Not impressed

[Weasel]

I am new to CLOD and this server, but I have noticed something which i must comment on.
there is a distinct lack of red pilots and a lack of sportsmanship in the blue camp.
I understand that many pilots will not fly red because of the disadvantaged red plane set. I have just been on the server with 26 blue and 6 red. But why does a brave red pilot have to suffer the extra disadvantage of being attacked by 4 or more blues before he has even gained enough altitude to make any defence possible. After being mugged twice this way, I decided to give up and leave.

this server will soon become populated by nothing but blue vultures circling around each other waiting for a mug like me to try the server. the problem for the server is that the mug will not come back.

Weasel

[ATAG_Knuckles]

Hummmmmm (scratching his chin)


NEXT !!!!!


signature withheld

[ATAG_Snapper]

Hi Weasel and welcome to the ATAG Forum.

Sorry to hear that your introduction to the ATAG Server got off to a bad start. Vulching is permitted on this server, as laid out in the ATAG Mission Statement at the top of this forum. There are ways of turning a perceived bad situation into a positive one, however, and I say this as a Red pilot myself. If you continue spawning at a Coastal airfield, you are playing into the hands of the low-flying Blue pilots. The trick is to turn this aspect against them:

1) download & install Teamspeak 3. It's free, easy to use, and we're a friendly bunch. . Teamwork in harvesting vulchers is essential, and Teamspeak can work wonders here.

2) fly the Hurricane Rotol. Go full throttle with overboost and use your pitch lever to bring your rpms back to 2,500. You will be as fast as a 109.

3) get altitude: 5,000 feet minimum, but get yourself 2,000 feet above your adversary. (How do you get altitude when you're getting vulched on the ground? See (4) next)

4) get vulched once - shame on them. Get vulched twice - shame on you! Do NOT continue spawning at a Coastal airfield if it's being over run! Pick an inland airfield like Rochester which is usually very quiet. (Maidstone is too bumpy for my liking).

Once you take off from Rochester, set a course for the Coastal airfield that you were last vulched at. Via Teamspeak see if any like-minded Red pilots are interested in blood and have them join you enroute. Note where the sun is and plan your approach to that airfield so that the sun is over your shoulder. Get altitude -- even 12,000 feet is not too much -- sometimes the vulchers have one or two 109's flying high cover.

As you approach the coastal airfield keep an eye behind you frequently, but also look for the tiny dots below strafing the airfield. With a partner you can work as a team, making alternate dives while the other covers your six. This takes practice, plus in a dive you must reduce throttle and coarsen your pitch so you don't over rev your engine. Full deflection shooting is an acquired skill (of which I have very little), but don't allow yourself to get target fixated and lose all your energy trying to stay on your quarry's six -- hit or miss: ZOOM outta there!!! Shove your throttle and pitch levers forward and CLIMB back into the sun.

Rinse and repeat as necessary.

Just a few hints above. Hope you try them. Sportsmanship does not enter into it -- there are no rules in this server about not shooting an aircraft with wheels down, waggling its wings, badly damaged, or waving a white hanky.

Good luck and hope it goes better for you!

[MADDMANN]

Weasle, Don't give up yet.
Many a time iv'e seen 26 Red vs 8 blue. That number changes over the day/night team's high numbers for blue then high numbers for red.

As Snapper has already told you the obvious, Don't take off from front fields if u see any flak or know of reports of low enemy over your base. Its suicide and not a good option.

GET ON teamspeak.
Let your team m8's help you.

I also hope i don't suffer from the lack of sportsmanship.
I like to think i fly and play with honor. i have also known from TS the quality of the gents im lucky to wingup with in ATAG Team Speak.

Join the fun m8, Grab TS and work with your team.

I hope to see you in the Sky's
~S~

[ATAG_Septic]

Welcome Weasel. I feel your pain old chap but the great responses from the chaps above should set you in good stead.

It's one thing taking pot-shots over an airfield but surely it's not cricket to shoot at a chap whilst he's rolling his baccy?? Achaps completely defenceless whilst balancing baccy, papers and filter whilst attempting to do piloting. If this type of behaviour is allowed I will be using all my influence to introduce my answer; a multi-player pause key.

Forgive the hijack but this is an idea I've been working on a while. I've not properly thought it through yet but I envisage a system where a chap can press a pause key to roll his baccy, which will pause all those within say five miles of a chap's plane. This will need careful policing though as I suspect there are scoundrels out there who would press it in order to answer the telephone, feed the dog or even to talk with (more likely listen to) 'er indoors!! (I am assuming we're all agreed that topping-up the gin will also be allowed). So, I propose an honour system, which I'm confident will work. I would expect a chap to prepare at least two pre-flight smokes (dare not call them fags, the colonials seem to find the term amusing for some reason?) Anyhoo, I'm sure Bliss could code this in an evening so I'll ask him on all our behalf's.

