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Thread: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

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    Manual Creation Group III./ZG76_Ezzie's Avatar
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    Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    G'day all,

    Over the past couple of weeks several people on TS have expressed an interest in learning how to fly the 110 so I thought I'd outline the approach i follow when flying the Bf-110. Plus my ping is crapped out today so I thought I spend my flying time writing this up while hoping that it gets better by the time i'm finished. Anyone else ever had a ping of 14000?

    Apart from a few bomber-variant sorties when i first started flying online in the ATAG server in Feb 14 I only fly it as a fighter so the following will only cover flying it as a fighter.

    And a disclaimer upfront - there are other more successful Bf-110 pilots such as Keller, Trademe, Hardgen and Karaya (I noticed he was racking up a nice score in a 110 recently - hoping he will post a video of it so i can learn some of his tips) who probably fly it in a different way. So pls dont view this post as the only, or best, way to fly the 110. It works for me, I have fun and I still get a real buzz when in it all comes together even after flying the 110 exclusively for 18 months, and I'm sharing it in case others might also enjoy it. TF did an excellent job in 'fixing' the 110s and the more regular 110 pilots there are the better imho.

    And another thing before i get going - If you like to get into action soon after taking off or enjoy being in the middle of a big furball shooting stuff down then what I'm about to outline probably wont be of much interest. But if you enjoy taking your time, stalking the enemy and taking the shot then egressing away at high speed then this might be of interest.

    So, if you are still reading here goes...

    Pre reading

    I'm going to assume you've read Chuck Owl's excellent manual on the 110 available on the ATAG forum. All you need to know is in there re the aircraft itself. There are also some other good guides i used listed below and I will assume you know how to start up, fly the aircraft and transfer fuel etc so wont cover that in this post.

    http://www.theairtacticalassaultgrou....php?id=bf110c

    http://www.raafsquad.com/cliffs/bf110/bf110Training.pdf

    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...ead.php?t=9007

    http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...ions_Me110.pdf


    And this report is a must if you want to find out some very useful info re strengths and weaknesses of the Bf-110 as described by actual RAF flight test chaps rather than internet 'experts' -

    http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...cal_Trials.pdf

    I will refer back to this several times later on.

    Aircraft selection and set up

    My order of preference when selecting which variant to fly is - C4N, C4N/derated, C4. I'm too lazy to spend much time with the C7 variants setting things up and the C2 doesnt have one of the very destructive 20mm round types. The main reason between the C4 variants is the auto prop pitch (again with the lazy) as its one less thing to concentrate on when things get busy. But I will still use manual PP in these variants in some situations as discussed later, and still enjoy and have success in the manual PP-only C4.

    I will always take of with a full fuel load (1270 litres or thereabouts) which gives me a flight time of around 2 1/2 hrs depending on variant. This is one of the 110's strengths and I aim to use it where i can - it can take a long time for a fuel tank to vent all its fuel after being holed for instance.

    Convergence - i set it up at 500m for front MGs and 20 mm and 500m for the rear gun. Its been so long since i did it i cant recall what the load out is but from memory its a mix of types along with a few tracer rnds. Again with the lazy re not exploring this more or messing with my convergence - the current set up seems to do the trick most times.

    Take off and climb out

    After a flapless take off i will engage auto pp in the usual manner and then set my oil and water rads to 50%. I will leave them here for the duration except if i have to shut down an engine and fly home - will open the remaining engine to fully open and close the shut down one to fully closed to reduce drag. Ive found that as long as i keep my airspeed above 300 km IAS and fly with the RPM and ATA on the continuous setting (the red tick mark on the dials closest to 12 oclock on the rpm and ATA gauge) then i wont have any temp issues. At this setting i can get to about 400 km IAS at ~ 4K in level flight using manual PP. If i have to i will increase RPM and ATA to the 30 minute or 5 minute setting and maybe get to 430 km but wont go this fast unless i have to (more later) as it then requires me to watch the gauges more closely.

