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Thread: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

  1. #31
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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    I try to hammer the radio talk in to the axis all the time ... but not mutch affect. . Mwa. Some times a litle affect.. but 1 time I goth back... I am at i over Dover over ..over.. hahaha.. it stil is a fun place..

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    Novice Pilot pitt's Avatar
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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    as a non native english speaker from germany all the slang (specially US) here made it very difficult to listen
    and very often there is only some
    empty talk (about a new headset etc) i try to understand strained,
    so that i had to switch off TS frequently.
    i did not expect oxbridge(would love it), but clear commands and informations .
    I think Radio Discipline is here the appropriate english term!
    for conversations there is a special room,isnt it?

    So to be frank, sometimes it really SUCKS folks!!!
    Last edited by pitt; Apr-06-2015 at 23:36.
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=8351&dateline=1426991  687

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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    109 here.
    He's going vertical...
    Scratching my left butt cheek now.

    Right click->Mute Client.

    Try that, pitt. It's what I do :) I think you'll find muting only 1 or 2 particular people often makes TS 80% more useable. I try to never, ever mute anybody as I feel it's a bit harsh to do so. And maybe I didn't know 109s tend to go vertical and really need to know that ;) Sometimes, though, I just can't concentrate otherwise.

    I'm sorry you've been having some bad experiences, but hope my suggestion helps you. We want more folks on TS, not less!
    Last edited by 69th_Turn; Apr-06-2015 at 22:23.
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  5. #34
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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Turn View Post
    109 here.
    He's going vertical...
    Scratching my left butt cheek now.

    Right click->Mute Client.

    Try that, pitt. It's what I do I think you'll find muting only 1 or 2 particular people often makes TS 80% more useable.

    I'm sorry you've been having some bad experiences, but hope my suggestion helps you. We want more folks on TS, not less!

    Didn`t notice this function before,great idea !Thanx mate!
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=8351&dateline=1426991  687

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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by pitt View Post
    as a non native english speaker from germany all the slang (specially US) here made it very difficult to listen
    and very often there is only some
    empty talk (about a new headset etc) i try to understand strained,
    so that i had to switch off TS frequently.
    i did not expect oxbridge(would love it), but clear commands and informations .
    I think Radio Discipline is here the appropriate english term!
    for conversations there is a special room,isnt it?

    So to be frank, sometimes it really SUCKS folks!!!
    You can't expect people in a "public" teamspeak to use radio brevity all the time. Regular folks are not used to it most of the time, and I can't hold it against them. It's like that in every game where Teamspeak is involved. That's why I always go to another "Flight" channel with people I know. I'm not a snob: it's just that 25+ people talking at the same time make my brain explode. And I'm not the kind of guy who will say "All right everyone shut the hell up!" on public teamspeak. Public is, like the definition says it, "public". Don't like it? Go to another Channel. That's what I do each time I lead a bomber flight. Those who want to use proper brevity follow, the others are left behind in the "pub".

    Last night I saw 13 71st online and about 10-20 more other red folks on the teamspeak pub... in the same Channel. It was a horrifying experience, I had to take a pill because of the migraine I had just for listening to 5 minutes of incessant, overwhelming, meaningless and agressing banter.

    There's a section in the 71st Squadron Pilot Handbook about proper comms and brevity. Here's a quick excerpt:
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...ad.php?t=16436

    • Communication is an essential part of a successful squadron.
    • Teamspeak is the software of choice: it’s great and it’s free.
    • Communication is not about the amount of information you transmit
    to your fellow squad members. Proper communication is about
    transmitting information that is relevant and meaningful.
    • If you hear someone call for “Brevity, please”, it doesn’t mean that he
    doesn’t like you. Even the most experienced pilots get that call once
    in a while. “Brevity” means that you are in a situation that requires
    people to remain silent unless someone has something to say about
    an immediate threat.
    • If you are in a Teamspeak channel that has over 20 people in it, you will immediately notice that
    people who are not familiar with using brevity will ruin your day. It is easy to be overwhelmed by
    the sheer amount of information. It is even worse if there is irrelevant information thrown in the
    mix. A good exercise is to ask yourself: “If I was flying in another plane, would I want to hear that?
    Would I find it useful?” The answer is generally self-explanatory.