Chin Chin and TTFN Chaps!

[ATAG_Snapper]

"rolling his baccy"? <Snapper scratching his head.....>

Oh wait! ROLLING A CIGARETTE!!!!! Gads, Septic, you had me wondering what you were going on about for a minute. LOL

But I think a multiplayer PAUSE button is a great idea! We have an 18-year old cat with kidney disease that was given 6 months to live three years ago. It invariably curls up in some deep recess of my computer room, only to wake up when she hears me yabbering away on Teamspeak. With hands on HOTAS and head wired up (me, not the cat) with headset/microphone/TrackClip Pro, this 5 lb bit of fluff insists on walking in front of the monitor, headbutting my TC Pro, walking behind my PC to test the USB cords, then jumping on my lap with its claws using my nuts as a #3 arrestor wire. All while I'm trying to finesse MK.MR.X. into a turning fight 3 feet above Wissant. And desperate to take a whiz. (How do the Kiwis say it? Have a slash?).

Yes, I think Bliss and Watchman should get right on it. Because I'M NOT IMPRESSED....

[ATAG_Bliss]

I am new to CLOD and this server, but I have noticed something which i must comment on.
there is a distinct lack of red pilots and a lack of sportsmanship in the blue camp.
I understand that many pilots will not fly red because of the disadvantaged red plane set. I have just been on the server with 26 blue and 6 red. But why does a brave red pilot have to suffer the extra disadvantage of being attacked by 4 or more blues before he has even gained enough altitude to make any defence possible. After being mugged twice this way, I decided to give up and leave.

this server will soon become populated by nothing but blue vultures circling around each other waiting for a mug like me to try the server. the problem for the server is that the mug will not come back.

Weasel

So let me get this straight. You're new to IL2COD yet you somehow know the characteristics of all the planes for both sides and you would know how uneven the planesets are? Hang on while I chuckle a bit. Are you new to flight simming as well?

Then you decide to take off near the front, get shot down, and say it's because of people being unsportsmanlike? I guess all the other airfields 10's to 100's of miles away where no enemies are ever at would be too tough to take off from?

Thanks for a great laugh.

[Doc]

Weasel welcome to ATAG!

We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets....

[Atreides]

Douglas Bader was in the RAF and he had 2 wooden legs....AND YOU GUYS WANT A PAUSE BUTTON????




Welcome to the forums by the way Weasel.

[ATAG_Colander]

Just disconnect your network cable, go and do whatever you need to do and plug it in when you get back!
Seems to work for about a minute

[ATAG_Snapper]

Hahaha! Perfect!

[MajorBorris]

Thats nothin Weasel, try getting shot in the face 8 times in a row after spawn in the fps games, personaly I love being outnumbered just for the tension alone.

Luckily we have other fields to spawn from and ts3 to team up(all it takes is one wingman) and respawn is an easy affair.

Most importantly though Weasel, dont give up after being straffed a couple times!

See ya in the air!

[Doc]

They are called The Few for a reason.

[335th_GRAthos]

@Snapper: re.#3 arrestor wire


@Weasel: Hi Weasel, yes it is frustrating a bit to be vulched. I feel I need to make a point however, ATAG server is a "full real" server: Here you will experience the maximum level of difficulty and complication in terms of engine management, navigation, air-combat.
Before entering a "full real" server, it is expected to excel in all these areas - except for the last ("air-combat"); You enter a full real server in order to prove that you excel in that!

ATAG made a magnifcent job (and the game itself of course helped) into creating a "full real" server with enough space to allow beginners to play in the same map as experts.

If you are a "mug" as you say, then you have to learn quickly to keep yourself out of trouble. Whether you die on the ground being straffed or, in the air 5min after take off, it changes little.
If your aim is to gain experience in online airplane flying, navigation, basic flight manouvers, aiming, advanced flight manouvers, team tactics, damage management etc etc etc [the list is endless] then the ATAG server is an ideal place to learn.
You can learn most of these things irrespectively whether you fly blue or red.
Two easy ways:
If you feel you must fly red, choose an airfield far away from the action and gain your experience.
If you believe that learning prevails above other priorities, just fly blue [at the particular situation you described]

The one thing that will defintively not work: If you (as a mug) try to select a plane in the middle of the action thinking that you will show the others [who have 100-200 flying hours experience more than you] how it's done - you will die mercilessly.

PS. I am not speaking in favour, nor against the vulchers. I just want to make the point that, it is possible, but only for an extremely good pilot to take off from an airfield that is being strafed - and live to tell about it.


@ATAG boyz: I do miss the SpitII. With just five of them, every preparation for attack was a challenge. Without them, every plane is a target - completely different attack mentality.

