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Thread: UXO Survey news

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Highseas's Avatar
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    UXO Survey news

    So a while back yuo may recall I posted about a forthcoming UXO survey I need to commission around the locality of Shoreham Airport.

    Pattle expressed an interest in this so I mailed him with some interesting info. Nothing about the job obviously, or about the survey which will remain confidential unless it makes it's way into the public domain as part of the planning process.

    so as noted... all of this is in the public domain... and obviously I'm not going to be discussing anything beyond that...



    drop this into google maps

    50.835667, -0.304828

    That chunk of land imediately west of Shoreham Airport is identified in Adur District Councils Local Plan for a mixed use development. Housing / retail / public open space

    And since its right next door to a WWII airstrip an unexpolded ordnance survey is generally considered a pretty good idea !!

    Typically these cover the wider area and seek to locate areas knwon to have been hit by Axis bombs and potential Allied anti aircraft shells.


    The airfield itself has been active ever since... so will have been sweeped, one would hope THOROUGHLY, in the past.



    The runway located southwest-northeast is tarmac and built in '81 / '82.. which is why it isn't there in CLoD....

    another feature you will see if you switch to "earth" view is a thing that looks like a model of planet earth at the northwest corner of the Airfield...

    It was an anti aircraft gunnery training dome. and is now actually a scheduled monument... "YEY!"

    I'm trying to myself get a tour of that as it goes.... Fingers crosed !!



    So... Public Domain Stuff

    here is a document I found in the public domain which tells a little about the airfields history... and about those domes too !

    http://www.adur-worthing.gov.uk/medi...,139006,en.pdf


    oph look.. i found a map showing teh training dome as a red blob (also in the public domain)

    https://historicengland.org.uk/listi...-entry/1005818


    Also...

    If you do get the chance to drive past at any point then definatly drop in to the terminal building... very cool Art Deco...

    It has a restaurant too.... and is open to visitors, no special permits required.

    Free parking too if you use those bays along the eastern boundary road. !


    Couple of old american WWII training aircraft there too and a pair of Tiger moths... and some other WWII type plane I havent yet properly identified... you can stand there literally 3m away from them as the warm up and taxi off... and get airbourne.

    Amazing. !

    A month or two or three back... (I lost track) there was a part stripped Merlin engine in the lobby of Northbrook College (who have an engineering training facility there)... i think I posted some shots of that here some place...

    I went back more recently and it had gone... presumably shifted back to the students training workshops...

    Amazing to be stood right in front of that monster !!


    So there ya go...

    Bit of light public domain reading.

    Did I mention that all of this is in the public domain?

    It's kind of important !!

    'Seas



    EDIT

    Look what they found in March

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-35868978


    (they were in the public domain by the way... hehehe)
    Last edited by ATAG_Highseas; Sep-15-2016 at 13:03. Reason: Additional info added

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Leading from and at the front 'Seas.

    Ok, who is guilty of dropping those bombs in the water without setting the fuses!

    Pattle

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    I fixed the dead links !!

    If you came here before take another gander !

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    more reseach from the public domain


    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...YtBr85Obzmy8TE

    and that is just Brighton !!

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_s...ew?usp=sharing

    quite an interestying read too.. (i appreciate this is kinda local stuff..... but... !!)

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Highseas View Post
    more reseach from the public domain


    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...YtBr85Obzmy8TE

    and that is just Brighton !!

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_s...ew?usp=sharing

    quite an interestying read too.. (i appreciate this is kinda local stuff..... but... !!)
    stuff here form east sussex.. see the pdf's in the lower 2 3rds of the page.

    https://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/leisur.../ww2/homefront


    right.. that enough of that !!

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Highseas View Post
    stuff here form east sussex.. see the pdf's in the lower 2 3rds of the page.

    https://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/leisur.../ww2/homefront


    right.. that enough of that !!

    and then I found this... for example zoom to shoreham and click the plane icons...

    http://www.sussex.ac.uk/geography/re...PSX=-1+GPSY=-1

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    For example...

    Château Highseas was built in 1935
    Highseas.jpg


    Classy like....

    Caveat:

    (It may or may not be in the location I have circled... I'm not having BoosterDog punching holes in my roof...)
    Last edited by ATAG_Highseas; Sep-16-2016 at 10:35.

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Look at that !! Just Two nights !!!

    soton-blitz-map.jpg


    "During the nights of 30 November and 1 December 1940, the Southampton Blitz reached its climax as the city came under sustained attack. Hundreds of tonnes of bombs were dropped during the two nights, whilst on 30 November alone some 634 individual properties were left ablaze."
    Last edited by ATAG_Highseas; Sep-21-2016 at 07:38.

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Highseas's Avatar
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    Re: UXO Survey news

    London 7th October 1940 to 6th June 1941

    http://bombsight.org/#10/51.4938/0.0611

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Thanks for posting this stuff Seas it is fascinating.

    The London map makes me glad I wasn't in London during the 'Blitz'. I can hear Marlow saying "Gordon Bennett" there goes another one!

