All about Mosquito bite´s

[Ekko]

I wonder if someone out there is looking forward to when the Mosquito arrives(i don´t know if she is on the way do!) But when she does
(she will! i hope) i will have a spitfire for sale..

aaggh! maybe keeping it for some new year Fox/hound fun

Maybe the Mosquito is not yet in Team Fusion´s work progress(Thank you team fusion) and that is not what this is about

It´s just all them things that this girl has to offer...where she was born, made of wood, kick like a mule, the speed and curves like Serena
Williams Der Dicke was interrupted while spitting in the microphone in Berlin.
Copenhagen(Denmark) had more the one visit from this angry lady

Jeff de Havilland have a seat next to R. J. Mitchell in my diary

Give your love to wooden wonder here

[SIA_Sp00k]

My favourite aircraft. You have my vote!

[BlackTop]

+1

My favourite to!

[ATAG_Highseas]

A while back on of the TF guys posted a few shots of plane models deep in the code of cliffs that are unfinished, presumably were intended to be in game at some future date

One of them is an Autogyro

EEK !!

[Marco]

In my opinion it was about the most versatile plane of WW2 and for a while after - bomber, fighter, night-fighter, intruder, sub killer, photo-recce.

Definitely a plane for 'all seasons' and my abiding passion!

To have this in CloD and DCS and maybe one day, a real flying back in the skies of England ... Well wouldn't that be something!!

~S~

[SIA_Sp00k]

I could be wrong (mainly because I'm to lazy to search the Internet) but I thought the Kiwi's or Canucks had one flying?

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

In my opinion, the Mossie was the most beautiful twin made.

There are two flying Mossies around... one in New Zealand, one in Canada.

The Canadian aircraft is the bomber version:



Some pics of the restoration:

http://www.vicair.net/mosquito.html

The NZ aircraft is a Fighter-Bomber... nice in cockpit video:



There are a number of non-flying examples around, including in the UK... some rumours one might be restored to flying.

And yes... TF would love to build a virtual Mossie... but won't be for quite a while if it does happen.

The good news... The Beau is just as much fun to fly, although obviously not as fast up high... but nearly as fast at sea level.

[Ekko]

In my opinion, the Mossie was the most beautiful twin made.

YES! A lady with style

And yes... TF would love to build a virtual Mossie... but won't be for quite a while if it does happen.

I think/hope your pulling our leg`s! Buzz and Highseas have already catapulted rumours out there

A while back on of the TF guys posted a few shots of plane models deep in the code of cliffs that are unfinished, presumably were intended to be in game at some future date

Thank you Team Fusion
Thank you Puma

[Ekko]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzMm4WyNt4E

Gaining Altitude: The Mosquito Reborn - Trailer

[farley]

Can someone enlighten me (Buzz, this might be right up your alley...); if the Mosquito was so fast, and could carry 4,000 lbs of bombs, which i believe is what the B17 could carry, why didn't they mass produce the Mossie and send hundreds of them on bombing raids, instead of all the B17's?

I mean when they lost over 600 men in a day due to downed B17's, it just seems they had a better machine for the job - faster, more maneuverable, able to drop it's load and then strafe on the way home, and a loss of two men if downed instead of ten.....

This question keeps me awake at night sometimes, so thought i would ask people who might have some thoughts on it.
Mossie.jpg VS download (1).jpg

[ATAG_Marlow]

Can someone enlighten me (Buzz, this might be right up your alley...); if the Mosquito was so fast, and could carry 4,000 lbs of bombs, which i believe is what the B17 could carry, why didn't they mass produce the Mossie and send hundreds of them on bombing raids, instead of all the B17's?

I mean when they lost over 600 men in a day due to downed B17's, it just seems they had a better machine for the job - faster, more maneuverable, able to drop it's load and then strafe on the way home, and a loss of two men if downed instead of ten.....

