16-2015 at 01:01.

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness






    Anyways, back on more of the topic...

    The language barrier is an issue I think.
    Spiritus

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    Bad language? DOWN WITH SPANISH! DOWN WITH FRENCH!


    Anyways, here are my thoughts on the topic.

    Being one of the younger ones you speak about, I'm mature enough not to freak out over someone dropping the f-word or something similar. I haven't been flying for a while, and if someone said something bad like the f, n, or s word, they would be calmly warned and most people were good enough to not use language like that again. Seeing that people are now being disciplined for using words like heck, hell, damn, jeez, etc (words that will come out of my mouth) is a little concerning to me. I can understand the "big ones" being on the naughty list, and perhaps more religious curses such as "Jesus" or "Christ" could be bad as well.

    I think we're all mature enough to know what's appropriate and what's not. This isn't kindergarten, we shouldn't need to be policed over every time we curse about getting one-shot-pilot-killed or vulched. Darn and damn will have to do. What else would we say? "Oh yummy nummy gummy worms!"

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    The language at times can at times get rather off at times but more often than not someone from ATAG or another player will speak up and point it out. I remember an Aussie tourism add a few years ago with a girl on the beach and saying " where the bloody hell are ya!" caused a bit of a sturr at the time, couldn't see the problem with it myself. As for the religious names, they are very commonly used in everyday life, is OMG offensive? If they are i will have to tell my past and future female friends to not say that anymore HAha. People would be walking out of movie theaters all around the world in droves if it was so unacceptable. None of that bothers me in the slightest as i dont class it as real swearing. As for dropping the F , C , N word is out of line at all times. Also it can also be in the way the words are used," wow bloody good shot that! " OK. " You bloody idiot, why did you do that!" NOT OK. You will also get people at times just having a crack at someone just for the sake of it as it makes them feel good about themselves. A bit of common sense goes a long way and realizing that people on TS are from all over the world, not just your neighborhood. Eg In the USA , if you pat someone on the fanny, grid iron players seem to do this alot, a pat on the bum, if you pat someone on the fanny in Australia you would be facing rape charges. I will let you guess what part of the female body that is. If i said i was just chucking on a pair of thongs and going into town, some parts of the world would thing im talking about a G string, no thongs in Australia are what other places call flip flops, foot wear. So a bit of common sense and Curtice on both sides of this will go a long way and just drop the main swear words at least. We all know what they are.

    As for global political correctness, a few months ago my nefew who is 8 was playing an online arma2 online mod game where he was a criminal and others were playing police, him and two other of his fellow crims were hiding in a building and surrounded buy several cops, they eventually gave themselves up and exited the building and were told to come out with their hands up. quite innocently as walking outside he said " don't shoot" , two of the players that were playing as police, and obviously adults, then began abusing and calling my 8 year old nefew a racist and other things. this was when i stept in and gave them a piece of my mind. Having a go at a kid from another country who has no idea what is going on in their country i found to be totally disgusting.
    Last edited by Mrmaverick; Mar-16-2015 at 04:15.

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    I fly blue so I try to swear in German

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    The idea is that every one, everywhere could play this game on a Sunday afternoon in the living room, with loudspeakers on..even with the mother in law for a visit -and be allowed to play next Sunday as well..

    Yeah, its a hard one..so the trick is knowing when to transmit and when not to..

    Lucky me, English is not my native language, so I'm "slipping thru" when


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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    We all understand that Jeepy but dropping a shit or a jezz does not offend 95% of the player base.
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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    God dammit!! Now it pays off that I sneak to flight#1 most of the times ...

    John Lydgate: “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    I can understand some objecting to bad language. I think some words are acceptable and, for me, the occasional slip by a player is ok. I hear worse on the TV at primetime.

    I remember the use of back slang in the local markets by traders toto overcome offending customers and passers by. Backslang or the 'k cab genals' as it was called was quite simple but didn't always follow the rule of simply pronouncing a swear word backwards.......here are a few example

    k-cuff or cuffing

    Streabs (breasts) tits was never used for obvious reasons......lol

    Tish

    Ex. "Look at the gels (legs) and streabs on her ........holy tish!