    ~S~

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Shoreham..... Unexploded bomb




    And in 1982, army chiefs warned the airfield could be riddled with unexploded German bombs.

    The alarm was raised when a huge bomb was found eight feet underground and just north of the main runway in February that year.

    A ten-man team of experts worked until the early hours to make it safe.

    The five foot long bomb, which still clearly showed its stamp of an eagle, symbol of the German Third Reich, was then lifted out of its crater and two holes drilled in its side.

    For the next six hours, the team pumped out the explosive with steam before calling the all-clear at 1am.

    The next day, the explosives were burnt in a deep trench.

    The major, whose name was kept secret for security reasons, said the bomb was meant for special sea targets, although the airport was the target of several raids during the war.

    He said: “It’s possible there could be many more bombs. Someone based here during the war has said he remembers many more than one bomb falling.”

    [/I][/I]

    As they say....

    Cripes!!

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Got a UXO survey through today....

    sooo....



    At the beginning of WWII, during the period of anticipated enemy invasion, a solution was sought to deny the use of RAF runways to enemy gliders and transport aircraft in the event of a German airborne attack, and so the Canadian Pipe Mine was devised by the 1st Canadian Tunnelling Company.

    The Canadian pipe mines used during WWII comprised 50-70mm steel pipes inserted into the ground using hydraulic pipe pushing equipment. They were laid in a criss-cross pattern, mainly under the concrete runways / grass flying fields of RAF airfields, approximately 6ft beneath the surface. They were subsequently filled with explosives.

    Only nine airfields were identified for mining initially but this rose to include other locations and by the end of 1942, after the threat of invasion had receded, 30 locations were mined, not all of them airfields. It is estimated that over 40,000ft of pipe mines were installed.

    Historical records confirm that Shoreham Airfield was one such airfield.

    During the war some of the pipe mines were made safe and removed because of the deterioration of the explosive filler but most were left in situ. After the war Canadian engineers were tasked with removal but this was never completed in full.



    It's just... well.... I'm kind of working there... so.... if any of you Canadians want to pop over and just sort of tidy up a bit..... you know... before I get the piling rig in...

    Just saying....

    mine.jpg
    Last edited by ATAG_Highseas; Oct-04-2016 at 10:57.

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Maybe explains that long grass issue as well... maybe it isn't a bug after all.....

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Something in my past comes to mind when you say the bases should have been swept already. Back around 1979-80 I was just finishing up my tour at RAF Lakenheath. That was about the time they decided to rebuild the main gate area. And also about the time they found an unexploded bomb buried under the gate. Sometimes things slip by.

    Chief
    SERVING THE ROF AND BOS COMMUNITY

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    I think I must have found one on Westhampnett last night. Talk about bumpy!

    ~S~

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire168ARH View Post
    I think I must have found one on Westhampnett last night. Talk about bumpy!

    ~S~
    Yeah... that's once crappy airstrip !! It's lumpy as hell !!

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Man.. the more of this I read....



    Shoreham airfield was pipe mined during WWII. 1980s Army records confirm that the airfield was not completely cleared of mines after WWII and in 1982 seven live mines were indeed encountered during an EOD clearance task. The same records also state that “the mined area at Shoreham was extended” during WWII. Consequently, the possibility cannot be entirely discounted that the eastern extent of the study area was mined.



    The military actually held records that confirmed they had left a load of mines... in place.... on a active airstrip.... for going on 40 years ????

    What the hell !????


    Might get a new job....

    maybe something in retail....

    "Doesn't sir look quite the picture ? The tweed really emphasises sirs already impressive stature. Shall I fetch sir the shooting jacket to complete the ensemble?"

    I could do that... easy...



    actually... on second thoughts...

    Gonna hang out with my mines.... keep my dignity... (and hopefully all my limbs)

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Anecdotal evidence of local bombing incidents was sought from publications and web resources. The following references to bombing incidents in the Shoreham area were found.

    • Air raid over Shoreham on 24th September 1940.
    • Shoreham Airfield was attacked by three enemy aircraft on the 8th October 1940.
    • Shoreham was bombed on a number of occasions during the summer nights of 1941. The last raid of 1941 took place on the night of the 19th December 1941.
    • Shoreham Airfield was taken out of action for a short time on the night of the 8th
    • September 1941. This attack was the heaviest raid to date in which during which the main hangar was destroyed.
    • Shoreham attacked on 8th April 1941. No further details were found.
    • Shoreham attacked as a secondary target on 4th May 1941.
    • The largest raid to hit the airport was on the night of the 13th February 1943 when the control tower was hit and other buildings on site were set alight. There were over 100 x 1kg IBs recorded over the airfield.



    Reading this stuff really puts it into some perspective...

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    You take care out there young fella. That shits real!!

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Quote Originally Posted by Pattle View Post
    You take care out there young fella. That shits real!!
    +1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK9p8AwhJtw

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Apparently Canadian Pipe Mines were filled with Gelignite... which when in contact with water deteriorates... good news you might think...