~S~

[SG1_Lud]

@ATAG boyz: I do miss the SpitII. With just five of them, every preparation for attack was a challenge. Without them, every plane is a target - completely different attack mentality.

~S~

+1

[ChiefRedCloud]

I must be odd (please don't ask my wife because she'll confirm this) but I find it challenging to try and get off the ground with all this going on, i.e. straffing and bombing. I also know that it can't go on forever. They (the BLUE) only have so many bullets or bombs. Then it's payback time.

Perhaps it's my mind set or perhaps I'm just old and stupid, but IT is suppose to be WAR not a pep rally, right?:inq:

And as for there being more Blue than Red, well I've noted people switching sides on a regular basis to TRY and even things out and I do this myself, except when I'm trying to learn a new aircraft.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Actually, you're not alone, CRC. Many of us have learned how to start up and warm our engines quickly, then do a full overboost take off and hug the terrain right under their noses. Then circle back grabbing alt along the way.

Not recommended for newbies, though.

To your other point: "If you want fair, go see your mama"

[Slingn]

I am confused about one thing. Granted, I'm not a 24/7 player, but every time i've been on the server, it always seems the reds out number the blues. Sometimes it's close in numbers, but often I see a big numbers advantage on the red side. Have I missed something? Is it really true the the blues have the better planes, and often more numbers? I always thought it was the other way around.

A

[Furious]

They (the BLUE) only have so many bullets or bombs. Then it's payback time.

Yeah, twice as many as red lol

[Doc]

It's never even numbers either side and what plane is an opinion. What matters most is what your opinion is about the plane you fly. Which one is that? And why?

[ChiefRedCloud]

Yeah, twice as many as red lol

Well there you go ..... WE should have never allowed another country (in this case Germany) to not comply with the EWC (Equal War Clause). You can only have the SAME of everything and nothing more ...... Yes that is sarcasim .... I didn't know how else to answer this comment.

Look, seriously, I and everyone here has issues on things in this sim and I am more than certain that Bliss and ATAG would love it IF things were always balanced, but they're not. They/We work with what we have (in this case with CloD) and enjoy that for what it is.

And ocassionaly we do not see eye to eye on things, but IF you want to fly CloD, I do not feel you'll find a better server than ATAG. :inq:

[Furious]

Sorry Chief, should have pointed out my comment was also sarcastic. And tongue-in-cheek...

PS: sarca SIM, was that a pun? if so its a very good one

I know all about the EWC you talk about... (minensuchenboot, IIa...) ok I'll stop...

[Badger]

ATAG_Septic, says, "Surely it's not cricket to shoot." You're just plain ole mean. It's bad enough the poor little crickets are used as bait and eaten by fish, caught and kept in jars for days on end by children everywhere, now you have to come along and start shooting them. When will the inhumanity end!!!!! :eek:

Badger

[Weasel]

Hi again

I obviously made a mistake by not reading the tin before opening it. Having flown for many years on servers where vulching was not allowed, it did not occur to me that it was allowed here.
Thank you for those who took the time to give me some useful advice. Now i know that I am in Dodge City i will wear my 6 gun.

As regards my smoking habbits, I only like to smoke Messerschmitts.

Actually what I was trying to do was point out what it looked like for the new and Uninitiated dipping there toe so to speak.

On my part I have not flown a sim for a few years but have been tempted back by this new sim.

Weasel

[Jimbop]

Lol at #6 snapper! Rochester is the cure to the OP's woes. I love vulchers - just respawn inland and you have guaranteed low energy targets.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Welcome back, Weasel!

Believe me, all of us have griped about some aspect of CoD on the server at some time, so you're in good company! :laugh1

You're right, strap on the sixguns, fire up Teamspeak, intro yourself as new to CoD but not to sims, and ask where everyone is spawning and where they're headed. I guarantee you'll find it a different place than your first visit!

Kudos for coming back here, mate.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Lol at #6 snapper! Rochester is the cure to the OP's woes. I love vulchers - just respawn inland and you have guaranteed low energy targets.

So true, Jimbop. The thing is, I saw myself in Weasel's place not so long ago, essentially saying, "WTF?". Remember how the Russian crew would just tag team each other and completely dominate an airfield? At first I resented their heavy handed tactics -- I wanted to intercept high-flying bombers & escorts, not get repeatedly vulched warming up my engine! We even had a member of the "Russian gang" (his term) come here and chide us for complaining -- that we should otherwise go play with our mothers' dolls (or some such). He also said that because of his Russian gang, we Red pilots would get better. I was madder than a wet hen! THAT'S what I was remembering when I read the OP.

