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Thread: Detailed discussion of offline AI vs human players

  1. #31
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    Re: Detailed discussion of offline AI vs human players

    I never said ALL the AI are inexperienced, and your scenario of "Just spotting Mr Green because he's inexperienced" and "diving down to put a few holes in him" is just silly.

    Why is he lower than you? How can you spot him easily on the basis of his experience? The world doesn't serve you the enemy on a plate like that 100% of the time.

    My observation is that they fly in formation until you attack. When in formation they will respond by: 1) fleeing if they are wanting to avoid a fight or 2) The leader will dispatch a pair or a flight to deal with you. You don't get to tell who is experienced or not until after the proverbial starts flying.

    It's then that the discrepancies in skill become apparent, maybe in a wingman who can't keep up and gets left behind. Those are the weak ones and putting holes in them largely depends upon which of his 11 mates takes objection to your intentions.

  2. #32
    ATAG Member ATAG_Flare's Avatar
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    Re: Detailed discussion of offline AI vs human players

    The one big fault of the CloD ai is the shooting. They tend to shoot in really long bursts, even if they're missing. I've never seen the ai take a short burst. They will often fire the 109s full compliment of 20mm in one burst, not hitting the target at all.

    It's strange how the ai can get on your tail but not know how to shoot you down.

  3. #33
    Supporting Member FightingSteel1's Avatar
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    Re: Detailed discussion of offline AI vs human players

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyBlonde View Post
    I never said ALL the AI are inexperienced, and your scenario of "Just spotting Mr Green because he's inexperienced" and "diving down to put a few holes in him" is just silly.

    Why is he lower than you? How can you spot him easily on the basis of his experience? The world doesn't serve you the enemy on a plate like that 100% of the time.

    My observation is that they fly in formation until you attack. When in formation they will respond by: 1) fleeing if they are wanting to avoid a fight or 2) The leader will dispatch a pair or a flight to deal with you. You don't get to tell who is experienced or not until after the proverbial starts flying.

    It's then that the discrepancies in skill become apparent, maybe in a wingman who can't keep up and gets left behind. Those are the weak ones and putting holes in them largely depends upon which of his 11 mates takes objection to your intentions.
    I don't think that's silly at all. I bet a lot of British and American pilots were bounced by 109s (especially in the BOB timeframe) without ever even seeing what/who got them.

    The fact that nearly every major combat sim of the past 20 years offers a better AI experience is pretty much all you need to say about CLODs current single player experience. I don't think anyone gets left behind because there is some really deep experience system being modeled here, I think it's because the programming is too basic to coherently do what it's supposed to.

  4. #34
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    Re: Detailed discussion of offline AI vs human players

    You can catch a guy on his own and you can attack a formation and shoot one down before they even notice you. It's just rare to find yourself in such a fortuitous situation when you fly the way I do unless you have a very good knowledge of the sector codes, map geography and an instinct for guessing the intentions of the enemy via what Top Hat tells you (and luck on top of that).

    I've completed over 20 fully hand flown intercepts in the last two days using the mission I mentioned and the massive variety of responses and situations I've encountered indicates to me that there is a considerable depth to the AI logic. I haven't seen the code first hand but I do know that there are at least 10 different skill levels and I suspect that they can change dynamically during a mission. I also suspect that there are ways to trigger various types of response based on certain, pre-defined, logical criteria.

    Maybe someone who has worked with the AI code can chime in.

    I'm not saying it's perfect, just that there's a solid basis there to work with. A bit of tweaking on some of the logic. They need to fly faster when fleeing and be more proactive when evading, a bit more aggression, some improved marksmanship for higher skilled AI and some more flexibility in ordering them around that they would be quite good.

    Edit: Before I forget. One very big problem is that they tend to climb at very slow forward speed quite often.
    Last edited by JimmyBlonde; Jun-05-2016 at 05:00.

  5. #35
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    Re: Detailed discussion of offline AI vs human players

    The best practice in dogfighting offline that I can get in most of the flight sims that I have played is to go up against an AI team mate that is in your flight squad. I know it sounds strange. But, they are always working really hard to get on your six and back into formation with you. And it's tough to work with them. At least tougher than the enemy ai. I just wish they could translate the script for the desire of the friendly AI to stay with you over to the enemy. lol.

  6. #36
    Supporting Member Blade_Meister's Avatar
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    Re: Detailed discussion of offline AI vs human players

    You might check with the Gents at OBD who created WOFF_UE. IMHO, they have created the best AI (al be it, WWI)
    in recent times. Here is a link to there page talking about some of the criteria that govern the AI.

    http://www.overflandersfields.com/products.html

    Scroll down a bit and click the "AI in Detail" button.

    If you can get CLOD AI up to the level of BOBII or WOFF_UE then CLOD will Reign Supreme in the WWII Sim genre.
    The BOX series is coming along nicely but still has its limitations in AI behavior, but Jason and company are acknowledging
    and working on the AI routines to reel in the single player customers. It is refreshing to know that most developers are
    working on the AI in there sims to try and win over the Single Players($ Sales $).


    S!Blade<><
    Last edited by Blade_Meister; May-22-2017 at 12:46.

  7. #37
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    Re: Detailed discussion of offline AI vs human players

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade_Meister View Post
    You might check with the Gents at OBD who created WOFF_UE. IMHO, they have created the best AI (al be it, WWI)
    in recent times. Here is a link to there page talking about some of the criteria that govern the AI.

    http://www.overflandersfields.com/products.html

    Scroll down a bit and click the "AI in Detail" button.

    If you can get CLOD AI up to the level of BOBII or WOFF_UE then CLOD will Reign Supreme in the WWII Sim genre.
    The BOX series is coming along nicely but still has its limitations in AI behavior, but Jason and company are acknowledging
    and working on the AI routines to reel in the single player customers. It is refreshing to know that most developers are
    working on the AI in there sims to try and win over the Single Players($ Sales $).


    S!Blade<><
    Just read that the WOFF folks are working on a Wings over WWII sim. The graphics engine is dated but if they can successfully port the AI from WOFF over to a WWII environment it should be a cracker.

  8. #38
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    Re: Detailed discussion of offline AI vs human players

    The folks at BDG (Buddye?) who did BoBII had very challenging AI in my opinion.

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