    • Relevant information is:
    • Location, altitude and heading of contacts spotted
    • Engine troubles
    • Request for mission (“trade”) or objectives
    • Request for assistance
    • Request for target or contact identification

    • Irrelevant information is:
    • Where you are (unless you are in need of assistance)
    • Where you are going (unless you are asked)
    • What you “think” you see (you either see something or you don’t)
    • Your engine settings (unless you are leading a flight)
    • Your personal feelings (things like “I think I got him” or “I’m gonna shoot him down” or “Come on you Jerry bastard, die! Die! Die!” or “I see you… I see something… I see a house… I see a butterfly… I see a unicorn… ”)


    • Of course, you can’t always maintain strict radio discipline at all times. It’s a game, and we’re here to have fun. But some efforts to keep comms clear are to be expected during squadron events like “Storm of War” or big wing nights.

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  8. #36
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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    I always play on the public channel and have very little problem with channel congestion. Even with a large number of speakers, I think we show pretty good radio discipline. Problems usually occur when one or two players try to monopolize the conversation so that's when I use the mute feature, and then only very rarely.

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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    Lol Fidget....
    Wally Cox!!!!
    I've always said you sound like Tom Bodett!
    Thank you for this tutorial from the flight deck.

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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    Thank yew fer yore support. We'll keep the light on for ya!
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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    Here's some current sources for common terms used in aviation borrowed from Reaper 01. Please note their sources... not all would apply to 1940's Battle of Britain.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multis...l_brevity_code

    http://fas.org/man/dod-101/usaf/docs/mcm3-1-a1.htm
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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    I would like to ask...

    3 planes are in a line (enemys or friends)

    I am at the end of the line (no3 plane)

    How do you call this (line)

    can I say (I am no3 in convoy)... is it correct or it is not ???

    and...

    I am with te enemy (face to face)... can I call this (Hean on !!! Head on !!!) ???

    .

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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by sw1ive View Post
    I would like to ask...

    3 planes are in a line (enemys or friends)

    I am at the end of the line (no3 plane)

    How do you call this (line)

    can I say (I am no3 in convoy)... is it correct or it is not ???

    and...

    I am with the enemy (face to face)... can I call this (Hean on !!! Head on !!!) ???
    If the 3 planes are one behind the other, and you are the last in line, you are the TRAILER. You are trailing behind as it were.

    When you are face to face you can indeed say you're Head On...or Nose On or High Aspect.

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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by sw1ive View Post
    I would like to ask...

    3 planes are in a line (enemys or friends)

    I am at the end of the line (no3 plane)

    How do you call this (line)

    can I say (I am no3 in convoy)... is it correct or it is not ???

    and...

    I am with te enemy (face to face)... can I call this (Hean on !!! Head on !!!) ???

    .
    I think I misread your post but since I wrote all this stuff, I'll leave it here...

    FIRST QUESTION: Three planes in a side-by-side line close to each other is usually an echelon formation. If the leader is on the right, the formation is an "echelon left". If leader is on the left it is an echelon right formation. You would be "number three" in this echelon.

    Except for very gentle corrections, echelon turns are always conducted away from the wingmen because the wingmen do not maintain normal fingertip position references in turns. Instead, all wingmen roll with lead, maintaining the same geometric plane of flight. A wingman will end up looking "Up" at the belly of the guy in front of him, instead of looking over at his wingtip and cockpit. Every one should see the wing root (or some similar part of the airplane) of the man in front of him "on the horizon" during the echelon turn. Different planes will present different viewpoints. It's hard to explain... you have to see it!

    Echelon is the formation used to navigate in the traffic pattern, so an echelon right is set up before making left turns to initial for a pitchout, or final approach for a wing landing. It's also the pre-attack formation when preparing to "peel off" for ground strafing. Echelon takes considerable practice to get right for both lead and the wingmen.

