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Thread: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

  1. #61
    Supporting Member TWC_SLAG's Avatar
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    My Bitdefender software said there was malware in the zip file. I know some of these security packs are sometimes overly protective. Has anyone downloaded this zip file and then had a problem with malware?

    If not, I want to try it.

    Thanks,

    badfinger

    Quote Originally Posted by DUI View Post
    Hi fellow pilots,

    Did you ever wonder if you really can see contacts in TFCliffs worse than other pilots? Here is a small single player mission that might help you to find out.
    Of course, besides from supporting with monitor calibration (brightness, contrast, gamma) the mission also helps to quickly check if/how SweetFX and other software-based adjustments influence the contact visibility.

    Instructions:
    1. Download this zip-archive,
    2. extract the three files to your missions-directory in "...\Documents\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover - MOD\missions\Single",
    3. start up TFCliffs and choose in "Single Player/Single Mission" the mission "Contact Spotting".
    4. Directly after you have spawned in the plane (109) pause the game (default: "p") and
    5. choose the pre-defined 30° zoom-view (default: "Delete").
    6. Now count the contacts that you somehow can see in the area left to your plane's gunsight - as tiny and bright the pixel may be.

    In total there are up to 16 contacts (Spitfires) that are positioned in 1 km steps from a distance of 1 km to 16 km.

    On my screen I can see 14 of the 16 contacts somehow (see attached image):


    In a real flight situation I probably "only" would have some realistic chance to see 11 contacts (meaning contacts up to a distance of 11 km against this bright-blue sky).

    So, someone more/less?
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  2. #62
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Badfinger, I recently downloaded and opened the mission file with no bad effect--computer is still fine. I am using Microsoft Security Essentials and scanned with any positive results.

    But to the topic at hand.

    I have tested this a bit and find that any sort of AA reduces the ability to see the most distant contacts. I tested DSR (nVidia) in that past, was pleased, but returned to test it more thoroughly. Its big advantage for me is that it greatly reduces all shimmering artifacts and it has a smoothing feature which applies AA more effectively than anything else I've seen. Unfortunately, it renders the most distant contacts nearly invisible and adds a twinkling effect to the more distant contacts.

    My best results are simply running at 1080 with no AA.

  3. #63
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    I can't remember this thread..I must have been away or something...missed the radar...but what a great thread and OP by DUI....Excellent DUI..~S~
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  5. #64
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    I have a 50 inch 1080p tv set at 1360x768 res. I can't see any of the planes.

    Last edited by TWC_Pilotlight; Jul-19-2015 at 18:55. Reason: Edit: NM. Got it. I see 10 or 11 depending on how hard I stare.

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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Are you in the air when you spawn in pilotlight ?
    It takes an airplane to bring out the worst in a pilot.
    ((dB)) youTube Channel

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    Student Pilot Shamrock's Avatar
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Quote Originally Posted by hnbdgr View Post
    I think people need to be aware that if that they ought to use the same rcu file as the server uses if they want to check this appropriately. Otherwise if you're checking with default or customized settings you will see not enough dots or all of them which might be unrealistic. Does someone have the values for the server RCU?

    EDIT: not URL, RCU. words hard they are
    What/where is the RCU file ? and what do you modify it to ?

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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Shamrock, have a look at the second post in this link http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...964#post151964

  9. #68
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    i have a 1080p ips 27' monitor
    in the test i can see 12 contacts...

    i have a gtx970 and i'm thinking to go g-sync and get a 2k monitor
    looking at this right now...
    144hz g-syinc 2k ips monitor
    http://www.amazon.com/Acer-XB270HU-b...s=Acer+XB270HU

    what i'm wondering...
    will i be able to spot smaller dots with a higher resolution monitor???
    any experience/suggestion in this regard???

  10. #69
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Just a quick post indicating the difference of bigger monitors/screens vs smaller ones:

    1: GTX960 with 40 inch tv monitor= 5 clearly visible planes plus 9 very clearly visible dots.Inspecting a bit closer another 2 dots visible.
    2: GTX960 with 23 inch pc monitor= 5 clearly visible planes only.1 dot when inspecting closer.All other distant contacts (10) not visible in any case.
    3: GTX980 with 24 Inch pc monitor= 5clearly visible planes plus 2-3 dots when inspecting closer.All other distant contacts (8) not visible in any case.

