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Thread: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

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    Explaining and understanding the ATAG main server statistics

    Following some recent discussions about the statistics that there have been on TeamSpeak3\In-game chat I've made some tests in the last days trying to find if it was possible to determine precisely if a pilot is leaving the aircraft as per normal ( bailing out ) or if he is using the so hated ( by some players ) " ALT+F2 " combination of keys to leave the plane all of a sudden ( trying to avoid to suffer pilot\crew kills ) and how the air and land abandons system works precisely...
    The reply is yes...there is definitively a way to understand all this...the stats system works in this precise way:

    Every time that you bail out " as per normal " ( or that you leave the plane using " ALT+F2 " ) you will get an " Air abandon ".
    Somehow if you leave the plane as it should be done normally ( or rather bailing out and waiting until the parachute is safely on the ground or until your pilot reaches the ground if he do not deploys the parachute and then pressing the " ESC " key to escape to the Briefing menu and then clicking on the flag replying " Yes " to the question " Are you sure you want to leave this plane? " ) you will get also a " Land abandon " on the ATAG Statistics page.

    To understand how many times a pilot have used the " ALT + F2 " you simply need to make the difference between the " Air abandons " and the " Land abandons " ( and the number of landings if any ).

    For example:

    I have flown actually 11 sorties on the ATAG main server at the moment I'm writing this.
    I have 9 " Air abandons ", 8 " Land abandons " and 2 landings.
    So if you make 9 ( Air abandons or rather the times I've bailed out in total) minus 8 ( Land abandons or rather all the times that I've bailed and I've waited until my pilot have touched the ground ) you will get the number 1 ( 9-8 = 1 ).
    The number 1 indicates, in this case, the number of times I have left the plane using the " ALT+F2 " combination of keys.

    So to resume I've bailed 8 times waiting that my pilots reaches the ground, 1 time I've used " ALT+F2 " to leave the plane and 2 times I've successfully landed.
    Making the addition 8 ( Land abandons ) + 1 ( Air abandon using " ALT+F2 " ) + 2 ( Successful landings ) the total given is the same as the total number of sorties flown ( 11 ).

    Total sorties flown: 11
    8+1+2 = 11

    In this way it's possible to know precisely and without any possible doubt how many times a pilot have used the so hated " ALT+F2 " combination of keys to leave the plane and the times that instead the pilots has left the plane in a " realistic " way ( or better said in a " virtual realistic way for the ones interested to act in this way ).


    Be clear, at least in my opinion, everyone is fully and completely free to leave the plane in the way he likes more ( everyone is free to get his personal fun in his personal way ) but in the last days I've heard really a lot of wrong and misleading comments ( about this matter ) by the ones affirming that they like to play the game acting in a " Realistic way " as much as possible.

    I hope this should clarify the situation once and for all! ( avoiding so to say stupid things about the way in which " Air and Land abandons " works or by making doubtful and pretentious assumptions against the behaviour of a\some pilot\s! ).

    This should also stop some " IL2 Cliffs of Dover Urban Legends " I've heard, recently, about how the statistics works on the ATAG main server!



    My best regards to all the community members,



    Salute!!!



    Personal note

    This topic is NOT pointed against no one in particular!
    My intention was ONLY to clarify, for the ones that could have still doubts about it, how the statistics system works about this particular matter and to possibly be of help for the ATAG community members\pilots to understand more easily how the statistics system works!


    Hals und Beinbruch! ( Good luck! )





    Maj Robert Mölders,
    Gruppenkommandant,
    Stab I./JG 51
    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Mar-21-2017 at 08:23. Reason: Changed the topic title to better match the arguments treated in this discussion
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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Thanks for the explanation Molders. I don't pay much attention to stats myself (too depressing).


    But i do, generally speaking, wait until i, or if I've been PK'd, wait until my plane hits the ground before i exit.
    But i do it as a punishment to myself for having allowed myself to be shot down.
    Kind of a way to tell myself to smarten up.
    I don't suggest that anyone bother doing it, because it doesn't work. I still haven't got smarter......

    Once i was PK'd and waited and waited for the bloody (my blood) plane to crash and it took ages. Checked the video to find that it just kept doing these lazy loops....
    It's what i now call a two drink landing... cuz that's how many i had while waiting.... AKA "every cloud has a silver lining".
    "If you want to fly, give up everything that weighs you down"......

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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    I have a question.
    If I bale out then my pilot open the chute but I don't want to wait until he float on the ground and I get another plane... The stats give me no land abandon right?
    So I could not use the alt+f2 but still have same statistic as I used it.
    So a pilot could have a different Air/land abandon ratio even if he don't use alt+f2?