    During climb out i will trim my aircraft and set the throttle to achieve a climb rate of 5 m/s and 350 km/h IAS. The C4 in manual PP will climb and fly a bit faster than the C4N in auto (which will climb at about 330-340 km/h when doing slightly less than 5m/s). Trim is very important in the 110 re getting max speed to I keep adjusting the trim to maintain these numbers and pretty much fly it hands free during the climb. Above 4.5K the auto PP struggles but i usually accept its lower performance as i climb.

    How high is high enough?

    I aim to enter my patrol area at no less than 6k. Flying the climb profile as described above it will take me ~ 25 minutes from take-off roll to reaching this height and if i select a suitable airfield i can be near my patrol area as i reach 6K. I learnt long ago to avoid taking off from airfields near the hot spots as the 110 is very vulnerable during climb out. So airfields away from the action are my preferred spawn points. At this height the C4 manual PP will comfortably cruise at 350 km IAS with full fuel whereas the C4N in auto will cruise at 310/320 km. As the aircraft gets lighter it will go slightly faster.

    Why 6K? - One of the things that stands out in the trials report is the relative performance of the 110 compared to the Spit and Hurri at altitude. At low altitude both the Spit and Hurri easily out turn the 110 but at high altitude 'the advantage was less marked at height'. And this is reflected in the game - this is one reason why i fly high.

    Another reason is speed - at 6K the 110 will outrun the Hurri if flown properly and is not all that much slower than the Spit. So if you maintain good SA and see approaching fighters early enough you can evade (if they are hurris) or make them do a long chase (if they are Spits).

    And lastly - the 110 is a pig re acceleration. But gravity is your friend and at 6K you have lots of potential energy to help you keep your speed up while defensive with Spits/Hurris or help you accelerate to high speed if making a diving pass.

    And then what?

    What i'm hoping to see is a contact flying near me at 3 - 4k altitude that hasnt seen me. I will then decide if I'm going to attack taking into account a few things such as whether he has any friends with him, how close i am to my friends/territory etc. Once ive made the decision to attack i will then begin to dive on him. I've found that it works best for me to keep the airspeed in the 500 - 600 km range - any faster and the rudder seems to lose authority and the closing speed makes it harder to line up for the pass - so i will adjust my dive angle accordingly and keep the ball centred as much as possible. As i approach him i will go slightly below his altitude and hide in his blind spot (if its a fighter) at his low 6 as i approach to avoid him seeing me at the last moment. And then I will commence firing at reasonably long range (~ 500m) - depending on overtake speed i might only have time for a 1 sec burst but if you get the 110s guns on him for 1 sec this is all it takes. And then once i am past him i will resist the urge to turn and look and will climb away maintaining my airspeed above 400 km/h for as long as possible. If its worked out for me then he will be smoking/leaking stuff or have no elevators and gravity will win. This never gets old for me especially if its a Spit or Hurri.

    If i missed or didnt do sufficient damage then this is where the fun starts. If its a Hurri and he has no friends in front of him then i should be able to climb away from him back to 6K and safety. If its a Spit and he's annoyed at me for daring to attack him in his bright shiny thing then things will get tricky for me. I will use manual PP and fly at the 5 min settings while in a shallow climb to put some distance between me and the Spit. But if he follows and if he knows what he is doing he will eventually catch me. If i have selected my patrol area correctly then i can usually reach friendly territory by the time he closes so will often have some TS buddies to help. If not then I have found that the best approach is to be aggressive and turn back on him when he has closed to about 5 km and force at least one by head on pass. Sometimes this works but if it doesnt then the Spit has the advantage and all i can really do is make it extra hard for him to shoot me down. Sometimes I get lucky and get some hits, or my AI gunner will hit him, but more often than not we will end up on the deck with me having at least one dead engine and being in a bad place. But i still take some satisfaction if I have made him work hard for the kill and can usually tell if he is really frustrated as he will either try and ram me before i crash land (if he's out of ammo) or strafe me after i have successfully crash landed to get the kill.

