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Thread: Tab-7-1 Removed?

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    Ace 9./JG52 Hans Gruber's Avatar
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    Tab-7-1 Removed?

    So during the bomber night on server #2 a lot of us noticed that ATAG has found a way to disable the Tab-7-1 messages. Will that find it's way to the main server soon?

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Could be.
    This was an experiment. Would like to hear what the community think before moving it to server 1.

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    I agree TAB 7 1 is too much like AWACS (except for the missing altitude info).

    Yesterday I found the otherwise-better TAB 4 1 flawed: "I have no trade for you" or "No enemy aircraft in range" when clearly enemy aircraft were aloft in droves all over the map at various altitudes. I repeatedly checked throughout the mission both the North and Central Radar Posts and never got a plot. Needs fixing.

    Ideally the gap in time from requesting a plot from radar and actually getting it should take a few minutes rather than the current 30 seconds or so. This would reflect the the chain of communication delay between pilot and Control.

    My 2 cents.


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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Only things wrong with Tab-7-1 are that it notes contacts that would be below a radar's horizon or are in ground or sea clutter (low-level a/c), contacts that are inland UK (although the network of spotters would presumably make possible some sort of approximate track), it differentiates between fighters and bombers, it's range is too great (over the continent), and it only gives approximate range and bearing for contacts outside a 15-mile radius. Oh yeah, and the Germans shouldn't have it at all. As each in-flight RAF squadron had their own controller who kept a running track of the squadron's position as well as any enemy contacts, an extended delay in reporting positions (including approximate altitudes) shouldn't be necessary. However, I'm not sure the resolution/target discrimination of CH radars, so once friendlies and enemies were mixed closely, the controller probably wasn't much help (perhaps "you should see him" should be about it when within a mile or two).

    Standing by for incoming.

    ~S~

    AKA Knutsac

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Still, flying alone and on an unpopulated server, tab71 is very nice. especially for people who aren't blessed with a massive screen for spotting. It's only accurate within 15 miles anyways, so whats the big deal?
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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by KansasCS View Post
    Still, flying alone and on an unpopulated server, tab71 is very nice. especially for people who aren't blessed with a massive screen for spotting. It's only accurate within 15 miles anyways, so whats the big deal?
    If you fly a bomber you would know its a big deal, for both sides. There are ones who specialised themselves to be bomber hunters using Tab 7/1. When i flew a bomber i would think its normal to get shot down in over 50% of the times (beeing realistic), specially if the sortie is without cover. I wouldnt expect to get shot down 90% of the times, no matter what altitude or course i try to take. So.. it will increase the chances of the bombers to actually get to the target and come back.

    Colander the only odd thing i found when i was in the bomber, during bomber night, was that my compass would only work if i put the mouse over. It didnt move to correct heading... something within the script?

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Lolsav View Post
    the only odd thing i found when i was in the bomber, during bomber night, was that my compass would only work if i put the mouse over. It didnt move to correct heading... something within the script?
    That has nothing to do with me and I doubt the mission could cause that.

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Not in the script either. Weird! Also @snapper - the tab 4-1 radar was disabled, though still selectable in the menu. Sorry, I probly should have mentioned it!

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Any chance this fix will be made official, im sure the other servers out there would love this!

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    I fly often on empty server and tab 7-1 is usefull. I remember when i start playing CloD if Tab was not there to help me I wouldn't be here now replying to this post. I tell you what, wanna know if removing tab 7-1 would work? Just leave the server 2 running without it, and the server 1 with it. You see wich one is populated.

    As for the bomber problem like Lolsav saying, just increase the accuracy of the ai gunners and you deal with the problem.

    To me tab 7-1 is what level the odd for the less experiance and the one's with inferior equipment or eye's.
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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by AKA_Knutsac View Post
    Only things wrong with Tab-7-1 are that it notes contacts that would be below a radar's horizon or are in ground or sea clutter (low-level a/c), contacts that are inland UK (although the network of spotters would presumably make possible some sort of approximate track), it differentiates between fighters and bombers, it's range is too great (over the continent), and it only gives approximate range and bearing for contacts outside a 15-mile radius. Oh yeah, and the Germans shouldn't have it at all. As each in-flight RAF squadron had their own controller who kept a running track of the squadron's position as well as any enemy contacts, an extended delay in reporting positions (including approximate altitudes) shouldn't be necessary. However, I'm not sure the resolution/target discrimination of CH radars, so once friendlies and enemies were mixed closely, the controller probably wasn't much help (perhaps "you should see him" should be about it when within a mile or two).