    The above experiment conducted with NVIDIA DSR engaged and ClOD resolution setting @2880x1620 in all 3 occasions.
    Settings in NVIDIA control panel similar in each case.

    It seems that the big difference,especially in very high resolution settings (over 1920x1080) comes with bigger screens,not absolutely with stronger GPU's.Best combination would definitely be a powerful GPU (to nicely handle ultra high resolution settings and everything associated) with a big monitor (to aid in pixel aka contact spotting).

    Reducing ClOD resolution settings back to its native 1920x1080, both GTX960 and GTX980 GPU's (case #2 & 3 from above) showed 5 clearly visible planes plus 5 clearly visible dots and another 2-3 more distant contacts when examined more closely and carefully.Reverting back to 2880x1620 and almost all contacts except the 5 closer planes were gone once more.The guy with the bigger screen maintained the same visual contacts no matter what his resolution setting was.

    Cheers,
    Nick.
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  12. #70
    Combat pilot EAF51_Jimmi's Avatar
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Quote Originally Posted by fly4ever View Post
    Just a quick post indicating the difference of bigger monitors/screens vs smaller ones:

    1: GTX960 with 40 inch tv monitor= 5 clearly visible planes plus 9 very clearly visible dots.Inspecting a bit closer another 2 dots visible.
    2: GTX960 with 23 inch pc monitor= 5 clearly visible planes only.1 dot when inspecting closer.All other distant contacts (10) not visible in any case.
    3: GTX980 with 24 Inch pc monitor= 5clearly visible planes plus 2-3 dots when inspecting closer.All other distant contacts (8) not visible in any case.

    The above experiment conducted with NVIDIA DSR engaged and ClOD resolution setting @2880x1620 in all 3 occasions.
    Settings in NVIDIA control panel similar in each case.

    It seems that the big difference,especially in very high resolution settings (over 1920x1080) comes with bigger screens,not absolutely with stronger GPU's.Best combination would definitely be a powerful GPU (to nicely handle ultra high resolution settings and everything associated) with a big monitor (to aid in pixel aka contact spotting).

    Reducing ClOD resolution settings back to its native 1920x1080, both GTX960 and GTX980 GPU's (case #2 & 3 from above) showed 5 clearly visible planes plus 5 clearly visible dots and another 2-3 more distant contacts when examined more closely and carefully.Reverting back to 2880x1620 and almost all contacts except the 5 closer planes were gone once more.The guy with the bigger screen maintained the same visual contacts no matter what his resolution setting was.

    Cheers,
    Nick.
    Ty 4 the update!
    Cool info!!

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  14. #71
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    I tried this yesterday and couldn't see a bean....It took me an hour to figure out that my aircraft was airborne and should have been on the airstrip...Only when I saw the icons of the Spits below me did I figure so started the mission again and did this..

    dB had the same issue...

    Before starting the mission go into 'Custom'..then 'Realism Options'....and check All the 'Visual aides' and check 'Mission Take-Off and Landing'...

    DUI.....Can you please add this to your initial post...I think its important to save them a lot of time if their mission is not setup like this when they spawn...

    I'll PM you on this too....
    Last edited by ATAG_Lewis; Mar-19-2016 at 12:50.
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    Supporting Member DUI's Avatar
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Thanks Lewis! This helpful information is added to the original post now!

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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Thanks DUI...~S~
    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.'' - Bertrand Russell
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    This is a very useful thread. I could see 12 of them, and now 14, by bumping the sharping up a bit, anything over 80% starts looking bad elsewhere in the game though not sure if I can do any better with 1080p 27" monitor and GTX 660 Ti

    I'd hazard a guess though a 40" 4K monitor rolled back to 1080 for the game might help, if not possibly the smaller pixels of the 4K screen might make the gauges and stuff smother looking.