    So that's about it re how i fly the 110 as a fighter when going after other fighters. It is possible to do this successfully and its a lot of fun when it works. Hopefully this might give some people some ideas re flying the 110 as a fighter and I look fwd to seeing some more of you in the air in a 110 having fun.

    Now to check my ping again....

    Edit - fixed Links hopefully

    Ezzie
    Last edited by III./ZG76_Ezzie; Jul-11-2015 at 05:41.

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    Supporting Member 9./JG52 Mindle's Avatar
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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Great stuff Ezzie. I am a 110 fan but am a little hit and miss when using it as a fighter. Will try flying more like this methinks.


    Windows 10 64-bit; Intel Core i5-4670K @ 3.4 GHz Processor; 16.0 GB RAM; NVIDIA GTX970; TM Warthog HOTAS; MFG Crosswinds; Track IR5

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Mindle View Post
    Great stuff Ezzie. I am a 110 fan but am a little hit and miss when using it as a fighter. Will try flying more like this methinks.

    Thanks Mindle - maybe one day we'll go hunting together and see how we go?

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Good idea!


    Windows 10 64-bit; Intel Core i5-4670K @ 3.4 GHz Processor; 16.0 GB RAM; NVIDIA GTX970; TM Warthog HOTAS; MFG Crosswinds; Track IR5

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Here's a video of my latest Bf110 sortie - passed the 5kill mark in that one flight.



    Hope it might be of some use! From my experience the 110 performs best when mixed with 109s. On it's own it can really only engage aircraft that it has a substantial advantage over. Anything else is bordering on the suicidal...

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    When it comes to fighting with the 110, I recommend only going after bombers, and fighters when they're on the ground, taking off, or landing

    Download the Blood in the Skies 1 mission pack here: https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...downloadid=106

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybermat47 View Post
    When it comes to fighting with the 110, I recommend only going after bombers, and fighters when they're on the ground, taking off, or landing

    I couldn't disagree more.

    Bombers yes, but if you're below 4000m with a 110 you're doing it wrong. You must be above all fighters if you want to survive in a 110 as a fighter.

    Shooting planes taking off or landing is an amateurish thing to do and not befitting of a 110 pilot.

    III./ZG76 2N+ZR
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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Keller! My old nemesis! It's been too long!

    More than once I've approached a high flying 110 flying straight 'n level thinking to myself, "This is gonna be like taking candy from a baby...." when WHACK!!!! my screen goes black, I'm saying "WTF??!?, and you're typing in "hehehe! Thanks for the target practice, Snapper!"



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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Just a side note, I've flown rear gunner with Ezzie several times, very good pilot to fly with, great combination of "let's have fun and utilizing tactics and skill

    Knucks


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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    That .pdf that was an actual war report of the me110 was very interesting thanks much for the link. I noticed that the 110s cannons were reloadable by the gunner and had provisions for 6 extra mags in it, is this modeled in the game or once you run out of cannon ammo are you out? I guess I just never realized you could reload them on the fly if it IS modeled.

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixCNE View Post
    That .pdf that was an actual war report of the me110 was very interesting thanks much for the link. I noticed that the 110s cannons were reloadable by the gunner and had provisions for 6 extra mags in it, is this modeled in the game or once you run out of cannon ammo are you out? I guess I just never realized you could reload them on the fly if it IS modeled.
    pretty sure its not modeled, Ive never had Ezzie yell out " Knucks re load my dang cannnons" !!!!!!!


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    Supporting Member III./ZG76_Saipan's Avatar
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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    you get 1 reload by the rear gunner of the cannons. i could swear in older versions you could see the AI gunner doing it but i could be wrong.
    Last edited by III./ZG76_Saipan; Jul-24-2015 at 11:38.
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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by III./ZG76_Saipan View Post
    you get 1 reload by the rear gunner of the cannons. i could swear in older versions you could see the AI gunner doing it but i could be wrong.
    We're talking about the forward firing cannons here, right? (Not the rear gunners bb-gun?)

