Spit- port window

[CCR]

One of those " I wonder why " questions.
I seen it modeled may times over many sims but never asked why....

On the port window, there is an oval cut out that has been covered over and fastened shut.
Why?

I'm guessing it was openable ( is that a word? ) originally but caused some type of problem.....

[SabrePig]

One of those " I wonder why " questions.
I seen it modeled may times over many sims but never asked why....

On the port window, there is an oval cut out that has been covered over and fastened shut.
Why?

I'm guessing it was openable ( is that a word? ) originally but caused some type of problem.....

I believe it could be knocked out to help defrost/demist/deice the canopy and windscreen during flight.

[farley]

I think it was put in so they could go through a drive thorough for coffee or a burger or whatever........


Would you like fries with that answer?

[1lokos]

From some plastic model forum:

"I found reference to the panel, in official documents, which said that it was to allow an inrush of air, to clear the instrument faces, if they'd misted over.
Realisation then dawned, since I realised that you never see the window in aircraft with pressurised cockpits, and, being flat, it couldn't have been fitted to the later blown hoods, either."

[klu.peete]

Me was told a weak spot for getting out.. I alwais thought.. Wat a strange story.. It's to smal to escape..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn D6603 met Tapatalk

[1lokos]

Other possible use:

"The oval panel was a knock-out to equalise the air pressure within the cockpit and outside to make it easier for the pilot to open the canopy whilst flying at speed.
It was added after pilots passed word on about the difficulty of opening the canopy at high speeds."

But: "The " emergency break-out panel" was introduced from 19-5-38, and deleted, on the Mk.V, from 3-11-41."

[CCR]

Thanks all,

I thought of fast food also, but then decided, no way was that available at the time.

Until i found this.
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-dri...-48340285.html

Perhaps the mk1 went stateside for evaluation & the pass through was invented.....

[1lokos]

Is for pass before scramble tea cups.

[Baffin]

From the Spitfire Flight Manual (Air Publication 1565B, July, 1940):

"37. A small knock-out panel for emergency use is provided on the port side of the hood."

All you have to do is figure out what an "Emergency" is. (Clean windscreen, open the hood, defrost instruments, pass a jar of Grey Poupon to your wingman...)

[1lokos]

And use that crow bar in cockpit door to knock-out this panel.

That seems painted in wrong color:

""Crowbars (only fitted to Spitfires from the Mk V onwards) were not painted red until after the war. During the war they were either silver (steel) or Interior Green, perhaps sometimes black). Its purpose was to help the pilot extract himself from the cockpit after an accident. After the war international agreements on safety decreed that safety equipment be painted red and the crowbar was considered to be an item of safety equipment. The rules are probably still in place which is why warbirds and museum examples have red crowbars.

The stencilling on the door comes in several variations and can also differ from factory to factory. It was invariably red. Often written upright and upside down so that it could be read from inside (looking down) and outside the cockpit."


http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazin...fire_ix_30.jpg

[DerDa]

Hi Lokos,


an interesting question about the crowbars. I posted this as a problem about two years ago.
Can you give me the source of this qoutation? I saw it before and tryed to verify it, but as far as a i could find out it boiled down to 'what somebody heard, a (unnamed) veteran said during a modelling show'.
The crowbars were definitely fitted into earlier Mk than V as well.

S!

DerDa

[1lokos]

Keypublishing - generally people there know what they're talking about.

http://forum.keypublishing.com/archi...p/t-90856.html

See in this topic too:

"Whatever you do dont paint the crowbar red!! Apparantly its a common mistake and WW2 spits would have had either a black or an RAF green one. "

http://www.swannysmodels.com/yabb2/Y...num=1303040909

Are several small details wrong in CloD cockpits - pointed before release (the guy as usual was called "rivets counter"), other example is the metal trim wheel in Hurricane, typical of Hurricanes send to Russia, not from B of B era.

[DerDa]

Yeah, that's just what I also found: people in forums qouting other people in forums.
When I built a Spit Mk. II someone came up with just the same quotes you mentioned.
In the end I found this link as one of the possible starters for 'no crowbars before Mk. V':
http://hyperscale.com/2007/features/...airfixbg_1.htm a
This is an article by a guy from Australia named Brett Green and naturally I contacted him.
He replied in a most friendly way with another quote:

""Here is what Spitfire expert Edgar Brooks had to say:
'Crowbars

Fittings,
for crowbars, were installed, on the I & II, from February, 1941,
and the crowbars, themselves, were factory­fitted from January, 1942
(mods 320 & 483 apply.) I read (somewhere!) that the positioning of
the stencils depended on the factory, and the Pilot's notes seem to bear
this out, with Spitfires generally having two stencils readable up or
down, with Seafires having a single stencil readable from the side. At a
model show, many years ago, a man (obviously an ex­pilot) commented to
me "All these lovely Spitfire models, but, you know, all the time that I
was flying I never saw a red crowbar; green, black, or silver, never
red." '