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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Another observation

    If u are in the 110 and use the gunner position at any stage during the mission then if the server ends and u are still flying you will get an air abandon

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    Re: Explaining and understanding the ATAG main server statistics

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    I have a question.
    If I bale out then my pilot open the chute but I don't want to wait until he float on the ground and I get another plane... The stats give me no land abandon right?
    So I could not use the alt+f2 but still have same statistic as I used it.
    So a pilot could have a different Air/land abandon ratio even if he don't use alt+f2?
    No, If you will use the " ALT+F2 " while you are still in the parachute you will get an " Air abandon " ONLY ( because you leave the pilot position before you landed ) exactly the same as if leaving the aircraft, using ALT+F2 midair.
    The " Land abandon " will be given to you by the stats ONLY if you will stay in the parachute until it touches the ground safely ( or being killed due to the parachute failed to open ) or if you land safely your plane at a friendly homebase.
    In addition to get the " Land abandon " correctly you have, before selecting a new plane, following first the " flag procedure " ( see quote below )

    ( or rather bailing out and waiting until the parachute is safely on the ground or until your pilot reaches the ground if he do not deploys the parachute and then pressing the " ESC " key to escape to the Briefing menu and then clicking on the flag replying " Yes " to the question " Are you sure you want to leave this plane? " )
    Every time that you leave the plane ( both in the " realistic " way or using ALT+F2 or hitting ALT+F2 while your pilot have not yet reached the ground ) will give you the " Air abandon ".
    Here the ATAG stats page, to give you the idea, will intend the " Air abandon " as if you have left the plane anyway ( it doesn't matter in which way )

    The " Land abandon ", instead, is provided\assigned by the ATAG stats page ONLY if you leave correctly the aircraft\parachute ( so staying in the parachute until it do touch the ground safely ( or not ) and not using the ALT+F2 anytime and then using the " flag procedure " to exit the plane )

    The difference between the " Air abandons " and the " Land abandons " ( taking in mind also the total number of sorties flown and the total number of successful landings ) will provide you the number of times you have used ALT+F2 to leave the plane or your parachute while you are still in the air.

    To resume and said in brief everything made without following the correct procedure ( or if you prefer the " realistic " procedure ) will provide you ONLY an " Air abandon " ( and so of consequence no " Land abandons " will be given to you on the ATAG stats page ).
    If you " want " the " Land abandon " displayed on your pilot detailed statistics you have to NEVER use ALT+F2 anytime and in any occasion.

    If you have other questions or doubts, Barone, about it fell free to ask anytime ( or contact me on Ts so we can discuss it in Italian language )
    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Mar-21-2017 at 08:16.
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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    No it's clear. I asked because I never use alt+f2 to ragequit ( although in recent times the games kicks me out with despown script with no reason) but since I didn't know about this land abandon thing after my chute is opened I usually go to menu using ESC and then go on as usual programming my next sortie.
    So I had same statistics as a person who do alt+f2 every time and never bail out or wait for chute to open.
    Seems that I'll have to wait to reach the ground next time!

    Inviato dal mio Moto G (4) utilizzando Tapatalk
    Last edited by Barone; Mar-03-2017 at 19:13.

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    Re: Explaining and understanding the ATAG main server statistics

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    No it's clear. I asked because I never use alt+f2 to ragequit ( although in recent times the games kicks me out with despown script with no reason) but since I didn't know about this land abandon thing while my chute open I usually go to menu using ESC and then go on as usual programming my next sortie.

    Inviato dal mio Moto G (4) utilizzando Tapatalk
    I'm pleased my explanations was of help for you mate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    So I had same statistics as a person who do alt+f2 every time. And never bail out or wait for chute to open.
    Seems that I'll have to wait to reach the ground next time!
    Unfortunately here there is only one possible reply...yes you are correct!
    For the ones that like to have " Realistic " pilot statistic " ALT+F2 " usage must be totally forgotten under any circumstance.


    Salute!
    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Mar-21-2017 at 08:17.
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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Wow! A very detailed explanation of how the Stats work!


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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Thanks again for this Molders.
    I've never heard of this ALT+ F2 before (or i'd have been using it all the time!)

    Your explanation is very clear, but just to be sure i have it right, if not too much of a bother, would you please go through the 2 examples, i randomly picked, below?
    It would help me know that i have it right.

    Capture 1.PNG

    Thanks a bunch!
    "If you want to fly, give up everything that weighs you down"......