    Three planes next to each other, not necessarily close, is whatever the leader designates it to be. Fingertip with a "Phantom" number two (although I've never seen it) is possible, "Route" position for doing inflight checklists is an option, "Tactical" procedures may apply for four ship gaggles and I'm sure the fighter and bomber guys can address more permutations.

    In all formation operations, it's the briefing in preflight and clear commands or signals from the leader that tell well trained wingmen what they are supposed to do throughout the mission. I hope this helps. There are good resources for formation flying on the web.

    QUESTION #2: (Help me out here, fighter guys...) "Head On" sounds good to me. Also "Nose to nose" and other terms say the same thing. The most common terms involve bodily excretion processes and unholy blasphemies I won't go into.+
    Last edited by Baffin; Jun-17-2015 at 08:32. Reason: Spelling
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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    Fidget buddy you wrote "Every one should see the wing route (or some similar part of the airplane) of the man in front of him "on the horizon" during the echelon turn."

    It's a b*tch getting old isn't it?

    Edit: for the non-aviators, Fidget meant wing root. I was just bustin' his chops. But back in the day when he taught this stuff whilst flying the T-38, we aligned an engine intake of the airplane we were flying off of, with the horizon.
    Last edited by busdriver; Jun-15-2015 at 20:50.

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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    sure...

    if I see 3 spitfires (Three planes in a side-by-side line) I am sure, the are three wingmens

    more times (in ATAG server) I see...

    one spitfire, back of him one BF-109, back of him one spitfire, and back of him, my BF-109 (me no4 plane)

    my wingman: I lost you... were are you
    me: I am in convoy
    my wingman: ok I see them, who are you
    me: I am no4 plane
    my wingman: I am coming, who is the enemy
    me: enemy is no1 and no3

    is this dialogue correct ???
    is this word (comvoy) correct ???

  17. #45
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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    If you are able to explain/describe your situation, then you are painting a picture or building SA (situational awareness) for your wingman. And in this case, if you were able to get your wingman's eyes on you, then your dialogue is fine.

    But...typically when native English speaking players hear "convoy" they will think you're down over a convoy of ships in the Channel. If you are paired with non-native English speaker, "convoy" just might work for that player. If I was paired with you, then I'm pretty sure I'd figure out your banter. And you would probably figure out what I meant if I described your situation as:

    "I'm feet dry (or feet wet) in a left/right hand descending/climbing turn behind two Spits and a One-oh-nine...padlocked (won't look away from my target) or blind (I don't see you) or visual (I see you)."

    Cheers

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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by sw1ive View Post
    sure...

    if I see 3 spitfires (Three planes in a side-by-side line) I am sure, the are three wingmens

    more times (in ATAG server) I see...

    one spitfire, back of him one BF-109, back of him one spitfire, and back of him, my BF-109 (me no4 plane)

    my wingman: I lost you... were are you
    me: I am in convoy
    my wingman: ok I see them, who are you
    me: I am no4 plane
    my wingman: I am coming, who is the enemy
    me: enemy is no1 and no3

    is this dialogue correct ???
    is this word (comvoy) correct ???
    The alternating succession of enemy - friend - enemy - friend is usually referred to on Teamspeak as "a conga line". But I don't think that is the proper military term.


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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    The alternating succession of enemy - friend - enemy - friend is usually referred to on Teamspeak as "a conga line". But I don't think that is the proper military term.
    That's the expression I use when making a PA to my passengers to describe the sight of too many airplanes queuing up for takeoff, and thus the reason for our delay. I think it makes perfect sense on TS.

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  22. #48
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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by busdriver View Post
    Fidget buddy you wrote "Every one should see the wing route (or some similar part of the airplane) of the man in front of him "on the horizon" during the echelon turn."

    It's a b*tch getting old isn't it?

    Edit: for the non-aviators, Fidget meant wing root. I was just bustin' his chops. But back in the day when he taught this stuff whilst flying the T-38, we aligned an engine intake of the airplane we were flying off of, with the horizon.
    Aging is not for the faint hearted!
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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    LKF (Little Known Fact):

    Feet Wet - In our game, this means flying over the water (No surprise here...), but many historians feel that the term did not exist during the Battle of Britain. but for those who do not use American English as a first language it has a number of different and varied usages. "Feet Wet" or "Feet Dry" as we use it in CLoD, stems from the US Navy Carrier-based Pilots' report that they were crossing into or out North Viet Nam during the "Rolling Thunder" bombing campaign of the mid 1960's. As a "really cool" term, it entered into general military use during the rest of the war, and has continued right up to the present.