    I never new they were reloadable ??? How's it done? Go to rear gunner and hit 'R'? How has that not been mentioned before, or am I blind? So confused right now....

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    yes the forward cannons get 1 reload. its automatic no button to hit....once the counters go from 60 to 0 you will see them reset. takes a few seconds. thats the enigma of the 110...lots of punch but limited agility
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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybermat47 View Post
    When it comes to fighting with the 110, I recommend only going after bombers, and fighters when they're on the ground, taking off, or landing

    Like Keller said - go high is best re fighters in my experience. Down low over airfields doesn't work for me either as fun or actually hitting stuff.

    My favourite approach is to go find fighters minding their own business away from the hot spots and bounce them. Takes time and patience and often doesn't happen. But when it does it's good fun ( for me not so much him). kinda like doing long range night intruder sorties but in the day time. Not very gentlemanly old bean but....

    Found a couple well north of Portsmouth on Kanalkampf last weekend and bounced them. Got some hits and after some fighter pilot waves hands in air stuff I was able to disengage from them and run home. Good fun and very satisfying to sneak up on them, get some hits, duel for a bit and still make it home. Half my fun in the 110 is making it home alive after tangling with fighters.

    Ezzie
    Last edited by III./ZG76_Ezzie; Jul-24-2015 at 19:44.

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by JG4_Karaya View Post
    Here's a video of my latest Bf110 sortie - passed the 5kill mark in that one flight.



    Hope it might be of some use! From my experience the 110 performs best when mixed with 109s. On it's own it can really only engage aircraft that it has a substantial advantage over. Anything else is bordering on the suicidal...
    Thanks Karaya - some very nice flying / shooting there. S!

    I noticed in this and your other videos you use the lean into gunsight view and zoom in. I stopped using that very early on as I found it hard to judge closing rate and kept colliding with my tgt. After seeing this video I tried to use it again earlier today. And collided with my tgt - sry Spit high over England.

    How do u avoid not colliding with your tgt when using this view?

    Ezzie

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Knuckles View Post
    Just a side note, I've flown rear gunner with Ezzie several times, very good pilot to fly with, great combination of "let's have fun and utilizing tactics and skill

    Knucks
    Thanks Knuckles. Good flying with you earlier today and look fwd to doing it again next time.

    Ezzie

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by III./ZG76_Saipan View Post
    you get 1 reload by the rear gunner of the cannons. i could swear in older versions you could see the AI gunner doing it but i could be wrong.

    Hey Saipan - hows things?

    I think you get 2 x reloads. Reload takes about 10 sec and if you pull Gs during the reload he will stop. So sometime you end up with uneven amounts for a short time. After seeing a old post re animation I had look recently while reloading but didn't see anything re animation.

    I've never had a human gunner in the back when it comes time to reload. Next time knuckles and I battle the RAF I'll keep any eye on it and see what happens. I think I was on my second load out earlier today with knuckles in the back but can't be sure as there was a lot happening and I didn't take a look at my ammo counter.

    Ezzie

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by III./ZG76_Keller View Post
    I couldn't disagree more.

    Bombers yes, but if you're below 4000m with a 110 you're doing it wrong. You must be above all fighters if you want to survive in a 110 as a fighter.
    True, but what I try to do is do a shallow dive from 6800m down to the airfield where the enemy aircraft landing/taking off are, shoot them in one pass, then climb away back to base.

    Shooting planes taking off or landing is an amateurish thing to do and not befitting of a 110 pilot.
    "On the tarmac below were 10 old high wing Fokker reconaissance aircraft and about two dozen Fokker D-21 fighters lined up in the morning sun, and they all seemed to be warming up. If they got into the air we would have our hands full - dog-fighting with a D-21 at low altitude would be no mean task. Just then I spotted one of the recce's raking off. As I went for the Fokker, now about 100 metres in the air, the others began strafing the now taxiing fighters as ground fire opened up on us. Firing both my cannon and MG's, the recce' burst into flames and fell to the ground as I pulled up. I banked around and saw fire and smoke billowing up from the burning aircraft on the ground. So much for the 'happy welcome to our liberation'."
    - Oberleutnant Wolfgang Falck, Gruppenkommandeur of I/ZG 1, recounting his first sortie in the Danish campaign.