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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Since starting to fly bombers I have Alt F2 on macro, seriously. The gunners will not fire if you don't hit that when you leave the position.

    The guys in this game who abuse this in a fighter are rare. You can see the aircraft go dead when some putz pulls this garbage. I'm a crack shot and fly both sides. I know how rare this exploit is but I do know a few guys on both sides do it.

    If you really want to know who's doing this do what the BR boys did use the in game recording. Then use the tool ATAG provides and watch the "ace" get zero deaths per month. You do this enough people notice and we make fun of you in TS. We know who you are and we laugh at you.

    Also sometimes you get no crash landing credit when the server doesn't register it. Pretty sure you'll get an air abandon when you exit the aircraft.

    The ATAG stat system is not the best in Cliffs. I think SoW had it best. Not ripping on ATAG just to be clear. Pretty sure you guys know I like the joint but just in case.
    Last edited by 7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER; Mar-04-2017 at 11:39.

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    Re: Explaining and understanding the ATAG main server statistics

    At Farley:

    To be able to say something with a good approximation you need to left-click on the pilot name of interest so to expand the detailed stats windows ( where the " Land abandons " value is displayed ) otherwise is not possible to help you commenting the sample image. ( not enough data displayed to express a possible judgment )

    Please note that the " Land Ratio " do NOT refers to the number of successful land abandons but to the ratio about the land kills ( or rather aircraft strafed on the ground and destroyed before they could take-off )

    See image reference below to know where the " Land abandons " value is displayed.

    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Mar-21-2017 at 08:17.
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    Re: Explaining and understanding the ATAG main server statistics

    Quote Originally Posted by 7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER View Post
    If you really want to know who's doing this do what the BR boys did use the in game recording. Then use the tool ATAG provides and watch the "ace" get zero deaths per month. You do this enough people notice and we make fun of you in TS.
    Another good system but a little bit too unhandy, in my opinion ( or you will end with tons of .trk files )
    You can do exactly the same simply interpreting, correctly, the statistics. ( and more quickly in respect to review a track file )


    Quote Originally Posted by 7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER View Post
    Also sometimes you get no crash landing credit when the server doesn't register it. Pretty sure you'll get an air abandon when you exit the aircraft.
    I will also made tests about this to be able to provide solid data.
    My first " impression " is somehow that actually pilots get an air abandon when crash landing due to the fact that they do not follow the correct procedure to leave the plane more than due to a server fault ( but as said actually this is only a personal assumption due to the fact that I have not yet tested it ).
    Please remember that the only correct way that the game consider as " correct " to leave the plane is following the " flag procedure " ( see my previous replies for details about it ).
    Leaving the aircraft using any other systems ( like for example hitting ALT+F2 while still in the parachute, hitting ALT+F2 after have successfully crash-landed, hitting ALT+F2 while still in the plane, etc ) will provide you always only ( an always ) an air abandon.

    The rule is simple and easy: whatever will happen during the sortie if you want detailed and " virtually realistic " pilot stats reported on the ATAG statistics page NEVER exit the sortie without using the " flag procedure ". ( the same applies after have bailed out, so you have to stay in the parachute until the end whatever will be the fate of your pilot )
    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Mar-21-2017 at 08:18.
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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Quote Originally Posted by Stab I./JG 51 - Mölders View Post
    I'm pleased my explanations was of help for you mate!



    Unfortunately here there is only one possible reply...yes you are correct!
    For the ones that like to have " Realistic " pilot statistic " ALT+F2 " usage must be totally forgotten under any circumstance.


    Salute!
    I never used alt+f2 but seems that even if you a normal despawn you get no land abandon if you do that before your chute is still floating to the ground.
    So the only solution to this is ALWAYS wait for your chute to reach the ground and then disconnect.

    I have another curiosity.
    When maps end and server kick you out while you're still flying what do you get?

    ADD: another thing is that I think that also if you have a connection drop or a disconnection due to pc problem you don't get a land abandon.
    So looking at the air/land abandon ratio is not a 100% sure method to know if someone ragequit.
    In the end if you do so you get a penality (air abandon) so you get punished anyway.

    Inviato dal mio Moto G (4) utilizzando Tapatalk
    Last edited by Barone; Mar-04-2017 at 12:52.

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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Reading this thread and previous threads regarding game stats and ATAG stats, it seems pretty clear that the way stats are collected is not 100% reliable.

