Spit IIa climb test results.

[=AN=Felipe]

Nice! Thx you!

=)

[Dutch]

No WEP used, only 2600rpm for better performance climb.

Sigh.......

No-one ever listens to me.

[=AN=Felipe]

Sigh.......

No-one ever listens to me.

Hehe

[Dutch]

Hehe

I have been telling them for six months........

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Just for fun,

i do this simple test who show us many things about performance and engine settings.

To do this test i used:

Attachment 1168
Spitfire IIa real manual.

Settings: No wind, 988mba at Manston airfield, 25єC, full fuel tank, Militar gear including full ammo, Spitfire IIa.

Climb to 20k ft full radiator open, then half closed to reach 25k ft and 30k ft.

No WEP used, only 2600rpm for better performance climb.

At 28k ft 3000rpm to try reach 30k ft

***Opearational service for Spitfire IIa in COD (Atual patch is 28,5k ft) +0.3fpm, under this we got more then +0.3fpm (able to fight) and over this we have less than +0.3fpm (unable to fight)



For a linear Climb we have this datas:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Climb Test - Spitfire Mk IIa

Altitude (ft) RPM Set (rpm) Time (min,sec) Time Acum (min,sec)

SL...................2600......................... .0......................0
5000.............................................. 2,37................2,37
10000............................................2 ,59................4,96
13000............................................1 ,53................6,49
15000............................................1 ,17................7,66
20000............................................. 3,5...............11,16
25000............................................6 ,52..............17,68
30000...........................................26 ,21.............43,89
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment 1169

What we can see reading this datas?

This datas show us the weakness of Spitfire, we got worst performance at 10k to 15k, thats why you (spitfirepilot) should never try to climb chasing a ME109E or enter in a vertical dogfight.

Over 15k our speed and acceleration beggins to be equal then ME109, over 18k our supercharger mantain 50% of our engine power against 33% of ME109 supercharger at same altitude, thats why ME109 got poor performance...

Its just a few conclusions, i can see, and i have more and more for this subject...



One picture to prouve 30k ft was a Service Celling for spitfire IIa in COD.
Attachment 1170



So guys! Hope you enjoy and i hope to be clear with this information!


Yoo! S!

Salute AN=Felipe

Thanks for your information, no question there are ways to get the best out of the different aircraft in the game, but at the same time, that is a way of compensating for the inaccuracies.

The Spit IIA had a recommended max climb setting of 2850 rpm and +9 boost, with the recommended speed of 186mph at sea level, gradually dropping with altitude.

And perhaps it is better to climb at 2600 rpm at some alts, but again, that is a compensation for the poor modelling.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are ways to get the optimum performance out of the 109's which don't fit with the way the real aircraft performed. For example, we already know the game allows a player to run 1.33 ata for unlimited time periods without overheating, while for the real aircraft that was a 5 minute limit. And of course, 1.45 ata can be run for a minute, off for a minute, on for a minute, and not just on takeoff. And it seems the flaps can be deployed at speeds they were not designed for, etc. etc. All these compensate in some ways for the fact the 109's are a little slow and don't climb as well as they should, but really shouldn't we have something a little closer?

The game is way off from real figures, its unfortunate the developers couldn't find a way to fix this, and its too bad they won't allow us to try.

I'd just like to see a more accurate representation than we are getting.

Not that I don't appreciate that the current patch is better than some previous ones, not that I don't enjoy flying the game, but it is supposed to be a simulation.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

I know a few people, including myself have been doing this since the final patch. I mostly only ever use three main RPM settings,

Take-Off: 3000 RPM, Rads: Open.
Climb / Dogfight: 2850 RPM, Rads: 50%
Cruise / 10k+: 2600 RPM, Rads: 50%

Highest I ever made it was 29k at 80 knots. I hear so many people saying that it doesn't perform above 20k, but I can pull around 240mph right up to 24 or 25k. The only reason I stayed low was because of my problems spotting dots, but now I can see them, I tend to be up there a lot more when I need to.

[=AN=Felipe]

Salute AN=Felipe

The Spit IIA had a recommended max climb setting of 2850 rpm and +9 boost, with the recommended speed of 186mph at sea level, gradually dropping with altitude.

And perhaps it is better to climb at 2600 rpm at some alts, but again, that is a compensation for the poor modelling.