    In my opinion, if it's good enough for a Gruppenkommandeur, it's good enough for us.

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Freya View Post
    We're talking about the forward firing cannons here, right? (Not the rear gunners bb-gun?)

    I never new they were reloadable ??? How's it done? Go to rear gunner and hit 'R'? How has that not been mentioned before, or am I blind? So confused right now....
    Lol is news to me as well .. thank you all for the answers

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by III./ZG76_Ezzie View Post
    Hey Saipan - hows things?

    I think you get 2 x reloads. Reload takes about 10 sec and if you pull Gs during the reload he will stop. So sometime you end up with uneven amounts for a short time. After seeing a old post re animation I had look recently while reloading but didn't see anything re animation.

    I've never had a human gunner in the back when it comes time to reload. Next time knuckles and I battle the RAF I'll keep any eye on it and see what happens. I think I was on my second load out earlier today with knuckles in the back but can't be sure as there was a lot happening and I didn't take a look at my ammo counter.

    Ezzie
    hi ezzie, havent flown much lately..

    60 and 60 then you get another 60 and 60. maybe the animation was in vanilla at release..maybe im just old.
    Last edited by III./ZG76_Saipan; Jul-25-2015 at 01:48.
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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    First of all great initiative Ezzie!Very well done starting this " tutorial " about the Bf 110!

    I've noted that there's a bit of confusion around about the bullets quantity available in the Bf 110...
    If it could help here is my knowledge about it:

    Bf 110 Ammunition Quantity

    - Forward cannons: 180 rounds in total reloaded in three times ( 60 + 60 + 60 ).
    Note that the cannon bullets are reloaded by the rear gunner using the automatic reload system of the Bf 110 so you can order him to reload if you want to do it before the clip ends ( you have to set a key for reload and you have to press ( or order it if you prefer ) the designated key when in the rear gunner position.

    - Forward machine guns: 1000 rounds each machine gun. No reloads.

    - Rear machine gun: 750 rounds ( 10 clips x 75 bullets ) reloading time about 8 seconds ( really an age nor my grandmother when drunk takes 8 seconds to reload a MG )

    Some pics as reference:

    Rear machine gun



    Translation of Terms

    1 Kimme = Rear Sight
    2 Kreiskorn = Anti Aircraft Sight
    3 Trommeln T 33 = Drum Magazine T 33
    4 Leertrommelbehälter = Empty Magazines Container
    5 Pivot Kopf = Head of the Pivot
    6 Schußbegrenzung = Buffer
    7 Segeltuchabschottung = Canvas of Closing
    8 MG 15 = Machine Gun 15
    9 Kreuzgelenklafette = Gimbal holder
    10 Hülsensack = Bag Sleeve for the Cartridge Casings
    11 Zurrvorrichtung = Anchoring Device
    12 Trommelschiene TS 33 = Guide Rod for Drum Magazines TS 33