    Regarding the abandons, last night I downed two Blenheims, I watched them break up on the ground under me but I didn't get awarded a kill for either of them. The previous night I heavily damaged a Spit mid channel and left him alone to ditch, again I didn't get the kill. Yes, it bugs me a little but, I am also curious if those pilots registered abandons on their stats, who knows ?

    I don't think there's any tricks going on, it just seems that the stats system is a little bit hit and miss sometimes.

    And why do they get stuck ???
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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    It pretty usual that you don't get kill sometimes even you kill the pilot. Don't know why maybe because of problems in transferring data from game to stats.

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    Re: Explaining and understanding the ATAG main server statistics

    Attention! Do not mix\confuse the stats present on the ATAG stats page and the ones that you get in-game... they are two distinct things handled in two separate ways!

    The in-game ones are heavily bugged and not reliable at all ( that's why you don't see the Blenny\ditched planes displayed correctly in the in-game air kill count ).
    On the ATAG stats page instead everything that you will shoot down is correctly reported ( especially about enemy AI bombers ).
    Note somehow that if you damage an enemy aircraft but it will be able to land at one of his friendly airfields you will not get the air kill on the ATAG stats page because by the ATAG stats system is considered as if the the aircraft has landed and it is possible to be repaired. ( while instead in the in-game stats when the aircraft de-spawns you will get the air kill )



    At Barone: If the server quits due to a crash or due to a Steam update you should get no air abandons at all. About your other questions I will reply when I can show\report solid data ( after the tests ).
    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Mar-21-2017 at 08:18.
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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Because my view is stuck in the parachute, I sometimes use ALT+F2 while hanging in the parachute to be able to look around, when I want to spectate the stuff happening around me. Sometimes it's really exciting to be able to look around.


    EDIT: Hopefully TF will fix the killed "AI" instead of the playername, when we jump out or press ALT+F2
    Last edited by Tibsun; Mar-04-2017 at 13:51.

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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Thanks for the clarification Molders. I wasn't sure of where the "land" stat was coming from.
    Just curious really, but you have sorted it all out for me.
    Thanks again

    As i mentioned, i don't really look at the stats, but last month i did shoot down 4 planes on my first flight of the month (only 3 of which were friendlies!), and i didn't want to fly again all month because i liked the way my stats looked.
    Honestly don't think i have ever downed 4 plane s in a month prior to that.....

    That's the end of my little tale......
    "If you want to fly, give up everything that weighs you down"......

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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Quote Originally Posted by Stab I./JG 51 - Mölders View Post
    Another good system but a little bit too unhandy, in my opinion ( or you will end with tons of .trk files )
    You can do exactly the same simply interpreting, correctly, the statistics. ( and more quickly in respect to review a track file )




    I will also made tests about this to be able to provide solid data.
    My first " impression " is somehow that actually pilots get an air abandon when crash landing due to the fact that they do not follow the correct procedure to leave the plane more than due to a server fault ( but as said actually this is only a personal assumption due to the fact that I have not yet tested it ).
    Please remember that the only correct way that the game consider as " correct " to leave the plane is following the " flag procedure " ( see my previous replies for details about it ).
    Leaving the aircraft using any other systems ( like for example hitting ALT+F2 while still in the parachute, hitting ALT+F2 after have successfully crash-landed, hitting ALT+F2 while still in the plane, etc ) will provide you always only ( an always ) an air abandon.

    The rule is simple and easy: whatever will happen during the sortie if you want detailed and " virtually realistic " pilot stats reported on the ATAG statistics page NEVER exit the sortie without using the " flag procedure ". ( the same applies after have bailed out, so you have to stay in the parachute until the end whatever will be the fate of your pilot )


    Ahh thanks for that I'll do that then with one exception. If I've ditched and I see a Brazilian wheeling around to murder me out of the cockpit I'm getting out.

    Don't worry BR boys I'm not butt hurt it adds to the excitement!

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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Quote Originally Posted by Prey Stalker View Post
    Reading this thread and previous threads regarding game stats and ATAG stats, it seems pretty clear that the way stats are collected is not 100% reliable.

    Regarding the abandons, last night I downed two Blenheims, I watched them break up on the ground under me but I didn't get awarded a kill for either of them. The previous night I heavily damaged a Spit mid channel and left him alone to ditch, again I didn't get the kill. Yes, it bugs me a little but, I am also curious if those pilots registered abandons on their stats, who knows ?

    I don't think there's any tricks going on, it just seems that the stats system is a little bit hit and miss sometimes.