This question keeps me awake at night sometimes, so thought i would ask people who might have some thoughts on it.
Mossie.jpg VS download (1).jpg

Hi Farley...that's a really interesting question. I may be wide of the mark but possibly the American's wouldn't be too happy if we said we didn't want the help of their B17's, especially after working so hard to persuade the Americans to join the war in the first place. I think American pride might have been hurt if we had disparaged the hitting power of the mighty Flying Fortress and that wouldn't have helped the war effort. Besides, all the infrastructure for the 8th Air Force had arrived in Britain by the end of 1942 and it would seem unthinkable not to then use it.

I also think it may have been quite difficult to produce enough Mosquitoes to complete the task because, although cheap to make, they were complicated to manufacture, being more like highly strung pianos than metal aircraft and requiring a skilled workforce. I wonder if the raw woods required in manufacture were hard to come by, what with the Battle of the Atlantic making it hard for us to acquire stocks of timber.

I must confess, I am just thinking 'off the top of my head' here...feel free to 'shoot me down,' fellers! (Let's face it.....I'm quite used to it! ) Ha ha! Salute!

[ATAG_Ezzie]

The USAAC/USAAF had staked their future independance from the US Army on strategic bombing and the B17 was an important part of this.

I think this issue is discussed briefly in 'The right of the line' an excellent hisory of the RAF leading up to and during WW2. If i get a chance i will see if i can find it. But could be mistaken.

Ezzie

[DOWNEAST]

My understanding is the laminated wood construction did not hold up well in the high humidity far east Burma campaign.

[ATAG_Headshot]

I believe that they actually removed the guns from the bomber version, so strafing on the way home wouldn't work. I've often wondered why they weren't used more myself... We have one of these at my local aviation museum and it really is a beautiful bird!

[DerDa]

I do not have a lot of info on this, so (as usual) don't take me too serious.
As far as I understand some Mossies were converted to be able to carry one single high-explosive 4000 lb bomb of the 'cookie' type.
I do not know, how this affected the flight characteristics but you can be sure it did!

The B 17s could carry 4500 lb on long range missions and almost double on short range. When they arrived in Europe many targets were not that far away. Also they could carry different types of bombs and many of them. If you want to destroy larger areas of a target you prefer many smaller bombs to one single big one. Especially the combination of explosive and incendiary bombs was used to destroy large areas of buildings, the resulting fires often doing more damage than the explosions.

Another reason for the big bomber raids was to lure the German fighters into the air. A large formation of B 17s with all their firepower plus several hundred escort fighters were just perfect for the job.

[BOO]

you could list a 100 reasons why not but a simple "it wasn't designed (and couldn't) to do the job or take the losses that the B17 and 24 and their crews did" is all that is required really.

[ATAG_Marlow]

My understanding is the laminated wood construction did not hold up well in the high humidity far east Burma campaign.

I think you're absolutely right here, DOWNEAST.

I read somewhere that the humid atmosphere in the Far East caused havoc with the Mosquito's structure. The wood laminate literally went mouldy in the damp air and compromised structural strength. I don't know if it caused any losses but certainly the Mosquito was withdrawn to drier climates and other aircraft types replaced it.
I have to say after watching 633 Squadron at the age of 8 I have always been in awe of this aircraft and wish there were more around. Of course, there might have been if they hadn't been destroyed in the making of the film. Shame. Salute!

[9./JG52_Meyer]

No mossies here in Crete just sun and beer

Hals und beinbruch

[Marco]

The USAAC/USAAF had staked their future independance from the US Army on strategic bombing and the B17 was an important part of this.

I think this issue is discussed briefly in 'The right of the line' an excellent hisory of the RAF leading up to and during WW2. If i get a chance i will see if i can find it. But could be mistaken.

Ezzie

The US had a representative at a Mosquito demo in 1941 and he was apparently impressed enough to report back home. However the USAAF didn't get their hands on any examples until late 1942 which were a couple from England and then later in 1943 they acquired some from DH Canada on a reverse Lend-Lease deal with the British Government, I believe.

These mosquitos were designated F.8 by the USAAF and were used for photo-recon and weather-recon by the 8th Air Force in England, never as fast bombers.

~S~

[Marco]

My understanding is the laminated wood construction did not hold up well in the high humidity far east Burma campaign.