    Drum Magazine Detail



    Translation of Terms

    Patronenkasten 16, am machinengewehr angehängt = Drum Magazine type 16 loaded to the machine gun
    A Patronenkasten 16 = Drum Magazine type 16
    1 Rollenscheibe = Rotating Disc
    2 Welle = Shaft
    3 Stifte = Pin
    4 Kasten = Magazine
    5 Haltestück = Magazine Edge Lock
    6 Gelenkband = Jointing Strip
    7 Deckel = Magazine Cover
    8 Walze = Roller
    B Patronengurt = Ammunition Belt
    C Kastenhalter = Magazine Holder
    9 Feder = Spring
    D Mantelboden = Jacket Base
    10 Ausfräfung zum Einhaken des Kastenhalters = Milling to hook the magazine holder
    E Lauf = Barrel
    F Zuführer = Belt Feed
    11 Gehäufe = Housing
    12 Gurthebel = Ammunition Belt-Feed Guide
    13 Gurtschieber = Ammunition Belt-Feed Slipway
    14 Zubringehebel mit Feder = Ammunition Belt-Feed Lever with Spring
    15 Ansätze für den Gurtschieberhebel = Ammunition Belt-Feed Pawl
    16 Druckbolzen mit Feder und Splint = Pressure Screw with Spring and Pin
    G Staubschutzdeckel = Dust Cover
    17 Splintbolzen = Pin

    Detail of the front machine guns clips



    Detail of the cannons automatic reloading system, forward machine guns and rear machine gun



    Detail of the Cannon Clips area in the cockpit

    Last edited by xvii-Hardegen; Jul-25-2015 at 04:36.

    All pilots are created equal.Then some become Bf 110 and Ju 88 pilots!

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    @Hardegen

    Shooting planes taking off or landing is an amateurish thing to do and not befitting of a 110 pilot.

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    i stand corrected on the count.
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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by 5th_Hellrider View Post
    @Hardegen

    Shooting planes taking off or landing is an amateurish thing to do and not befitting of a 110 pilot.
    Hardegen didn't say anything about intruder tactics...

    And anyway, as I stated above, the men who flew real 110s in real combat did shoot planes that were taking off or landing:

    "On the tarmac below were 10 old high wing Fokker reconaissance aircraft and about two dozen Fokker D-21 fighters lined up in the morning sun, and they all seemed to be warming up. If they got into the air we would have our hands full - dog-fighting with a D-21 at low altitude would be no mean task. Just then I spotted one of the recce's raking off. As I went for the Fokker, now about 100 metres in the air, the others began strafing the now taxiing fighters as ground fire opened up on us. Firing both my cannon and MG's, the recce' burst into flames and fell to the ground as I pulled up. I banked around and saw fire and smoke billowing up from the burning aircraft on the ground. So much for the 'happy welcome to our liberation'."
    - Oberleutnant Wolfgang Falck, Gruppenkommandeur of I/ZG 1, recounting his first sortie in the Danish campaign.

    Frankly, I find this whole "amateur and not befitting of a 110 pilot" thing rather offensive towards actual Bf-110 pilots. It's essentially saying that people who fly a Bf-110 on a computer are better than the men who flew, and often died in, these machines.

    I know that's not what anyone here means, but that's just how it makes me feel.
    Last edited by Cybermat47; Jul-25-2015 at 19:11.

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    I think you do a little confusion between real war and the game.

    The story that you mention is against the old Fokkers reconnaissance, thou hast never met in CloD? Also it is evidently another context, certainly not a classic fight of BoB, where instead of the 110 suffered a lot.
    In reality was quite difficult to make strafing the enemy bases, due to several factors, AAA, the base could take off in scramble planes, etc. etc..

    In ATAG most of the dogfigth is at a low altitude, on the bases and in fighters; impossible to think of a comparison with reality. Stuff shooter game.

    I don't like players who play in that way; see some take a 110 just go straight at low altitude on the nearest enemy base, attacking planes in start up, and then park their planes in a nearby field is nothing short of ridiculous (according to me), rather embarrassing!
    Last edited by 5th_Hellrider; Jul-26-2015 at 01:43.

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by 5th_Hellrider View Post
    I don't like players who play in that way; see some take a 110 just go straight at low altitude on the nearest enemy base, attacking planes in start up, and then park their planes in a nearby field is nothing short of ridiculous (according to me), rather embarrassing!
    I agree completely; but you and I seem to be in the minority these days.

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    Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    I love the 110.

    Tonight, myself and ATAG Knuckles flew 2 sorties out of Calais Mark in a C7 Destroyer. We climbed East, turned North then went around to attack Canterbury, shaking off attackers on the way in and out.