Hey Buzz thx for your reply! Nice to see you flying! Really good pilot =)

So... 2850rpm +9 PSI boost its not for normal climb, if you check the manual you'll see 2850rpm its a militar power, so when i cut and past a part of manual, you can read 2850 +9 PSI up to 13k ft (rated altitude) and 160mph its a best speed climb for "combat conditions" up 13k ft. Watch out when you put your engine to run at 2850rpm for normal climb under 13k ft... I dont know if its is modeling in this game, but i saw many times, frinds of mine, damaging their engines becouse they dont respect the operational limits, using 2800 2900 rpm to climb result in high temperatures in cruise... (its anormal behavior, i think its a kind of damage, reducing the life time of Merlin XII)

I know a few people, including myself have been doing this since the final patch. I mostly only ever use three main RPM settings,

Take-Off: 3000 RPM, Rads: Open.
Climb / Dogfight: 2850 RPM, Rads: 50%
Cruise / 10k+: 2600 RPM, Rads: 50%

Highest I ever made it was 29k at 80 knots. I hear so many people saying that it doesn't perform above 20k, but I can pull around 240mph right up to 24 or 25k. The only reason I stayed low was because of my problems spotting dots, but now I can see them, I tend to be up there a lot more when I need to.

Hey Slip how you doing mate? You should ask for more bombers to fly with you for level bombing at 20k+ , it will be an honor scort you and your mates!

I disagree in part of your three settings, firs of all, for best climb we have two settings, best climb for normal climb and best climb for militar climb ; In militar climb we use 2850rpm +9 PSI and 160mph in right spiral climb. Militar climb dont means you'll climb faster (high speed) means you climb with lower speed but with higher fpm, thats why you increase your rpm, this kind of settig should be used up to rated altitude (rated alt is 13k) tested and cheked, works... normal climb we dont have a "best" rpm setting, only best speeds of climb, so, we should use 2600rpm to reach high speeds befor acceleration, that change of 3000rpm when take off, 2800 after accelerate to 160mph and 2600rpm at final of leveling, its a prop manegement, gradually changes of fully fine to coarse position, like changing gears of a car.

So at normal climb, use that table, you'll climb faster... works...

In cruise, you have 2 tipes of cruise, normal and economical. In normal cruise you should run your engine to 2600rpm +3 PSI or +7 PSI (ill check this values ok?) and in economical cruise or weak cruise your engine must be setted to 2400rpm and under to +3 PSI with weak mixture (lean) (NEVER EXCEED +3PSI WHEN MIXTURE WEAK BEING USED, MAY CAUSE SEVERAL DAMAGES). Used for long cruises.

I use this weak cruise when im looking for enemys at 20k++, when i find they dive away... hehe =)

About rad positions, i dont belive 50% rad at climb and combat its a good thing to do, maybe in cruise settings up to 20k+, you should not enter in a combat with your temperature engine close to limit, i prefer mantain lower temperature to use full power in combat situations or very very hard climbs...

Its a little more complex this kind of management, but works pretty good so far with me and AN pilots, you should test, will work good with you too =) (Im just following the manual, real manual)

Only one more curiosity (lol name of mars robo haha sorry for the joke ), Spitfire top speed was reached when you use 2850rpm under 13k ft, the engineers notice this behavior in Merling engines, so in this rpm setting you are using all your horse power, and no with 3000rpm which almost people think, thats why you use this setting (2850) to combat climb and combat situations, but it variates in dog fight, dont run your engine 2850 all the time in combat or will explode!

Its just my point of view, ok? dont be mad! ^^

Hope be clear with my bad english haha, im learning with you guys! =)

[=AN=Felipe]

Guys im at work before a great holliday haha, and im surfing in internet and reading something, i find this real trials for climb at IIa Spitfire...

Compare with my datas =)

Sem título.jpg
Site: Spitfire performance

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Hey Slip how you doing mate? You should ask for more bombers to fly with you for level bombing at 20k+ , it will be an honor scort you and your mates!

I disagree in part of your three settings, firs of all, for best climb we have two settings, best climb for normal climb and best climb for militar climb ; In militar climb we use 2850rpm +9 PSI and 160mph in right spiral climb. Militar climb dont means you'll climb faster (high speed) means you climb with lower speed but with higher fpm, thats why you increase your rpm, this kind of settig should be used up to rated altitude (rated alt is 13k) tested and cheked, works... normal climb we dont have a "best" rpm setting, only best speeds of climb, so, we should use 2600rpm to reach high speeds befor acceleration, that change of 3000rpm when take off, 2800 after accelerate to 160mph and 2600rpm at final of leveling, its a prop manegement, gradually changes of fully fine to coarse position, like changing gears of a car.

So at normal climb, use that table, you'll climb faster... works...

In cruise, you have 2 tipes of cruise, normal and economical. In normal cruise you should run your engine to 2600rpm +3 PSI or +7 PSI (ill check this values ok?) and in economical cruise or weak cruise your engine must be setted to 2400rpm and under to +3 PSI with weak mixture (lean) (NEVER EXCEED +3PSI WHEN MIXTURE WEAK BEING USED, MAY CAUSE SEVERAL DAMAGES). Used for long cruises.