    And why do they get stuck ???
    For all its faults the stats system is still useful for trend analysis ie its bugs/errors/idiosyncracies are reliable bugs/errors/idiosyncracies. So the stats is useful if want to track how u are going month by month in terms of kills/sortie, deaths per sorties, landings/sorties etc.

    Deaths, sorties and landings seem to be pretty good in the stats and just tracking these is useful for people who like tracking their performance and seeing how they are doing over time.

    And agree with Molders et al - ditching aircraft, even aircraft missing a wing that ditch, will often not give you a kill. Such is life....

    Ezzie

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    Re: Explaining and understanding the ATAG main server statistics

    I've noted that some players still have not a clear idea about where the data are displayed on the ATAG stats page nor in which way the values displayed are calculated.
    Here follow a reference image and a detailed description indicating where you can find them on the ATAG stats page and about how they work\how certain values are calculated ( see and check the text below the reference image for details ).
    The " ? " symbol indicates that I have not yet a clear and solid proofs about how the system precisely works.
    At the end of this post, in addition, you can also find a note that, hopefully, will clarify, once and for all, some well rooted misbelief about the ALT+F2 usage.
    I hope this could help to clarify where the various data are located\displayed.




    MAIN ATAG STATISTICS PAGE COLUMNS DESCRIPTION ( From left to right )

    Name column: Here is displayed the player Steam username ( example: Stab I./JG 51 - Mölders )

    Sorties column: Here are displayed the total number of sorties flown by the player on the main ATAG server ( Axis vs Allies ) ( example: 11 )

    Air Kills column: Here are displayed the total number of air kills scored by the player while flying on the main ATAG server ( Axis vs Allies ) ( example: 9 )

    Air Ratio column: Here are displayed the average number of air kills per sortie scored by the player while flying on the main ATAG server ( Axis vs Allies ).
    The value displayed here is obtained making the following calculation: 9 ( Total air kill ) : 11 ( Total number of sorties flown ) = 0,82 ( Air ratio )

    Land Kills column: Here are displayed the total number of enemy aircraft destroyed on the ground ( obtained strafing or bombing ) by the player while flying on the main ATAG server ( Axis vs Allies ) ( example: 1 )

    Land Ratio column: Here are displayed the average number of enemy aircraft destroyed on the ground ( obtained strafing or bombing ) per sortie scored by the player while flying on the main ATAG server ( Axis vs Allies ).
    The value displayed here is obtained making the following calculation: 1 ( Total land kills ) : 11 ( Total number of sorties flown ) = 0,09 ( Land ratio )

    Air abandons column: Here are displayed the total number of times that you have exited your plane, or that you have bailed out, or that you have left the server while yet being in the air.
    It doesn't matter the procedure that you have followed to exit your plane or leaving the server\game ( that you will use the ALT+F2 combinations of keys, or that you will press two consecutive times the " ESC " key to exit the plane\game, that you will use the " Flag procedure " or whatever system you may think to exit the aircraft\game while yet being in the air ), every time that you will abandon your plane after the take-off ( in the air or mid-air if you prefer said in brief ) it will be reported and displayed under this column.
    ( example: 9 )

    Landings column: Here are displayed the total number of successful landings that you have been able to perform inside a friendly airfield area. ( example: 2 )

    Deaths column: Here are displayed the total number of pilot and crew members kills suffered by the player.
    Note that, speaking of crew members kills suffered by the player while flying multi-crew aircraft, here are reported ONLY the crew members kills suffered by the player while he is manually occupying the crew position of interest ( or directly controlling the crew position if you prefer the term ) or crew members kills that has been suffered while the game is still considering the player as if occupying " physically " the crew position ( example: 4 ).
    As additional help to let you understand better how the system works, about crew members kills suffered by the player displayed in this column, the number 4 in this example refers to 2 pilots killed ( while I was flying a Bf 110 ) and 2 rear gunners kills suffered while I was manually occupying the rear gunner position ( while I was flying a Bf 110 ).

