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Thread: Skinning colour space AdobeRGB1998 or sRGB ?

  1. #1
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    Skinning colour space AdobeRGB1998 or sRGB ?

    Hi,
    About to try my hand at skinning and stuck at first hurdle some may not even be aware of., unless they do colour work and graphics in a serious pro way.

    Should skins have an sRGB profile embedded or an AdobeRGB1998 profile ? This dictates the colour we see and what colour space we should work in when editing them.

    opening up a Cpt Farrel skin, Photoshop says convert to working colour space AdobeRGB1998 or dont colour manage. That is saying its not been created in AdobeRGB1998 and saved as such.

    I have my graphics, photo-library, photo-editing, video editing, CAD etc workstation PC setup as most who do this work have it, as AdobeRGB1998 as is the Digital SLR (DSLR) and scanner. We are told sRGB is wrong, must be AdobeRGB1998 for accurate and serious colour work, photography etc.

    My monitor is calibrated (new Eizo has a pop up device that does this, used to use a Spyder3) to 6500K AdobeRGB1998 and Photoshop has AdobeRGB1998 selected.

    So clearly CptFarrels skin is not the same colour space.

    Can I create skins in AdobeRGB1998 colour space ?

    Does the sim run in sRGB or AdobeRGB1998. My gut feeling is they went with the mundane standard for Joe Public before Joe P get wise to the colour space thing.

    If I design to AdobeRGB1998 will I get to see how it looks for other flight simmers ?

    Does my monitor fly the sim in sRGB yet show me AdobeRGB1998 for Photoshop ? Surely if its only calibrated to 6500K AdobeRGB1998 it will portray colours as such ?

    I would imagine many simmers dont even run a calibrated monitor if they dont use it for their day job of graphics etc., so it wont be AdobeRGB1998.

    But what should the sim have skins colour profile as ?

    I open a skinners file in mediaInfo prog and colour space is YUV, google says this YUV is for video cards.

    I open a jpg saved in Photoshop AdobeRGB1998 mode and it also is YUV, a photoshop file is said to be RGB by the same prog. I open a few more skinners files, all ask for permission to convert to AdobeRGB1998 so what colour space are they worked on and saved as ?

    Furthermore I have just created RGB values for all the Luftwaffe colour charts I have, Merrick, Kookaburra, Ullman etc. as AdobeRGB1998. One reason to create colour profiles in photoshop, which must be AdobeRGB1998 for correct colour printing, also to create skins from.

    BOBC
    Last edited by BOBC; Dec-30-2016 at 15:16.

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    ATAG_Colander's Avatar
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    Re: Skinning colour space AdobeRGB1998 or sRGB ?

    None of the above. Plain old RGB with 255 possible values for each color.
    In fact, some textures, when compressed, loose quality (see This Link for more information)

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    Re: Skinning colour space AdobeRGB1998 or sRGB ?

    Hi,
    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander View Post
    None of the above. Plain old RGB with 255 possible values for each color.
    In fact, some textures, when compressed, loose quality (see This Link for more information)
    can you clarify, as if its not sRGB or Adobe RGB, and it cant be old fashioned index256 as thats a nightmare to work with and went out yrs ago, what is it ?

    Not sure what option to pick. Photoshop has either RGB or index colour to select in image type. In Color Settings there are many choices, all gets very complex in there.

    I open up both an original default skin and a Cpt Farrel skin in photoshop and document properties at screen base tells me its an untagged RGB, 8bpc (8 bits per channel) I also see he used Photoshop CS4 from what it tells me.
    Google this and other folk are asking what does untagged RGB mean, get told maybe as its got both an RGb and CMYK profile its confused and called untagged. I open a photo saved in AdobeRGB1998 and doc profile says AdobeRGB1998 so the internet is wrong on that one.

    and after telling it to not convert to AdobeRGB1998, and looking in Image type, it says its RGB, 8 bits/channel, it doesnt say Index colour.

    The days of index colour were a nightmare as we only had 256 colours in the entire palette. One had to make Luft colours up by mixing different pixels together in a chessboard pattern, such days are history thank god.

    I have created a test skin and flown it both as dont convert to AdobeRGB, and also converted it to AdobeRGB, both flew and worked fine.

    Just what do I save it as to get neither sRGB or AdobeRGB ? This is very important to anyone doing skinning with Photoshop.