    Standing by for incoming.

    ~S~

    AKA Knutsac
    More things wrong with that I am afraid. If you have the misfortune of flying the oldest (i.e. the first to spawn) bomber on the server every single enemy fighter has a vector right to you no matter what your range or alt is. Also, consider that TF5 will take us to a new location and Tab-7-1 comes with it so not just a "BoB" issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by KansasCS View Post
    Still, flying alone and on an unpopulated server, tab71 is very nice. especially for people who aren't blessed with a massive screen for spotting. It's only accurate within 15 miles anyways, so whats the big deal?
    It's accurate out to infinite range. It just doesn't report the range >15 miles/30 km. If you fly the heading it reports you will bump into something eventually as long as the target isn't destroyed.

    Quote Originally Posted by No.54 Ghost (KL-G) View Post
    Any chance this fix will be made official, im sure the other servers out there would love this!
    +1 to that. This would be a great tool for server admins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decibel dB View Post
    I fly often on empty server and tab 7-1 is usefull. I remember when i start playing CloD if Tab was not there to help me I wouldn't be here now replying to this post. I tell you what, wanna know if removing tab 7-1 would work? Just leave the server 2 running without it, and the server 1 with it. You see wich one is populated.

    As for the bomber problem like Lolsav saying, just increase the accuracy of the ai gunners and you deal with the problem.

    To me tab 7-1 is what level the odd for the less experiance and the one's with inferior equipment or eye's.
    Server #1 will always be more popular. I fail to understand why my choice to spend hours of my time flying a bomber in a stealth manner should be negated by your bad eyes.
    Last edited by 9./JG52 Hans Gruber; May-10-2015 at 14:23.

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    You know Hans that there is a difference between disagreeing and disliking, right?
    It takes an airplane to bring out the worst in a pilot.
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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Yes, PLEASE make this something that will either make it into TF 5.0 or is available as a 'hotfix' for server operators. Tab 7-1 affects every server that is attempting to do its own more historically accurate radar.

    Please.

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Would it be possible to somehow (script?) to make tab 7 1 available if the number of players is below a certain number and then enable it if the number of players rises above this number? Perhaps every 15 mins when the script does the 15 min update (objectives time left etc) it could do this count and enable/disable it accordingly?

    I like the idea of removing it but it does help to bring people together when the server is empty like it is most nights in Oz/kiwi- land ( often less than 10).

    Ezzie

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    "If you have the misfortune of flying the oldest (i.e. the first to spawn) bomber on the server every single enemy fighter has a vector right to you no matter what your range or alt is."

    I do appreciate the brave CloD bomber pilots, but being detected by radar (except for the issues re: coverage and altitude) isn't the problem. The problem is they fly in unescorted and often alone. Should they really expect to survive over enemy airspace when using such tactics? I can't count the number of lone bombers I've intercepted (w/o Tab-7-1 by the way) without escort. If even one 109 is around my job of downing the bomber gets infinitely more difficult.

    ~S~

    AKA Knutsac

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by AKA_Knutsac View Post
    "If you have the misfortune of flying the oldest (i.e. the first to spawn) bomber on the server every single enemy fighter has a vector right to you no matter what your range or alt is."

    I do appreciate the brave CloD bomber pilots, but being detected by radar (except for the issues re: coverage and altitude) isn't the problem. The problem is they fly in unescorted and often alone. Should they really expect to survive over enemy airspace when using such tactics? I can't count the number of lone bombers I've intercepted (w/o Tab-7-1 by the way) without escort. If even one 109 is around my job of downing the bomber gets infinitely more difficult.

    ~S~

    AKA Knutsac
    So, the real solution is for bombers to have escorts. Which means there needs to be planning behind a bomber mission. No escort, fly at your own risk and stop complaining.

    Don't blame Tab7-1 for that lack of planning. Not having escorts is the root cause, here, not being shot down by a fighter whose purpose is to find and shoot down bombers.