    DETAILED PILOT STATISTICS BOX DESCRIPTION ( You can display\hide it left-clicking with your mouse on your Steam username displayed on the ATAG statistics page )

    SORTIES: Here are displayed the total number of sorties flown by the player on the main ATAG server ( Axis vs Allies ) ( example: 11 )

    LANDINGS: Here are displayed the total number of successful landings that you have been able to perform inside a friendly airfield area. ( example: 2 )

    Air Kills ( AIR section ): Here are displayed the total number of air kills scored by the player while flying on the main ATAG server ( Axis vs Allies ) ( example: 9 )

    Air Kill Ratio ( AIR section ): Here are displayed the average number of air kills per sortie scored by the player while flying on the main ATAG server ( Axis vs Allies ).
    The value displayed here is obtained making the following calculation: 9 ( Total air kill ) : 11 ( Total number of sorties flown ) = 0,82 ( Air ratio )

    Land Kills ( LAND section ): Here are displayed the total number of enemy aircraft destroyed on the ground ( obtained strafing or bombing ) by the player while flying on the main ATAG server ( Axis vs Allies ) ( example: 1 )

    Land Kill Ratio ( LAND section ): Here are displayed the average number of enemy aircraft destroyed on the ground ( obtained strafing or bombing ) per sortie scored by the player while flying on the main ATAG server ( Axis vs Allies ).
    The value displayed here is obtained making the following calculation: 1 ( Total land kills ) : 11 ( Total number of sorties flown ) = 0,09 ( Land ratio )

    Land Details -- Armor: Here are displayed all the enemy tanks controlled by the A.I ( A.I is the acronym of Artificial Intelligence ) that you have been able to destroy.
    To be not confused with the " Tanks " raw. ( see " Land Details -- Tanks " description for a detailed description about it )

    Land Details -- Artillery: Here are displayed all the enemy artillery emplacements controlled by the A.I or by a human player ( A.I is the acronym of Artificial Intelligence ) that you have been able to destroy.

    As reference:

    A.A.A = is the acronym of " Anti Aircraft Artillery " in English language
    Flak = is the acronym of " Fliegerabwehrkanone " in German language

    Land Details -- Ship Units: Here are displayed all the enemy ships controlled by the A.I ( A.I is the acronym of Artificial Intelligence ) that you have been able to sunk.

    Land Details -- Tanks: Here are displayed all the enemy vehicles or tanks manned by a human player that you have been able to destroy.
    To be not confused with the " Armor " raw. ( see " Land Details -- Armor " description above for a detailed description about it )

    Land Details -- Trailer Units: ? ( I have already some assumptions\ideas about how it works but I prefer to have solid proofs available first before reporting )

    Land Details -- Trains: ? ( I have already some assumptions\ideas about how it works but I prefer to have solid proofs available first before reporting )

    Land Details -- Wagons: ? ( I have already some assumptions\ideas about how it works but I prefer to have solid proofs available first before reporting )

    Red Sorties: Here are reported the last consecutive sorties played on the main ATAG server ( Axis vs Allies ) that you have flown while you were flying for the Red side

    Blue Sorties: Here are reported the last consecutive sorties played on the main ATAG server ( Axis vs Allies ) that you have flown while you were flying for the Blue side

    Character ( DEATHS section ): Here are displayed the total number of pilot and crew members kills suffered by the player.
    Note that, speaking of crew members kills suffered by the player while flying multi-crew aircraft, here are reported ONLY the crew members kills suffered by the player while he is manually occupying the crew position of interest ( or directly controlling the crew position if you prefer the term ) or crew members kills that has been suffered while the game is still considering the player as if occupying " physically " the crew position ( example: 4 ).
    As additional help to let you understand better how the system works, about crew members kills suffered by the player displayed in this column, the number 4 in this example refers to 2 pilots killed ( while I was flying a Bf 110 ) and 2 rear gunners kills suffered while I was manually occupying the rear gunner position ( while I was flying a Bf 110 ).

    Air ( ABANDONS section ): Here are displayed the total number of times that you have exited your plane, or that you have bailed out, or that you have left the server while yet being in the air.
    It doesn't matter the procedure that you have followed to exit your plane or leaving the server\game ( that you will use the ALT+F2 combinations of keys, or that you will press two consecutive times the " ESC " key to exit the plane\game, that you will use the " Flag procedure " or whatever system you may think to exit the aircraft\game while yet being in the air ), every time that you will abandon your plane after the take-off ( in the air or mid-air if you prefer said in brief ) it will be reported and displayed under this column.
    ( example: 9 )

    Land ( ABANDONS section ): Here are displayed the total number of times that you have exited your plane, or that you have bailed out, or that you have left the server while being in the air or on the ground following the correct standard procedure ( or rather the " Flag procedure ", see my previous replies for details about it ).
    As said previously any other method of exiting the plane\parachute\the game\the parachute mid-air\etc you may imagine that is NOT the correct standard procedure ( or rather the " Flag procedure " ) will NOT provide you a " Land abandon " anytime ( example: 8 )
    Said in brief EVERY time that you will use the ALT+F2 combination of key, or that you will press two consecutive times the " ESC " key to exit the plane\game, or whatever system you may think to exit the aircraft\the parachute\the game\etc you will NOT get a " Land abandon " value beside this raw!!!