Hope this helps,
Brett
Brett Green - Editor
HyperScale
Missing-Lynx
Model Military International magazine
Military Illustrated Modeller (Aircraft Edition)"

Result (preliminary):
Crowbars were there in Mk. I and II from February 1941 onward.
From January 1942 onward they were factory fitted (not later during service).
The colour problem goes down to Edgar Brooks overhearing an unknown elderly gentlemen, he took for a veteran (pilot or not), at a model show, saying the crowbars were not red.
That was all information I could get and because of this I decided that my Spits Mk. I and II will have a crowbar and it will be red (because I never heard of any other of the many, many veterans complaining about the colour).

If anybody can contribute to this I would be extremely happy and naturally always prepared to change my opinion in the light of new facts.

S!

DerDa

[BOO]

I think it was put in so they could go through a drive thorough for coffee or a burger or whatever........


Would you like fries with that answer?

Then I demand TF fix the model - we clearly have the export LHD version!

[Baffin]

Competitive modelers used to be required to present "Documentation" authenticating the accuracy of the markings and details on their models... I'll bet they still are. The common thread is that the "Internet" is full of self-made "Experts" that spread Bovine Scat freely.

I think I'd consider an award winning scale modeller as reliable as any unofficial source. However, I still look for that OEM publication that was released to the users when the plane was made for the "real skinny".

Air Publication 1565B Pilot's Notes:

"On aeroplanes not fitted with a jettison type hood, a crowbar is provided to assist in jettisoning the hood."

[1lokos]

Supposedly filmed in Kenley in 1940, see the door - no crowbar, probable a training unit:

https://youtu.be/zGoKO3DmKEs?t=197

https://youtu.be/gj7z2UI6ZV8?t=123

https://youtu.be/EsJgn1Me5I0?t=295

https://youtu.be/UKJdVn2i8is?t=27

BTW - Perfect "Idioten Reihe" formation.

https://youtu.be/gj7z2UI6ZV8?t=199

Including the "weaver":

https://youtu.be/gj7z2UI6ZV8?t=232

[DerDa]

Thanks a lot Lokos, very interesting footage.

If it is 1940 it fits to 'fittings for crowbars were installed ... from February 1941.'
In this video https://youtu.be/UKJdVn2i8is?t=27 I can see one (but not the colour )

[1lokos]

In First Light footage they use the "right color", but in wrong Spitfire - since movie is set in 1940 - should have not the crowbar.

[Baffin]

Air Publication 1565B Pilot's Notes:

"On aeroplanes not fitted with a jettison type hood, a crowbar is provided to assist in jettisoning the hood."

[ATAG_Highseas]

I thought it was a universal crumpet hatch (UCH).

A crumpet can be passed in to the pilot.

And if crumpet walks past then the UCH panel is easily punched out and the pilot can extend his arm to perform a quick "hey Betty.... check me out!" type wave.

Handy feature.

[DerDa]

Always trying to increase my English proficiency I just checked some dictionaries for 'crumpet'.
I found that this word refers to a kind of soft pastry that might be toasted.

Well, if you need a crowbar for soft English pastry, maybe some of the prejudices about English cooking might not be completely ill-founded.

Knowing Highseas it is just unthinkable that he cold use the word in any other ... no, I don't believe it.


By the way:
Could some one explain to me, what a black bird of the family of corvidae and place for social drinking have to do with a piece of iron used to pry things apart?

Confused


DerDa

[ATAG_Highseas]

Well, if you need a crowbar for soft English pastry, maybe some of the prejudices about English cooking might not be completely ill-founded.

Haha!

I'm in Düsseldorf right now..... no crumpets to be seen !

And the marmalade?!. Oh dear lord ...!!!

It's just random what non-Seville flavour you get!!!






Cheers fellas!

[DerDa]

I'm in Düsseldorf right now..... no crumpets to be seen !

!

Ask for Zuckerschnecken.

[ATAG_Highseas]

Ask for Zuckerschnecken.

Sugar snails?

Really???

[Artist]

Really.

[DerDa]

Certainly, why not
http://www.chefkoch.de/rezepte/81041...schnecken.html

or Sahneschnittchen.
just ask your wif ... no, better don't.

And we should stop this, or we will get banned

[ATAG_Highseas]

Bwahh hahahahhahahaha!!!!