    I am also however trying to find out quite why I have a moire effect , like 'ripples in the sand' slightly darker lines across my skins, visible when sim paused and rotating aircraft in external view up close.
    To test if its the profile I ran my 'CoD original install ' and such effect is there on the original CoD skins as well.
    As its doing so on an original skin in original CoD its not my skin as cause.

    I see no such effect in ETO CFS3, and I am now going to test BoB WoV II (Shockwave Productions).

    All that is different is a new monitor, same make as previous, same resolution, and designed for video editing, £1200 so shouldnt be the monitor.

    As its not doing so in CFS3, though CFS3 isnt running at same quality as CoD, I am wondering whats going on.

    BOBC
    Last edited by BOBC; Dec-31-2016 at 12:57.

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    Re: Skinning colour space AdobeRGB1998 or sRGB ?

    Not 256 colors but 256 Reds, 256 Greens and 256 Blues (24 bits per pixel) and in some cases 256 transparency (32 bits per pixel).

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    Re: Skinning colour space AdobeRGB1998 or sRGB ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander View Post
    Not 256 colors but 256 Reds, 256 Greens and 256 Blues (24 bits per pixel) and in some cases 256 transparency (32 bits per pixel).
    Hi,

    Do you use photoshop ?

    How do I save a file to suit that config in Photoshop ? As normal I reckon.

    One normally works in 8bit/channel RGB mode, thats 16.7 million colours, and 256x256 x256 = 16.7mill

    When these images open up as untagged RGB, they will get a RGB profile saved with them, that's how photoshop works I am told.

    I also gather that even if I choose 'leave as is' Pshop will in fact allocated the working space RGB (in my case AdobeRGB) to the file anyway !
    I could choose sRGB from the third option 'assign profile' and I see in there near top sRGB IEC61966-2.1 as well as e-sRGB lower down, but doing so when screen calibrated to AdobeRGB is stirring up trouble methinks.

    BOBC

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    Re: Skinning colour space AdobeRGB1998 or sRGB ?

    Hi,
    I have no plain old RGB colourspace option to choose in photoshop.
    So do you skinners use AdobeRGB1998 colourspace or sRGB colourspace in photoshop ? and how do you save a file ?

    I make screenshots in the sim, I also photographed the screen on 'sun' setting on my Canon EOS 70D
    If I open the screenshot into Photoshop when its colour space is AdobeRGB1998, colours look like those I just have been viewing in the sim. so AdobeRGB1998 matches my CoD experience colours.

    If I photograph(sun setting) that image in Photoshop it also looks like the photo I took when in the sim. Further proof !

    Thus its AdobeRGB1998 colours in use, or is that because my monitor is set to target AdobeRGB1998 ?
    If someone else had not set their monitor to a graphics photo editing true life colour target which AdobeRGB1998 is, they might be viewing duller muted 'non true life' colours in CoD if the monitor came set to sRGB out of the box.

    If I alter Photoshop to the only other colourspace I am aware of as being a normal option, that of sRGB and bring in the screenshot it looks different to what colours I saw in the SIM.

    So on that observation the sim is not using sRGB, or it is and having my monitor set to AdobeRGB1998 its then altering sim colours to something more true to life.

    HOWEVER thats not possible as once something is in sRGB values it cant be made more true to life.

    I opened an AdobeRGB1998 photo into sRGB colour working space, saw the colours get muted a bit, saved it as sRGB then opened it back up into AdobeRGB1998 and it was still the muted colours.
    Thus sRGB kills off permanently the greater gamut values. Its forever 'ruined'

    So trying to work in sRGB colourspace is not allowing me to see how CoD displays it, but that then allows me to save in sRGB, but I am told save in neither sRGB or AdobeRGB, thats the bit thats got me stumped.

    As the only other RGB colourspace normally available to us is AdobeRGB1998, and we have to pick that or sRGB, I am a loss to know which colourspace to be editing in, and also which target calibration for the monitor to pick, again monitors are either sRGB or AdobeRGB1998 to those of us that do colour work. I cant remember if my Eizo came with just an sRGB target or had both sRGB and Adobe1998. There is no 'plain old RGB' option on it though.

    So which colour setting do I choose from the image shown here, and how do I save a file to be 'plain old RGB' ?
    [IMG][/IMG]
    [IMG][/IMG]

    BOBC
    Last edited by BOBC; Jan-13-2019 at 12:37.

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