    A market traders conversation was littered with back slang. Problem was, that as kids we learned it fluently. Lol
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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    I sort of like hearing the different colloquialism's that pass as slang in other Countries.

    Some are quite funny but if I ever hear "Yummy-Yummy Gummy Bear Pudding" again, (unless it is being shouted during a Church sermon) That will be the end Chuck!!!
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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Jeepy View Post
    The idea is that every one, everywhere could play this game on a Sunday afternoon in the living room, with loudspeakers on..even with the mother in law for a visit -and be allowed to play next Sunday as well..

    Yeah, its a hard one..so the trick is knowing when to transmit and when not to..

    Lucky me, English is not my native language, so I'm "slipping thru" when


    Jeepy your allowed to play CLOD when the mother_in law is over? Your lucky i am not , the wife make me talk to her
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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    My two cents even though that stretches the budget. I am religious but I am not pious to the point of being offended by a slip of the tongue. I've been corrected on a few occasions by my wife, who is much more devout than I am, when I stub my toe or such. I do believe a certain criteria has to be maintained even if it's a friendly warning. We at New Wings have attracted quite a bit of unhappy soules over the years who do not like how we police OUR servers. And yet, they continue to come back and we continue to police.

    Yes, it can be taken to far and I personally have and learned to regret it. So I personally wrestle with what is appropriate and what is not. We all, with few exceptions, slip now and again. I once worked with a man who's every sentence, seriously, had GD in it. I don't think he could talk without saying that. I felt sorry for him.

    Verbal slips will happen. The key here is how it's corrected (if at all) and how the person being corrected handles it. Two mature people will handle something like this well, but one who is not will throw it askew.

    Now we're talking about verbal communications here but something we get ALL the time is the TYPING of profanity or innuendoes. My opinion on this is much more harsh and less understanding. Why? To me it takes a conscious thought to type such. And thus, is NOT a slip of the tongue but an intentional effort to disrupt those around them.

    My ending thoughts is that perhaps those in control should collectively review their thoughts on this and then proceed on. There has to be rules and actions by the Server Operators to keep things orderly. They are not here to insult or bruise anyone's ego but to help provide a descent atmosphere for all to fly in. And this is NOT an easy task.

    Chief
    Last edited by ChiefRedCloud; Mar-17-2015 at 10:54.
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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    In the rules:

    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/rules.php

    "Harassment in chat will not be tolerated. This should be a no brainer, but try to be civil. 99% of the players online are there to have fun. Tempers will flair occasionally. People will have bad days. This is all understandable and the facts of being human. But if you make it a habit to bring others down on a constant basis, or just flat out complain all the time, you will find yourself with a vacation from the server. If you have gripes or complaints about the mission, we have forums for that. If you have gripes or complaints about the game, 1C has forums for that."

    Let common sense prevail, if there are problems let ATAGers know and we will address and correct accordingly.

    ZIM

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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    ATAG's server.......ATAG's rules.
    If you don't like it....you'll be banished to the ATAG Bar and Grill
    What I find worse than the occasional explicative is the special little snowflakes who monopolize the channel
    with their banal banter about "WEE look at meeee, I'm........now I'm........everybody pay close attention I'm.......
    May allah smite them.

    Now somebody please get this godless sodomite off my six........
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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snarglepuss View Post
    ATAG's server.......ATAG's rules.
    If you don't like it....you'll be banished to the ATAG Bar and Grill
    What I find worse than the occasional explicative is the special little snowflakes who monopolize the channel
    with their banal banter about "WEE look at meeee, I'm........now I'm........everybody pay close attention I'm.......
    May allah smite them.

    Now somebody please get this godless sodomite off my six........
    Snargle,

    I want to be all over you like a gay man giving the Heimlich!



    Gaidin

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  50. #30
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    Re: Language Police - Defining Political Correctness

    F bombs are one thing but the derogatory version of negro should be an insta ban. Don't care if your black or not it's not a word you should use anymore. I think a good ol cbomb is more polite and far more classy.

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