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Thread: Tutorial -- How to let the A.I regain control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110

  1. #1
    xvii-Hardegen
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    Tutorial -- How to let the A.I regain control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110

    Introduction

    As you know when you take control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110 and then you return to the pilot position the rear gunner will not fire anymore by himself nor he will not spot \ report anymore incoming enemy contacts due to the fact that the game consider the player as occupying both positions on the aircraft.
    I've finally found a way to let the A.I ( Artificial Intelligence ) regain control of the rear gunner bringing him to fire the rear machine gun and spotting \ reporting incoming enemy contacts by himself as when you spawn in the aircraft for the first time.
    Here is the procedure about how to do it.


    How to let the A.I regain control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110 step by step instructions

    - First of all go to in-game Options menu
    - Then click on " Controls Options "
    - Then select the sub-menu " View "
    - Once there scroll down until you'll find these two controls: " Next Manned Position " and " External View " ( The upper one of the two available,the one close to the " Next Manned Position key "
    - Assign to both a key following your preferences.
    As you can see in the reference image below I have assigned " Joystick+Key 6 " to " Next Manned Position " ( one of the keys that I have on my joystick ) and " Mouse 5 " to " External View " ( Note that I'm using a 5 buttons mouse ).
    Before proceeding with the instructions it's crucial to know what these two keys will do once used in the game.
    The " Next Manned Position " key must be used when you want manually take control of the selected aircraft position ( Pilot or Rear Gunner ) and change between them.
    Note,and this is very important,that when you will use this key to change between aircraft positions the rear gunner will be not controlled anymore by the A.I ( Artificial Intelligence ) if you will return to the Pilot position ( he will not fire anymore by himself nor he will not spot and report incoming enemy contacts ).
    I use this key only when I have an enemy contact clearly in sight on my six after the rear gunner calls out ( when he's still A.I controlled ) to shoot at the incoming enemy aircraft.
    I use manually the rear gunner position due to the fact that, until the rear gunner is under A.I control, his aim is very imprecise ( most of the times he will just waist bullets without hitting anything ).
    When under A.I control the rear gunner is just useful as " Spotter " of enemy contacts ( but this is a very useful feature to spot unnoticed enemy contacts, his calls out saved me many times ).
    The " External View " key, instead, must be used when you want to change between pilot and rear gunner position keeping the rear gunner controlled by the A.I.
    Note that this key must be NOT USED when you are in the pilot position or the A.I will take the complete control of the aircraft forcing you to re-spawn in another aircraft.
    This key must be used ONLY when you are in the rear gunner position and you want to go back to the pilot one keeping the rear gunner under A.I control!

    Reference Image


    How do I know if I've done it correctly and the rear gunner is under A.I control?

    To check if you have done all correctly and the rear gunner is under A.I control is very easy.
    Here there are the instructions, step by step, how to do it.

    - Once you joined a server spawn in a new aircraft
    - Once spawned press the " Esc" key one time without changing aircraft position ( you should be in the pilot position when spawned for the first time )
    - This will bring you to the Briefing - Client menu
    - On the right side of it, beside the mission map, you'll notice that it's displayed a list of the players participating to the mission
    - Search for your name
    - You will notice that your name, beside the pilot position, is highlighted in red ( as you can see in the reference image below ).
    This means that actually you are controlling just the pilot position and that the rear gunner is controlled by the A.I. ( Reference: Pilota = Pilot \ Mitragliere = Rear Gunner ).

    - Now click on " Fly " button and return to your aircraft
    - Once you are again in the pilot position press one time the key you have assigned to the " Next Manned Position ".
    You will be moved to the rear gunner position.
    - Once done press again the " Esc " key on your keyboard to return to the Briefing - Client menu
    - As before, in the players list, search for your name
    - You will notice that now, beside the pilot and rear gunner position, ( Reference: Pilota = Pilot \ Mitragliere = Rear Gunner ) your name is highlighted in red on both aircraft positions as you can see in the reference image below.
    This means that the game consider you as occupying both aircraft positions at the same time so your rear gunner, once you will return to the pilot position, will not fire and will not spot\report enemy contacts anymore.

    - Now click on " Fly " button and return to your aircraft
    - Move to the pilot position using the " Next Manned Position " key you have assigned
    - Once in the pilot position click one time again on the " Next Manned Position " key you have assigned to move to the rear gunner position
    - This time, instead of pressing the " Next Manned Position " key as we you have done before, press one time the " External View " key you have assigned
    - Once done you'll notice that you will be moved again to the pilot position.
    This time doing so, somehow, you are controlling just the pilot and the rear gunner, instead, is returned under A.I control ( he will fire and will not spot\report enemy contacts by himself ).
    In fact if you will press again the " Esc " key to return to the Briefing - Client menu you will notice that now your name is highlighted in red just beside the pilot position as when you spawned for the first time! ( Reference: Pilota = Pilot \ Mitragliere = Rear Gunner )


    How to do it in brief

    - If you want to control manually your rear gunner ( no A.I control at all ) use always the " Next Manned Position " key you have assigned to move between aircraft positions ( rear gunner not firing or spotting\reporting enemy contacts by himself )

    - If you want the rear gunner controlled by A.I when you'll occupy the pilot position ( rear gunner firing or spotting\reporting enemy contacts by himself ) move to the rear gunner position using the " Next Manned Position " key you have assigned and once there press one time the " External View " key you have assigned to return to pilot position ( so the rear gunner will be under A.I control )

    Remember: NEVER press the " External View " key you have assigned when you are in the pilot position or you'll completely abandon your aircraft!!! ( aircraft in full A.I control )
    Last edited by xvii-Hardegen; Jul-14-2016 at 08:22.