The glue originally used in the construction of the Mossie was casein (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casein) based and the laminations tended to come apart in humid conditions.

The glue was changed to a formaldehyde based type for tropical use after some unexplained crashes blamed on casein glue use in these conditions.

~S~

[69th_Zeb]

If you're interested in some reading, some of you should check out ANC-18. It's a beautifully illustrated plywood structures manual from 1944. After thousands of years of shipbuilding, you wonder just how much of the science is lost.

Didn't know about that Marco. Maybe that's why many Mossie examples didn't make it to today?

Homebuilders will make the mistake of building their aircraft in an extremely dry, heated shed and when they get ready to pull out and fly it just potato-chips everywhere, ripping itself apart. Mostly due to the fact that they were improperly sealed. If the wood is sealed at the correct moisture level it is quite stable. Wartime production and the training of new builders probably ended up leaving some undesirable effects.

Looking forward to Beaufighters!

[Vlerkies]

All about Mosquito bite´s

[Marco]

Homebuilders will make the mistake of building their aircraft in an extremely dry, heated shed and when they get ready to pull out and fly it just potato-chips everywhere, ripping itself apart. Mostly due to the fact that they were improperly sealed. If the wood is sealed at the correct moisture level it is quite stable. Wartime production and the training of new builders probably ended up leaving some undesirable effects.

I think that, at the end of the day, a lot of problems from building with wood today stem (no pun intended!) from the fact that there is no time to allow the wood to season properly - it is an in demand item, but a relatively slow produced product. The result of this is that there is still too much moisture in the wood and it hasn't finished 'moving' / bending / warping before it is used.

Note: I am not a carpenter or anything to do with the lumber trade, I just love wood and I feel today's speed of production has lost yesterday's charm and longevity!

With regard to the Mosquito and wartime production, this was turned over to cabinet makers and furniture makers so as not to further burden the engineering shops and producers and thereby bringing another trade or two into the war effort. These people knew the material they were working with and, couple that with the concrete moulds used, there would not have been too much training of new builders. Undesirable effects, however, did creep in to a certain extent through using products more suited to a different industry...ain't hindsight wonderful?

Unfortunately, today, this is all becoming a lost art!

~S~

[Marco]

I do not have a lot of info on this, so (as usual) don't take me too serious.
As far as I understand some Mossies were converted to be able to carry one single high-explosive 4000 lb bomb of the 'cookie' type.
I do not know, how this affected the flight characteristics but you can be sure it did!

The B 17s could carry 4500 lb on long range missions and almost double on short range. When they arrived in Europe many targets were not that far away. Also they could carry different types of bombs and many of them. If you want to destroy larger areas of a target you prefer many smaller bombs to one single big one. Especially the combination of explosive and incendiary bombs was used to destroy large areas of buildings, the resulting fires often doing more damage than the explosions.

Another reason for the big bomber raids was to lure the German fighters into the air. A large formation of B 17s with all their firepower plus several hundred escort fighters were just perfect for the job.

The Mossie could indeed carry a single tightly fitting 4000lb bomb, or those particular mosquitos could also carry an alternative load of 500lb bombs on an Avro bomb carrier and also bombs on hard points under the wings.

When it comes to the B17 instead of Mosquito question I think you are correct when you suggest the loading of smaller bombs to create a firestorm effect. I am sure this was the idea behind the carpet bombing strategy - let the fire do the work!

The big bombs were generally used for specific targets that would have suited the precision bombing of the Mossie crews.

~S~

[Marco]

Initially (early 1944) the Cookie (AKA the ‘Dangerous Dustbin’) was carried by modified B.IVs having had their bomb bays strengthened and bomb doors redesigned, although they only just managed to carry it! Modified B.IVs continued to be the ‘cookie-carrier’ of choice until the B.XVI high altitude Mossie with its more powerful Merlins came along in the spring of 44.
On a personal note, I feel that the bulging bomb bay necessary to accommodate the cookie ruins the shape of the Mossie!!