    Civil aviation uses "Coast Out" or "Coast In" as synonymous, but as far as I know, it is still rather informal language.

    Other American uses of "Feet Wet" can mean:

    To get started in some endeavor. (Jump in and get your feet wet)

    One I never heard before:

    In military deception, an offensive action involving contact with the adversary conducted for the purpose of deceiving the adversary as to the location and/or time of the actual main offensive action.

    So, what it says in American English is not always what it appears to say to those of you who have not yet corrupted the Queen's English!

    Here's a treat for the all the colonials and blokes: http://www.travelfurther.net/dictionaries/
    Last edited by Baffin; Jan-27-2017 at 09:42.
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    Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    This is very helpful. Been reading a lot about basic radio procedures and techniques and you seem to cover them all up. Have you got some books to recommend?

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    Red face Re: Basic Radio Procedures and Techniques

    This is indeed very helpful, indeed a must-read for anyone interested in making their comms more efficient, more effective and above all, more enjoyable!


    I have been known to (and got in trouble at times for) becoming exceedingly verbose at times - particularly guilty of that whenever an excited rookie joins in the chatter so that it escalates... but I'm usually pretty embarrassed about it afterwards and feel pretty bad about it anytime it happens

    so at least to begin with, I lately start off with as clear-and-concise as I can muster, which has led to some interesting findings about a few CloD-specific "concessions" we seem to converge upon using...


    - first and foremost, I'll personally ALWAYS use the current, universal post-1956 phonetic alphabet -- it was developed for a good reason, and that was to integrate international usage minimizing the effects of language/accent barriers
    it may be historically incorrect, yes - but the RAF alphabet used at the time does not convey as clearly as the newer "version" - specially when your wingmates are very well scattered all over the globe like we are


    - I'll usually call my takeoff roll - unless I'm absolutely positive the runway is and shall remain clear for long enough that it doesn't matter -- I've been "taken-off into" in the past and it's a tad eh... inconvenient when it happens -- some close calls have happened too, specially when myself or the other plane doesn't call out he is "rolling"

    I also call my approaches and landings for that very same reason -- I've seen what happens when somebody neglects to do that and lands ON somebody else.... it was kinda hilarious then, but only 'cause it's a sim... in real life it'd be greatly less funny


    - For tactical callouts and other critical information I'll use the clearest brevity I can muster at the time (not always easy when your tail's on fire) -- I'll relax* my brevity in proportion to server emptiness and the "ebbs of mayhem" that sometimes allow us picking up a breath or two between "waves" of yellow-nosey doom

    *...sometimes too far, for which I once again apologize



    another key factor to consider - and part of the reason we overtalk each other so often:

    TEAMSPEAK HAS A SMALL DELAY BETWEEN TALKING AND BEING HEARD

    this delay is different (ping) for all of us, so one should be conscious of the fact that even if you don't sound overlapped on your side, others may still hear it as so -- this is more of a "keep in mind" notion tho -- we can't possibly try and enforce any effective rules here to address that fact (can you think of any?) - just be aware that it happens, and try to allow some headroom for it...



    and for courtesy, I will always relay the ingame callouts I get from ground control (whom for no apparent reason I've taken to calling "Rupert" in my head.... he sounds like a "Rupert") -- not all players get these callouts - it appears to be position-relative somehow, but the exact workings of it still confuddle me a bit

    so be a lad and let others in on your newly gained intel -- who knows, there might be a guy up at "Alpha-Juliet-Two-Zero; Angels 16!" who hasn't checked his tail in the last 5 mins and is about to have his cockpit ventilation greatly improved...





    fly safe out there and remember: the other '109 is just coming around your six! -- you just haven't spotted him yet!
    Rule of thumb: Every '109 has a wingman...

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