  2. #2
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    Re: Tutorial -- How to let the A.I regain control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110

    GREAT! Thank you. Stuka and Bf110 are now awaiting me

    Inviato dal mio KFTT utilizzando Tapatalk

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    Supporting Member 69th_Turn's Avatar
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    Re: Tutorial -- How to let the A.I regain control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110

    Thanks for taking the time to explain this, Hardegen. That makes the all those hints I've been hearing click into focus now.
    Long Live Team Fusion.
    Long Live ATAG.
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  6. #4
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    Re: Tutorial -- How to let the A.I regain control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110

    This post was very helpful to me in trying to figure out why AI gunners would not fire. However, the original poster (OP), Hardegen, misses a few important points in my opinion based on my own testing. First, the "External View" event or function (default alt-F2) was not initally working for me despite the key being set correctly in game. Realism settings can disable this function. Go to the Realism menu, and under the "Aircraft Switching" options, uncheck all of the realism options here (but especially the first three I believe).

    Next, it does not really seem to matter how you jump between the different positions of the aircraft. The OP just focuses on one technique using the Next Manned Position key but there are also other methods to go to specific positions in the plane and how you choose to jump around does not matter. Really, the only critical point here is that you need to hit the External View key (default alt-F2) to return to the pilot's position and return gunnery control to the AI.

    Your persona can only be in two positions maximum in the plane. So if you are in a bomber like a HE-111, switching from one gunner position to the next will restore AI control to the previous position. The OP had a good point that you can go online and see what two positions you may be occupying at the same time and I recommend testing this to get a feel for how it all works. Hitting External View will make you just occupy the pilot's position only.

    That you can lose control of your airplane if you hit External View key <alt-f2> while being a pilot is completely whacked. At least for offline, you can hit the "Take Control of selected AI Aircraft" (default alt-F1) to regain control. Also, it was very confusing that there is another "External View" key (default F2, see picture above) that takes you to an outside view of your own plane. Why do these two very different functions have the same name!?!
    Last edited by limbo696; Sep-22-2016 at 11:35.

  7. #5
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    Re: Tutorial -- How to let the A.I regain control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110

    Limbo,

    In Controls > View (this picture: http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/u...dsSettings.png)

    Are two "External view' commands, this is one "It's CloD!" of the game (people cal "bug", "Gremlins", I say original dev's inattention... water under the bridge).
    Read this in this way:

    1st External view = Leave aircraft control for AI.
    2nd External view = External view camera.

    If you use the first command, leaving aircraft control for AI, to take aircraft control again is need use the command (too in View):

    "Take Control of selected AI Aircraft".

    Both commands are "Realism" dependent, in Aircraft Switch none of the options (Cannot Switch...) can be ticked.

    If instead use "Next manned position" to change between pilot > gunner and vice-versa, you use 'Manned position #1, #2" don't matter, will work in both ways.

    Important is understand how work, are more than one way to do this.

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    Re: Tutorial -- How to let the A.I regain control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110

    for the 110 "view" section in the control i use:

    C mapped to "next manned position"

    C plus a modifier (in my case a button on my stick but it could be shift or ctrl or whatever) mapped to the FIRST of the 2 "external views" immediately below the "next manned position"

    Hit C - im a gunner

    Hit C plus modifier - im the pilot and my AI is operational again..

    Cheers

    BOO
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    Supporting Member Gromit's Avatar
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    Re: Tutorial -- How to let the A.I regain control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110

    Great post, it's a shame they went all complicated with this when in the old 1946 you simply swapped seats and manned the gun with the mouse, I for one would like to see a return to a more simplistic control of rear gunners!

  11. #8
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    Re: Tutorial -- How to let the A.I regain control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110

    Thank, works with the 111 which has 6 positions.
    Damon

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    Re: Tutorial -- How to let the A.I regain control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110

    ... works with the 111 which has 6 positions.
    In bombers with more than 2 positions you don't need "leave the plane", just return to pilot position via bombardier position, what is more easy and fast to do than using BF 110 method.

    E.g. Top gunner > bombardier > pilot.

    Is need return through bombardier, and not Top gunner > pilot because the last 2 positions occupied by player is reserved for then, why that "jugglery" is required in BF 110 and Stuka.

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    Re: Tutorial -- How to let the A.I regain control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110

    This is a quite old post that I wrote when I was still a member of the previous unit at which I belonged at that time.
    In the case you need additional help or do you have additional questions about this argument feel free to contact me anytime at my " new " user profile ( Stab I./JG 51 - Mölders ) or replying here in this topic.

    Salute alles!!!
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  15. #11
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    Re: Tutorial -- How to let the A.I regain control of the rear gunner on the Bf 110

    This is a very worthy candidate to be included in Lewis's welcome guide (if not already) especially given the joy of the improved 110s that 4.5 promises.

    Relevant for the stuka to.

    Thanks Molders for putting this tutorial on.

    S!

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