I use this weak cruise when im looking for enemys at 20k++, when i find they dive away... hehe =)

About rad positions, i dont belive 50% rad at climb and combat its a good thing to do, maybe in cruise settings up to 20k+, you should not enter in a combat with your temperature engine close to limit, i prefer mantain lower temperature to use full power in combat situations or very very hard climbs...

Its a little more complex this kind of management, but works pretty good so far with me and AN pilots, you should test, will work good with you too =) (Im just following the manual, real manual)

Only one more curiosity (lol name of mars robo haha sorry for the joke ), Spitfire top speed was reached when you use 2850rpm under 13k ft, the engineers notice this behavior in Merling engines, so in this rpm setting you are using all your horse power, and no with 3000rpm which almost people think, thats why you use this setting (2850) to combat climb and combat situations, but it variates in dog fight, dont run your engine 2850 all the time in combat or will explode!

Its just my point of view, ok? dont be mad! ^^

Hope be clear with my bad english haha, im learning with you guys! =)

Hi Felipe,

Thing is with the Blenheim, is I don't know exactly how good the bombsite would work at those altitudes. or if I'd be able to see the target without actually being on top of it. I've tried level bombing at 5 - 6k feet, and its worked ok after a few tries. Its can be a handful even then trimming it to go straight and level. That's why I fly on the deck and skip-bomb usually, its fast in, precision strike, and fast out again, But I'd be willing to try it out, might take me 45 mins to get up there though lol.

Your Spitfire military climb settings are what I use to climb out, I usually go which to 2600RPM after 10k ft in the Spitfire IIA because it seems to overheat very quickly above that altitude. I've never really paid too much attention to boost settings apart from dropping them back when the engine gets hot, so I'm looking forward to trying them out.
Likewise with the weak mixture, I couldn't see dots clearly below me until recently so I never really cruised above 20k until the last two weeks, so I look forward to trying it out too. I have pilots notes for most of the Spitfire models, but I need to print them. I didn't really bother referencing them in flight earlier because of the problems with the simulations flight model & the fact that most people are running full throttle most of the time. (Just look how I fly the Blenheim, full throttle, boost, 35 rad, all the way ).
As for the 2850 in combat, Its more dog fighting I use that setting for because I'm usually adjusting the throttle.

I'm not going to get mad over an informative post Felipe, . We enjoy flying and we are discussing it as the pilots in the war would have done.
Besides, I have a huge amount of respect for you & your squadron for taking the time to come and escort a lone bomber to target and helping me take out the objectives, which some people forget is the whole point of the game.
I want to mention that the formation you guys flew was so tight and well coordinated, it looked and sounded incredible, for sure any 109's looking for an easy target that day, would have had a shock to see a squadron of Spitfires covering me.
And not just that, your professionalism and respectfulness to others in the community is something you guys should be very proud of.

Its a privilege and pleasure to fly with you!

[=AN=Felipe]

The privilege is ours!

its a huge honor for us when one bomber, or more, ask for scort or give us a chance to do it!

You can count with us!

thx Slip! Im very happy

[92 Sqn. Folmar (QJ-F)]

Check this out. Was done on your server several months ago, just for fun. This is the highest I have ever been able to get since I started the high altitude testing of the Supermarine Spit IIa. This was done with a full combat loadout and full fuel. In witness to this was Pstyle.

spithigh2.jpg

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

Guys im at work before a great holliday haha, and im surfing in internet and reading something, i find this real trials for climb at IIa Spitfire...

Compare with my datas =)

Sem título.jpg
Site: Spitfire performance

Hmmm.
2 minutes (an additional 30%) slower to 15k,
4 minutes (an additional 55%) slower to 20k
7.5 minutes (an additional 75%) slower to 25k

Pretty shocking comparison.

[danperin]

Mates, a noob question, when i'm above 5 kilometers with the 109, after some minutes, my engine overheat and everything starts to shake, so what's the correct management for high altitudes?
I need to keep my oil radiator 50% open in the 109 with the collant radiator fully opened?

Thanks in advance!

[ATAG_Colander]

Mates, a noob question, when i'm above 5 kilometers with the 109, after some minutes, my engine overheat and everything starts to shake, so what's the correct management for high altitudes?
I need to keep my oil radiator 50% open in the 109 with the collant radiator fully opened?

Thanks in advance!

As a rule of thumb, try to keep your rads 100% open unless you are doing 400Kph or more.

[danperin]

As a rule of thumb, try to keep your rads 100% open unless you are doing 400Kph or more.