I have tried to find some specifics relating to performance degradation whilst carrying the cookie, but have been unable to find any figures.
I have, however, found an interesting report by ‘Benny’ Goodman, 627 Squadron of flying in the B.IV cookie-carrier with cookie. I hope you find it interesting…

Our CO announced that we were to fly the ‘Cookie-carrier’ as much as possible and the most experienced crews were detailed to take her on normal operations. The night arrived when ‘Bill’ Hickox and I were ordered to try our hand with this new machine on a target in the Ruhr. The aircraft looked like a pregnant lady, because its belly was markedly rotund. Take off was not difficult, but quite definitely she was not a scalded cat. As soon as her tail came up I pushed the throttles quickly forward to the gate (plus 9lb boost, 3000rpm) and then clenched my left hand over the gate catch releases and eased the throttles to the fully open position (plus 12lb boost, 3000rpm). In ‘G-George’ this would have resulted in a glorious acceleration and a hop, skip, and jump into the air. Not so with our pregnant lady; she waddled along and took most of the runway before she deigned to unstick. Moreover, the climb was a sedate affair and we took much longer to reach 25,000ft than our usual steed; and when we arrived there she took a long time to settle to a steady cruise. However, we eventually sorted ourselves out and headed resolutely for the Ruhr.
In the target area I felt distinctly nervous – there we were, with the bomb doors open and Bill droning away with his ‘Left, left…right…steady’ and I just knew that every gunner in the Ruhr could see the enormous bomb we were carrying and was determined to explode it and blow us to smithereens. I looked at the bomb jettison handle in front of me – no delicate lever this; it was a solid bar of metal which, if moved, would manually release the massive catch holding the ‘Cookie’ and down the bomb would go. If the bomb doors had not been opened, that was hard luck – the ‘Cookie’ would still drop away and take the bomb doors with it! However, no such inglorious thing happened. Bill suddenly announce, ‘Bomb gone’, and as he did so the Mossie suddenly shot up like a lift. There was no delicate porpoising, as with four 500 pounders; the altimeter moved instantly through 500ft of altitude. I had never seen anything like this before. More importantly, as soon as I had closed the bomb doors our fat little lady became almost a normal Mosquito and accelerated to a fast cruising speed.’

This extract came from the book ‘De Havilland Mosquito’ by Martin W. Bowman, one of several Mossie history books written by him.

~S~

[DerDa]

Thanks for sharing!
Very interesting read.
I don't know when exactly this happened, but please note, that the only source of danger mentioned is the flak. It seemes that at this point German fighters were no longer any real concern.

[69th_Zeb]

That was cool info Marco. Will have to check out that book sometime!

[Marco]

Thanks for sharing!
Very interesting read.
I don't know when exactly this happened, but please note, that the only source of danger mentioned is the flak. It seemes that at this point German fighters were no longer any real concern.

With regard to date, after a bit of research I can narrow it down for you. I have found a slightly longer version of the quoted anecdote which states early spring of 1944 (http://www.627squadron.co.uk/afs-boo...-Affection.htm). On 15 April 1944 627 Squadron was transferred to 5 Group as a specialist low-level target marking squadron (http://www.historyofwar.org/air/units/RAF/627_wwII.html). So if we take spring as being March - May, the bomb drop must have been sometime during March to 15th April 1944.
As far as nightfighter interception goes unless on low level work, bombing was done from an altitude as far as possible out of reach of the fighters. It is also possible that this drop was part of a diversionary raid or a nuisance raid, as that's what the Light Night Strike Force (627 Squadron prior to reposting in April 1944) were for which would have split an already stretched air cover. Then again there might have been a little bit of fighter interference which probably gave up as they approached the area due to the heavy flak. Finally as you say German fighters at this point were no longer of any real concern due to dwindling numbers, fuel shortages and pilot attrition.

For anyone interested J. R. 'Benny' Goodman retired in 1976 ending his career with the rank of Group Captain and died August 13th 2007, here is a link to his obituary:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obit...y-Goodman.html

A very interesting read about a great pilot!

~S~

[Vlerkies]

Very very nice video on the MkVIII Tseste with some static firing footage and pilot interviews.

[Vlerkies]