Weasel "got it" far faster than I did. I fumed for days. And kept getting shot down on the ground or lifting off. Then decided, "Well, this ain't workin', what will?". I began watching what you other guys were doing. JTDawg gave me some technical pointers on the Rotol, best loadouts, etc. -- as did you others. Learned all the good stuff that has appeared on this thread (and still learning more). Even watched the Blue guys and absorbed a few things they were doing. Athos (a predominantly Blue pilot) examined one of my early guncam videos and PM'd his observations about the convergence effects -- or lack thereof -- with some helpful suggestions. Thanks again, mate! ) Flew a basic "combat spread" line abreast formation with Wolverine one evening -- got jumped twice by a 109 and Wolve brought each one down while directing me via Teamspeak which way to maneuvre so he could line 'em up.

I'm still learning. I still get shot down -- just not as much, now! LOL. Much as it pains me to say it, ol' Vit Unit was 100% right; I've gradually become a better pilot under fire. Good thing in a sim we can respawn, eh? :laugh1

So I'm hoping Weasel reads this and joins us online. He also brings experience from other sims that may well be brought to bear here. Weasel -- it only gets better from here on!

Snapper

[ATAG_Septic]

Hi again

I obviously made a mistake by not reading the tin before opening it. Having flown for many years on servers where vulching was not allowed, it did not occur to me that it was allowed here.
Thank you for those who took the time to give me some useful advice. Now i know that I am in Dodge City i will wear my 6 gun.

As regards my smoking habbits, I only like to smoke Messerschmitts.

Actually what I was trying to do was point out what it looked like for the new and Uninitiated dipping there toe so to speak.

On my part I have not flown a sim for a few years but have been tempted back by this new sim.

Weasel

Great to see you back Old Bean, and with a sound sense of humour too! I also returned to flight-sims recently and having found this one am glad I did after being only mildly entertained by Rise of Flight and DCS Warthog.

Your initial impressions on the server provide an important insight as many might join from a similar perspective and it would be a shame to lose them. Maybe it's not clear enough for a new user to the game/server when they join for the first time. I suspect though many of us are guilty of clicking to the cockpit as soon as possible when there's a new sim to play with and sod the briefings.

There's also a frustration for some, often vented in game chat, when there are so many differences to the previous sim in the series but I don't know how this can be addressed.

I believe we might loose a few casual players this way, which might harm sales and therefore development but I don't know how they can be encouraged to absorb the likely environment on the server better before they enter?

Thankfully most who love a flight-sim will persevere with this one as you have!

Chin Chin and thanks again for the feedback,

Septic

[ChiefRedCloud]

Hi again

I obviously made a mistake by not reading the tin before opening it. Having flown for many years on servers where vulching was not allowed, it did not occur to me that it was allowed here.
Thank you for those who took the time to give me some useful advice. Now i know that I am in Dodge City i will wear my 6 gun.

As regards my smoking habbits, I only like to smoke Messerschmitts.

Actually what I was trying to do was point out what it looked like for the new and Uninitiated dipping there toe so to speak.

On my part I have not flown a sim for a few years but have been tempted back by this new sim.

Weasel

This is indeed needed in CloD. I.e. A good place to learn to fly it. ATAG has done their level best to accomplish this simply by trying to be there to help any new pilots in their efforts to get-off-the-ground. However, as you well know, it's a mixed bag at best.

Over at New Wings, which incidently is NOT a CloD community server at this time (it's Rise of Flight) we are looking at trying to fill this gap with voluteer training for anyone flat new to CloD. However this is a future project that we can not address at this time.

Perhaps others will come forward and act on this idea before we can do so. If so, fantasitic. Till then, as I've mentioned above, ATAG is your best bet, that I know of, to learn and enjoy CloD.

[ATAG_Snapper]

You make some excellent points IMHO, Septic.

Like most of us, I'm sure, when we first install CoD we first try a couple of the quick missions just to figure out how to start up the engine. Next we wander over to Multiplayer, curse at the not-very-intuitive GUI, then.....in a few random clicks.....find our selves abruptly spawning into the middle of a Full Realism, Full Switch Holy War! Five seconds later: "Red pilot Snapper flying a Spitfire Ia killed on the ground by Blue pilot Kutchercockoff flying a Bf 109 E3". Again and again! LOL

Bliss has laid things out beautifully in his well-crafted Mission Statement at the top of this Forum. New-to-CoD pilots probably don't see it, though, unless they have Weasel's perseverance to come here, make themselves known, absorb some character-building flak and figure things out. I know I've seen occasional angry chat messages from new pilots, unfortunately they log off before I'm finished shooting down MK.MR.X. and his three wingmates........

This calls for a General ATAG Meeting and three cases of beer. :Grin:

Perhaps we can put some of the salient points of the Mission Statement (with link to the actual post) at the start of the GUI's Mission Briefing. Pass me a beer!