Thanks, Colander!

I usually fly with my throttle at 100% and high prop pitch all the time (10h30 or above)! Too rush to get to the british side, i need to calm down haha.

[9./JG52 Jamz Dackel]

Thanks, Colander!

I usually fly with my throttle at 100% and high prop pitch all the time (10h30 or above)! Too rush to get to the british side, i need to calm down haha.

Lol...Yea that will kill it pretty quickly and the mechanics back at the fatherland will have your head on a stick..

Try and reduce your throttle to 1.3Ata and adjust your prop pitch to 22/23RPM when cruising obviously depending on ALt but your prop pitch (clock) will probably be around 9:30

Radiator is fine at 75% and oil 65% for most situations...unless your howling for the deck being chased then close all Rads providing your doing 400kph+ she will last

Rule of thumb.. full throttle and full Prop pitch does not make you go faster .. keeping it at 23RPM and 1.3.ATA does

hth

[danperin]

Lol...Yea that will kill it pretty quickly and the mechanics back at the fatherland will have your head on a stick..

Try and reduce your throttle to 1.3Ata and adjust your prop pitch to 22/23RPM when cruising obviously depending on ALt but your prop pitch (clock) will probably be around 9:30

Radiator is fine at 75% and oil 65% for most situations...unless your howling for the deck being chased then close all Rads providing your doing 400kph+ she will last

Rule of thumb.. full throttle and full Prop pitch does not make you go faster .. keeping it at 23RPM and 1.3.ATA does

hth

Oh, i need to keep more attention to the pitch indeed, too much E-4 with auto pitch made me lazy! But, just to assure, above 5 kilometers or more, with the 109, i don't need to manage my engine in a much different or specific way, that's correct?

[ATAG_Colander]

FYI you can squeeze more out of the E4 if you go with manual prop pitch control.
I tend to turn auto only under specific circumstances, like a big furball where your attention has to be in your SA more than in your engine controls.

[danperin]

FYI you can squeeze more out of the E4 if you go with manual prop pitch control.
I tend to turn auto only under specific circumstances, like a big furball where your attention has to be in your SA more than in your engine controls.

Oh, i didn't tried to manually control the E-4 yet. That's something i will certainly try!

Thank you mates!

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Mates, a noob question, when i'm above 5 kilometers with the 109, after some minutes, my engine overheat and everything starts to shake, so what's the correct management for high altitudes?
I need to keep my oil radiator 50% open in the 109 with the collant radiator fully opened?

Thanks in advance!

Please take the time to look at the flight manuals in the Team Fusion Wiki page:

http://www.theairtacticalassaultgrou...u.php?id=start

[danperin]

Please take the time to look at the flight manuals in the Team Fusion Wiki page:

http://www.theairtacticalassaultgrou...u.php?id=start

Thank you Buzzsaw!

I always look at the Wiki, but i never discussed about the engine managements with anybody, my english is ok but i'm shy
to speak in the Teamspeak channel when i'm playing in the server or even post something here! Silly me, i'm trying to get rid
of that and i will start to annoy you guys asking everything about engine management on the TS! Just kidding!


Thank you again mates!!!

[ATAG_Colander]

Thank you Buzzsaw!

I always look at the Wiki, but i never discussed about the engine managements with anybody, my english is ok but i'm shy
to speak in the Teamspeak channel when i'm playing in the server or even post something here! Silly me, i'm trying to get rid
of that and i will start to annoy you guys asking everything about engine management on the TS! Just kidding!


Thank you again mates!!!

Danperin,

Think of it as a good way to practice english
Anyway, there are several Portuguese speaking people in TS, some even from Brazil. You might even want to look for the existing Brazilian squadrons.

[danperin]

Danperin,

Think of it as a good way to practice english
Anyway, there are several Portuguese speaking people in TS, some even from Brazil. You might even want to look for the existing Brazilian squadrons.

I will!

[danperin]

Mates,

Thank you for all your attention! I don't know if you guys like to download singleplayer missions, but about some months ago i started to create some missions
and uploaded it into the airwarfare.com missions section, take a look here: http://www.airwarfare.com/sow/index....layer-missions


My missions have this kind of screenshot description: lewesattack_low.jpg kill_the_spy_0.jpg blenheim_reconnaissance_low.jpg night_attack_low.jpg attack_the_destroyer_low17.jpg

Here some skins i made: screen20.jpg blenheim_recon3.jpg

Oh, i have made some single/coop/multiplayer missions too: http://www.airwarfare.com/sow/index....f-britain-1940 bob1940.jpg

If you guys try some of this missions i would be proud! And if possible, give some feedback if they work well!

Cheers!