    SPECIAL NOTE FOR PLAYERS TRYING TO ACT IN A " POSSIBLE MALICIOUS WAY " AND FOR GENUINE PILOTS WITH WRONG BELIEFS ABOUT THIS ARGUMENT

    It is widely diffused in the IL2 Cliffs of Dover online community the idea\belief ( or better said the " IL2 Cliffs of Dover Urban Legend " ) that using the ALT+F2 combination of keys in certain occasions you will not provide to your opponent his hard-won air kill.
    This assumption\belief\Urban Legend is COMPLETELY WRONG and not true at all!!!
    You can use the ALT+F2 combination of keys to leave your plane\the game 1000 consecutive times ( I mean in the case that your are trying to not provide to your opponent his hard-won air kill ) but this possible " malicious " behaviour will not have any kind of effect if this was your intention...your opponent will somehow get the air kill...so wasted effort man!!!
    The ALT+F2 combination of keys usage, I can assure you 100%, that HAS NOTHING TO DO with the air kills not credited " problem\issue ", now or never!!!
    What written above must be enough for you ( I will not provide any additional details about how the ALT+F2 usage precisely works nor I will not reply to any additional " mischievous " question made about it, be clear!!! ) be only know that the ALT+F2 combination of keys usage will not provide you, in no way and never, the chance to not provide to your opponent his hard-won air kill nor it has something to do with the " problem\issue " about air kills not credited!!!
    The problem about the air kills not credited it's due other precise causes ( that I will not certainly reveal publicly to avoid possible " strange temptations ", let's call them in this way this time ) but one thing that is for sure is that it has nothing to do with the ALT+F2 usage!!!

    Few words to the wise!!!
    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Mar-21-2017 at 08:19.
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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Aaargh someone brought it up already but I'm not sure it was addressed.

    What I do typically is after I bail I hit Alt-F2 because it allows you to look around at the fight. I'm assuming that is a problem since I do it before I hit the ground?

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    Re: Explaining and understanding the ATAG main server statistics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderbread View Post
    Aaargh someone brought it up already but I'm not sure it was addressed.

    What I do typically is after I bail I hit Alt-F2 because it allows you to look around at the fight. I'm assuming that is a problem since I do it before I hit the ground?
    Not a problem ( it depends on what you like to do ).
    The only thing is that you will not get the land abandon if you exit the parachute before you hit the ground.
    As said the " ALT+F2 Affair " it's mainly of interest for the players that care about having statistics " virtually realistic ".

    Fly ( and do ) always the things that you prefer while in game, the best thing is having fun...the stats are simply a nice addition to the game and, fortunately, that we get shoot down or not, we have always the chance to speak about the stats\game the next day in front of a good beer!


    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Mar-21-2017 at 08:19.
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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Very helpful, Molders! Thank you for investigating. Just a couple of clarifying questions:

    1. Is a "sortie" counted any time you spawn in a new aircraft or when you take off? For example, if you RTB with an undamaged aircraft and <rr and take off again, does that count as 2 sorties?
    2. I think Smokejumper made reference to this already, but does crash landing (setting the aircraft down somewhere other than a friendly airfield due to damage / engine cutout) count as a landing, air abandon, or a land abandon? Does it matter whether it is done on friendly or enemy territory?

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    Re: Explaining and understanding the ATAG main server statistics

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkBait View Post
    Very helpful, Molders! Thank you for investigating. Just a couple of clarifying questions:

    1. Is a "sortie" counted any time you spawn in a new aircraft or when you take off? For example, if you RTB with an undamaged aircraft and <rr and take off again, does that count as 2 sorties?
    2. I think Smokejumper made reference to this already, but does crash landing (setting the aircraft down somewhere other than a friendly airfield due to damage / engine cutout) count as a landing, air abandon, or a land abandon? Does it matter whether it is done on friendly or enemy territory?
    REPLY TO QUESTION 1

    Every time that you will spawn in the server ( also if you do not take-off ) it will be counted as a sortie on the ATAG stats page.
    In the case that you <rr and take off again after the initial sortie that you have flown if you will land again after the aircraft refuelling you will get 1 sortie only but in the case that you have successfully landed both of the times ( and de-spawned correctly following the " Flag procedure " ) you will get two land abandons. You will get the second land abandon also if you will crash land or you bail out during the " second " sortie after the aircraft refuelling but in this case you will have to de-spawn always following the " Flag procedure " and, in the case you bailed out, you have to wait until your parachute have reached the ground if you are interested to get the land abandon. ( both that your pilot safely reaches the ground or that he impacts the ground as a falling meteor )