    One of these days I'm going to drag the case ot the 55" 4k TV to each other and look.


    Thanks for posting.

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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Okey dokey...

    Having messed about with A TV and reverted back to my monitor i thought I'd share this in regard to (some if not all?!) Asus screens.

    Asus have a setting in the screen settings called "vividpixel"
    I guess it's sharpness.... but Asus decided to make it sharpness(tm) and give is a stupid name.

    Anyway...

    I'm now running (after much messing about) with completely standard settings in the standard profile.

    If I set vividpixel to 100% the contacts on the contact spotting mission are sharper. I don't think massively.... but.... they are definately a bit sharper.

    If I come out of game and open up say Excel it looks horrid with a sort of faint line around each box... set vivid pixel to 0 and it looks nice again.

    The standard setting is 25 by the way.

    0% looks good for text baseed applications

    100% seems to give the plane contacts that extra little "POP"

    Can't see a way to switch easliy beteen these two settings.... but figured I' share none the less.


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    Supporting Member MightyBouff's Avatar
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    I've been struggling with spotting so thought I'd do this test. Can see 11 contacts so clearly its me, just need to practice!
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    Manual Creation Group 343KKT_Kintaro's Avatar
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Quote Originally Posted by DUI View Post
    Hi fellow pilots,

    Did you ever wonder if you really can see contacts in TFCliffs worse than other pilots? Here is a small single player mission that might help you to find out.
    Of course, besides from supporting with monitor calibration (e. g. brightness, contrast, gamma, sharpness) the mission also helps to quickly check if/how SweetFX and other software-based adjustments influence the contact visibility.

    Instructions:
    1. Download this zip-archive,
    2. extract the three files to your missions-directory in "...\Documents\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover - MOD\missions\Single",
    3. start up TFCliffs and choose in "Single Player/Single Mission" the mission "Contact Spotting" *.
    4. Directly after you have spawned in the plane (109) pause the game (default: "p") and
    5. choose the pre-defined 30° zoom-view (default: "Delete").
    6. Now count the contacts that you somehow can see in the area left to your plane's gunsight - as tiny and bright the pixels may be.

    In total there are up to 16 contacts (Spitfires) that are positioned in 1 km steps from a distance of 1 km to 16 km.

    On my screen I somehow can see 14 of the 16 contacts (see attached image):


    In a real flight situation I probably "only" would have some realistic chance to see 11 contacts (meaning contacts up to a distance of 11 km against this bright-blue sky).

    So, someone more/less?

    * Note - thanks to ATAG_Lewis: The 109 that you spawn in should be standing on the ground. If you spawn in an already airborne plane you have to adapt your "realism settings":
    Before starting the mission go into 'Custom'..then 'Realism Options'....and check All the 'Visual aides' and check 'Mission Take-Off and Landing'...

    Hi DUI. Please note the following thread in the official IL-2 forums: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic...tting-mission/

    As you can see BOO is asking for a working link for this mission of yours, "Contact Spotting". I tried myself the link you gave back in 2014 and, indeed, the original link is not working ( http://jagdgeschwader4.de/media/kune...t-spotting.zip ). Would you kindly update the link (or produce a new link) so that the the mission is again available? Thank you in advance!

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  26. #78
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Quote Originally Posted by 343KKT_Kintaro View Post
    Hi DUI. Please note the following thread in the official IL-2 forums: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic...tting-mission/

    As you can see BOO is asking for a working link for this mission of yours, "Contact Spotting". I tried myself the link you gave back in 2014 and, indeed, the original link is not working ( http://jagdgeschwader4.de/media/kune...t-spotting.zip ). Would you kindly update the link (or produce a new link) so that the the mission is again available? Thank you in advance!
    Hi Kintaro,

    there's an 'official' recent version by Team Fusion based on the work of DUI here: Team Fusion Simulations - Resources - Contact Spotting.

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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    That's great Artist! Thank you mate.