    Horray... no more nasty Explody Gelignite... yey !!



    however...

    When it degrades due to contact with water.... it becomes Nitroglycerine... which as you probably know is rather unstable... and also quite explody... not a great combination that.... unstable and explody... (reminds me of a girl I used to know....)


    This job really has it's moments... learning all the time....

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    Yeah...

    Glad they swept the runway in '82.... that's the same time that they put the tarmac runway in as it goes...

    Anyhow... pipe mines aren't really a problem as they took them all out (probably) and I'm not doing any drilling on or near the runways...

    I just found it quite interesting that they become a bit dodgey (to say the least) over time.


    Apparently with air dropped "bombs" the risk of spontaneous detonation is actually very remote. Pretty much the oppositve of those pipe mines by the sounds of it.

    Drilling through one will do it... (go figure !!) as could applying a huge static charge to the casing... but clockwork mechanisms starting on their own after 40 years inactive and sat in groundwater is (I am reliably told by the experts) so remote a possibility as to a negligable risk. (that said if you find one get the bomb squad in !!)



    They recon that the penetration of german ordnace is (depending on mass) typically around 10m into clays...

    Most of the material around the airstrip is alluvial silt... so probably looking at around 12-15m penetration, maybe more.


    The records suggest that 10% of german bombs failed to explode.... for one reason or another.... and that is considered to be a low estimate... given that that's is just based on the recorded ones... not the ones left that we havent found yet.... I thought 10% failure sounded pretty high ! but apparently it's even higher !


    Fourtunatly the areas I'm working in are considered to be low risk, which is rather good news. (though im a bit surpised about that as well to be honest !.... seems to be based on anything 400m from a "target" is medium to low risk...

    400m ?... I would have been a truly terrible bomber pilot !!!


    anyhow...

    learning learning learning !!

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Curious Highseas, are you a Bomb Technician, Ammunition Technical Officer, Army Engineer, UXO researcher or ancillary supporting occupation?
    https://imgur.com/VCUiXpY

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Quote Originally Posted by SC-Sp00k View Post
    Curious Highseas, are you a Bomb Technician, Ammunition Technical Officer, Army Engineer or UXO researcher?
    None of the above.... I'm a Civil Engineer

    Kinda landed a cracker of a job on this one !!

    Tonnes of WWII stuff to research around Shoreham Aiprort !

    At night I'm flying Cliffs, and during the day I'm reading about it !!

    This perfect world will all change pretty soon mind given that the job itself isn't actually in 1940, and isn't actually about finding bombs...

    but right now !? Man ! totally lucked out on this one !


    Really interesting stuff !

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Highseas View Post
    400m ?... I would have been a truly terrible bomber pilot !!!


    anyhow...

    learning learning learning !!
    Ah dont ya just hate these fighter types ".....bombers are for remtards.... cos bombing is easy blud, like just press a button and stuff and sip from the thermos you mum packed for you...... "


    go take something grown up to 20000 on a cloudy day with a few knots of cross wind and bomb something simple. I think you'll be happy if it lands in the same continent

    S!

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    What you might need to do Seas is take a Ju88 or an He111 up and bomb Shoreham.

    Then have look to see where the bombs fell.

    Well maybe not................!

    I hate to think of you going around with your hands over your ears stamping on the ground looking for something that goes.............

    BOOM!!!

    ~S~

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Quote Originally Posted by Boosterdog View Post
    Ah dont ya just hate these fighter types ".....bombers are for remtards.... cos bombing is easy blud, like just press a button and stuff and sip from the thermos you mum packed for you...... "


    go take something grown up to 20000 on a cloudy day with a few knots of cross wind and bomb something simple. I think you'll be happy if it lands in the same continent

    S!

    BOO
    yeah...

    a 400m "it's ok over here though" envelope?

    I don't buy it !

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    Looks like we may be extending the survey to include the northeast of the Airfiled... and if we do it would almost certainly lead to bringing the Bomb Disposal chaps into the mix to oversee and assist or Site Investigation chaps.

    It's all rather exciting !

    Really hoping to learn more about this. Can't really see me getting this opportunity again !...

    That said.... I have worked at a strategic level (development not military) both at Ford and Tangmere in the past.... so maybe in 10 or 15 years i get another crack at it... who knows!

    Keep ya posted.... in a few months I would think...

    'Seas

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    That dome trainer at Shoreham Airfiled i mentioned...

    found this...

    It's not at Shoreham... it's at Portsmouth... but you get the idea...

    http://www.britishpathe.com/video/dome-trainer

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    Re: UXO Survey news

    I like the look of the inflatable dome. You could put it in your back garden.......inflate......and 'Hey presto' a ready made sim bubble.

    Project CloD onto the dome and away you go!

    It would be interesting to get a 'squint' inside the concrete dome at Shoreham.

    Interesting stuff Seas thanks.

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