    Target hit, we egressed at maximum speed and made it home to land safely both times with barely a scratch, taking out a total of 4 Spits and a Blenny on the ways home. Thanks to some great fighter cover from Max and Knuckles' rear gunnery skills.

    Not strictly fighter flying, but It's a very rewarding plane.
    Last edited by 9./JG52 Mindle; Jul-27-2015 at 20:46.


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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by 5th_Hellrider View Post
    I think you do a little confusion between real war and the game.
    Yeah, I guess I have been using some tactics that are good in real life, but not so good for a game

    After all, the people I'm shooting at are often people I get along with

    The story that you mention is against the old Fokkers reconnaissance, thou hast never met in CloD? Also it is evidently another context, certainly not a classic fight of BoB, where instead of the 110 suffered a lot.
    In reality was quite difficult to make strafing the enemy bases, due to several factors, AAA, the base could take off in scramble planes, etc. etc..
    TBH, that difficulty is what makes it fun for me. Having a bunch of 40mms and 3-inchers firing at me and still surviving is something I find very rewarding.

    In ATAG most of the dogfigth is at a low altitude, on the bases and in fighters; impossible to think of a comparison with reality. Stuff shooter game.
    I think that something like that happened in the Battle of the Bulge, but that was a very different situation to the Battle of France and Battle of Britain. Might work in Operation Sealion though. I can definitely see how that gets annoying. Then again, this is a game, not reality, so these things are to be expected.

    I don't like players who play in that way; see some take a 110 just go straight at low altitude on the nearest enemy base, attacking planes in start up, and then park their planes in a nearby field is nothing short of ridiculous (according to me), rather embarrassing!
    Yeah, that sounds really stupid to me as well.

    IMO, you should get as high as possible, so you have an advantage over any enemy aircraft you encounter, and so that you can navigate easily. I do that and attack enemy aircraft I see, regardless of wether or not they're mid-air, on the ground (though I'd prefer to get them in the air), or taking off (I've been shot up on the ground loads of times, and I've just respawned somewhere else and gotten up in under a minute), though I'll hold off on attacking landing planes, seeing as they've just managed to survive a whole sortie. I'd only do that IRL, when an infinitely lot more is at stake, (or in single player, where the AI doesn't get annoyed) and, as you said, this is a game, not real life.

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    Re: Bf-110 fighter flying - an approach

    Quote Originally Posted by 5th_Hellrider View Post
    @Hardegen

    Shooting planes taking off or landing is an amateurish thing to do and not befitting of a 110 pilot.
    Sorry but why you say it to me????
    Take in mind that every time that you see a Bf 110 strafing a field it's not said that it's always flown by me ( also because in the last two months I've flown just Ju 88s mainly )...people have get the habit that every time they spot a Bf 110 it must be flown by me...but I'm not the only Bf 110 pilot around, damn, and I'm not the Dalai Lama with the chance of be simultaneously in different places!
    Somehow my point of view about this is simple: I can understand your point of view ( everyone is free to have his opinion ) but I think about this aspect of the game in this way...( and this applies also to me )...from the moment you spawn you become a valid target independently to the altitude at which you are...that's the cruel " internet " war!
    If you spawn at a forward airfields be strafed on the ground it's part of the risk...
    In addition the Bf 110 was mainly used as ground attack plane...take a look here...so saying to a Bf 110 pilot of not strafing ground targets it's like saying to a fighter pilot that he's making a wrong thing dogfighting against enemy fighters...



    If you don't want to be attacked by a Bf 110 while on the ground here there's a good solution...The tutorial it's very brief but it propose a very good solution to avoid to be strafed on the ground ( click on the link provided below )...
    http://criticalhits.com.br/wp-conten...-simulator.png ...
    Last edited by xvii-Hardegen; Jul-28-2015 at 00:39.

    All pilots are created equal.Then some become Bf 110 and Ju 88 pilots!

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