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  30. #80
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    There is another way to test contact spotting that I recently discovered, it is not as quick and easy as the 2 calibration missions we have but it is more accurate I believe. It entails going to the TWC Practice Server and flying around for a 5 to 10 minute time until a contact is spotted. That's it…. Done.

    For those of you that want more details read on. The Practice Server has Icons turned on, so you will have to have them turned ON in your game as well. The icons can go out a long way on this server I am guessing 25 km, but only if you can see them, in other words I could not see the Icon Label until I could see the dot. Presently my system gives me contacts beginning at 18km and in and this is at the most open view setting. Granted the dot at 18km is very small and would not have been seen without the label but it is a reference. This is the second PC I have tested, the first was showing icons out to 22km. The interesting thing is that the Icon labels on both PC’s did not pop into view at these distances until I could see the tiny dot. I will be interested to hear from others about this icon detection behavior for them as I am not 100% sure I have it right.

    The contacts are AI generated random missions, thous the need to spend some time flying. Use what ever contract spotting tools you have such as their Radar Map, watching and listening for the announcer calling out contacts, etc. Once you have a contact you can try to fly away from it while looking at the dot and the distance label.

    For those of you that wonder why seeing a tiny dot at 18 km vs say 14 km is important it is because that same dot at 10km is bigger and brighter and will be seen easier IMO.

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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Im content with noticing anything out to 8km to be honest. I can dot spot out to perhaps 10 or 12 km with a fair wind.

    8km and a little care in everything else like energy and alt is good enough for me to decide if descretion is the better part of valour. It usually is. Im a lover not a fighter.
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Quote Originally Posted by BOO View Post
    Im content with noticing anything out to 8km to be honest. I can dot spot out to perhaps 10 or 12 km with a fair wind.

    8km and a little care in everything else like energy and alt is good enough for me to decide if descretion is the better part of valour. It usually is. Im a lover not a fighter.
    Type mp_dotrange in the console (shift tab) and check your visibility range for the dots, then type it again followed by 20 and see if you can see more. This affects visibility offline too.
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Quote Originally Posted by 9./JG52_J-HAT View Post
    Type mp_dotrange in the console (shift tab) and check your visibility range for the dots, then type it again followed by 20 and see if you can see more. This affects visibility offline too.
    theres a series of things to type in per the instuctions in thre birefing - following those I can see 14 with a strain, 12 with a squint and 10 with a glance. My question now is why do I see more with this console witchcraft? Will I see more if I do that in a MP server? Can I do that in a MP server? Was the milkman really my dad? Lots of questions.
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Judging from your photo on the left, I'd say the Milkman was not your dad. Now back to contact spotting. The MP Dot Range settings that you enter only effects Single player, the max dot range on servers in Multiplayer is set at the server level. An example of this is that when I use the Contract Spotting Single Mission at home I can only see all 16 contracts using the higher magnification view settings, I have my Dot Range set to the max which I am told is 25. On some servers I can not see contracts at that distance, an example for me is the VCAF server, I have a had time seeing contacts on that server.

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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Quote Originally Posted by BOO View Post
    theres a series of things to type in per the instuctions in thre birefing - following those I can see 14 with a strain, 12 with a squint and 10 with a glance. My question now is why do I see more with this console witchcraft? Will I see more if I do that in a MP server? Can I do that in a MP server? Was the milkman really my dad? Lots of questions.
    As Little Bill said.

    But also see Notes on IL2 Strumovik Cliffs of Dover, the chapter about the Console and the Server Administrator's Manual linked therein.

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    Supporting Member 9./JG52_J-HAT's Avatar
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    Re: The Men Who Stare at Pixels

    Quote Originally Posted by BOO View Post
    theres a series of things to type in per the instuctions in thre birefing - following those I can see 14 with a strain, 12 with a squint and 10 with a glance. My question now is why do I see more with this console witchcraft? Will I see more if I do that in a MP server? Can I do that in a MP server? Was the milkman really my dad? Lots of questions.
    The other parameters are for the labels. If you type how I wrote you will be able to check and change the range for the dots. The rest is only relevant if you use labels and want to customize them.
    MP is server side only, as already stated.
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