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    do you know how hard it is to get escorts???? very few will take the time to babysit
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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by III./ZG76_Saipan View Post
    do you know how hard it is to get escorts???? very few will take the time to babysit
    But, just as fighters are drawn to the bombers, to shoot them down, so the escorts are given the opportunity to shoot down those enemy fighters.

    Also, are you suggesting that the game should be changed (eliminate Tab7-1) because bombers can't get escorts? We come right back to the problem being the lack of escorts, not that Tab7-1 is "unfair" to bombers.

    Tab7-1 is a symptom, getting shot down is the disease, having escorts is the cure.

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Decibel dB View Post
    I fly often on empty server and tab 7-1 is usefull. I remember when i start playing CloD if Tab was not there to help me I wouldn't be here now replying to this post. I tell you what, wanna know if removing tab 7-1 would work? Just leave the server 2 running without it, and the server 1 with it. You see wich one is populated.

    As for the bomber problem like Lolsav saying, just increase the accuracy of the ai gunners and you deal with the problem.

    To me tab 7-1 is what level the odd for the less experiance and the one's with inferior equipment or eye's.
    I agree with the first paragraph, but disagree with the last sentence. Tab7-1 is CloD's version of Chain Home. It is not a cheat.

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    There are better, more effective, more historically accurate, and more immersive RDF systems out there. The various Tab 4 RDF and FREYA systems that are available (on some ATAG missions I believe as well) are far more useful to pilots who use them.

    The removal of Tab 7-1 will not eliminate RDF or Chain Home or methods of locating other players on the server. It will just be different.

    Honestly, this isn't a question for the player population anyway. This is a question for people making content, who host servers and make missions. These people are the ones who have a vision to create. If the removal of Tab 7-1 is an option to them, that's their choice. Players will vote with their feet if a mission maker's removal of the Tab 7-1 option is unpopular.
    Last edited by No.401_Wolverine; May-10-2015 at 22:56.

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    I don't see much good coming from the removal of TAB 7-1.

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    I like the idea, like Wolverine said, there are other methods out there.

    Either way though its worth testing it out for a week on server 1.

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Tab 7-1 does come in handy when there are fewer players online, especially on certain maps. Since it seems that the main issue is with bombers being unfairly targeted, I suggest that a single vector may be given through tab 7-1 without identifying it as a bomber or fighter. This, in my opinion, would serve both issues well.

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by badfinger View Post
    I agree with the first paragraph, but disagree with the last sentence. Tab7-1 is CloD's version of Chain Home. It is not a cheat.

    badfinger

    Hi Badfinger, where did I say that it's a cheat?
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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    It would be very nice to know how this was achieved.

    @ Gruber - what was the effect of it, just no reported targets or some custom message or....??

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Is it possible to have one of the missions on server 1 to have Tab-7-1 removed as part of a trial?

    I loved not having it on the bombing mission, thanks for the great surprise ☺


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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoW Reddog View Post
    It would be very nice to know how this was achieved.

    @ Gruber - what was the effect of it, just no reported targets or some custom message or....??
    Yep no reported contacts RD.
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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Decibel dB View Post
    Hi Badfinger, where did I say that it's a cheat?
    Sorry, I wasn't implying you, personally, said that. Just that others seem to have that opinion.

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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by badfinger View Post
    But, just as fighters are drawn to the bombers, to shoot them down, so the escorts are given the opportunity to shoot down those enemy fighters.

    Also, are you suggesting that the game should be changed (eliminate Tab7-1) because bombers can't get escorts? We come right back to the problem being the lack of escorts, not that Tab7-1 is "unfair" to bombers.

    Tab7-1 is a symptom, getting shot down is the disease, having escorts is the cure.

    badfinger

    90% of the 109 pilots prefer to roll and head to french point....they prefer the free hunt. as for the tab7 issue i could go either way....we know what the red targets are...all you have to do is a cap for the them.
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    Re: Tab-7-1 Removed?

    Elements of Chain Home system should be able to destroy.
    In the case of Tab 7-1, that system always works and can not be destroyed by bombers.
    From the Russian-speaking group of bombers, please remove the Tab 7-1, or at least make a available way to turn off this feature for owners of other servers.
    Last edited by Cassius; May-11-2015 at 12:36.

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