    REPLY TO QUESTION 2

    You have quoted ( and mixed ) in your question a lot of things that instead must be kept separated one from the other.
    Said in brief trying to let you understand better how the system works:

    Landing: You will get it only when you will land ( safely or damaged ) on a friendly airfield area.
    You will not get it in any other case ( crash landings outside friendly airfield areas, bail out, etc )

    Air abandon: You will get it every time that you will leave your plane while midair or that you will bail out independently to the de-spawn procedure that you will follow.
    Let's say that the stats with the words " Air abandons " intend to count every single time you will leave ( or rather every single time you will abandon your aircraft ) your aircraft midair ( it doesn't matter in which way you will abandon it )

    Crash landing: The stats do not count at all the number of times that you have crash landed nor they take into consideration the location where you have crash landed your plane.
    With " land abandons " are counted all the times, said in brief, that you have exited the server ( or the sortie ) following the " Flag procedure " after that you were on the ground ( for example if you have landed, if you have crash landed or if you have bailed out but you have waited until your parachute\pilot have reached the ground )-

    The only ways to get a land abandon are two:

    - or your aircraft is fully on the ground ( safely or damaged ) and then you have followed the " Flag procedure " to de-spawn\start a new sortie

    - or you have bailed out and you have waited until your parachute\pilot have reached the ground ( dead or alive ) and then you have followed the " Flag procedure " to de-spawn\start a new sortie

    Any other system to de-spawn\start a new sortie that is not the one indicated above ( like leaving the aircraft using the ALT+F2 combination of keys, hitting directly the " ESC " key without having followed previously the " Flag procedure ", un-plug the power supply of your pc while in-game, a thunder have hit your house and only your computer is exploded, etc ) will not provide you a land abandon.

    I hope this can be of help for you!


    Salute!
    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Mar-21-2017 at 08:19.
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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Molders - very helpful. Thanks so much!

  31. #27
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    Re: Explaining and understanding the ATAG main server statistics

    Some additional things noted during the last sorties flown:


    A) If you collide mid-air with another plane and your aircraft explodes ( totally destroyed ) in the stats page you will get the following:

    + 1 Sortie counted
    + 1 Air abandon
    No Land abandon given on the stats page
    Character deaths suffered reported as per normal


    B) If the server ends while you are mid-air ( Server ending due to mission time ended ) in the stats page you will get the following:

    + 1 Sortie counted
    + 1 Air abandon
    No Land abandon given on the stats page
    Character deaths suffered reported as per normal ( if any )

    C) If you bail out while you are mid-air and you wait until your parachute reaches the water but you DO NOT get a message about your pilot\crew fate ( and then you follow the " Flag procedure " to exit the plane\parachute ) in the stats page you will get the following ( Note that this seems to apply only when you bail out over water areas but you DO NOT get a message about your pilot\crew fate, on land areas you will get always a land abandon, as per normal ):

    + 1 Sortie counted
    + 1 Air abandon
    No Land abandon given on the stats page
    Character deaths suffered reported as per normal ( if any )
    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Mar-21-2017 at 08:19.
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    Re: Explaining and understanding the ATAG main server statistics

    Are you sure that if server ends while in mid air you get air abandon? In the stats at the moment I have something like 6 sortie 4 landings and 1 air abandon with 1 land abandon.
    4+1=5 so one sortie is missing.
    Recently server ends while I was on air and kick me off. I thought that was the missed sortie.

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    Re: Explaining and understanding the ATAG main server statistics

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Are you sure that if server ends while in mid air you get air abandon? In the stats at the moment I have something like 6 sortie 4 landings and 1 air abandon with 1 land abandon.
    4+1=5 so one sortie is missing.
    Recently server ends while I was on air and kick me off. I thought that was the missed sortie.

    Inviato dal mio Moto G (4) utilizzando Tapatalk
    Mmm...as said above this was only what I've noticed...I have also some " sorties " missing I'm trying to understand too what have possibly caused it...further investigations needed it seems...
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    Re: Explaining the ATAG main server statistics: How air and land abandons works

    Note: yesterday I was rammed just after take off, I bale out and manage to land on ground even if I was low (damn those house were getting bigger and bigger LOL) but on stats it doesn't count me the land abandon.
    Maybe the system sometimes doesn't register all the chute landings?

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