Tab - 7 - 1

[MrSteven]

How do we really feel about Tab - 7 - 1?

I get that it somewhat simulates having radar to get an idea of where enemies are but for me it's one hell of an immersion killer.

Other than altitude, it's just way too precise. Once already engaged you can essentially just fly around Tab71'ing. If I'm extending away on the deck I can focus on my instruments and make sure I'm perfectly trimmed and temps are good without even looking back to see if he followed me or broke off.

I don't think it should be completely scrapped or anything, but what about like, only being able to use it once every 60 seconds or something? Who knows... discuss men.

[BOO]

Well there are better mechanics for radar (like the Tab 4-1 stuff seen elsewhere for instance) but Axis V Allies is what it is. And its very very good at being what it is too!

Personally - yes to more immersive Radar but probably not on the ATAG No1 server now that its game mechanic is so well established.

[Baffin]

How do we really feel about Tab - 7 - 1?

I get that it somewhat simulates having radar to get an idea of where enemies are but for me it's one hell of an immersion killer.

Other than altitude, it's just way too precise. Once already engaged you can essentially just fly around Tab71'ing. If I'm extending away on the deck I can focus on my instruments and make sure I'm perfectly trimmed and temps are good without even looking back to see if he followed me or broke off.

I don't think it should be completely scrapped or anything, but what about like, only being able to use it once every 60 seconds or something? Who knows... discuss men.

Many of us disable or simply ignore features like Tab-7-1 in the interests of realism when we are so inclined. If you don't like it, don't use it.

Less experienced gamers are at a distinct disadvantage without it. Remember, our players do not all participate at the same level or with the same goals. Some are gamers, some are semi-simulator pilots while others are hard-core full realism sim junkies. If CLoD was really FULL realism, few participants could play it at all, especially in the learning phase.

[CharlesLV]

Don't look at your instruments and trims too much if there are '110s about!

[DerDa]

I understand that there are differing opinions about TAB-7-1. Some in FG28 like it, some don't.
It definitely changed the way you fly.
I would still think that it should be kept, for the following reasons:

First, it gives Bombers a (desperately needed) little advantage, because they don't show up.
Second, if you read pilot accounts of BoB, British fighter pilots often were guided very exactly to where the Germans were. 'Searching for single enemies' was obviously not something that happened too often.
Third, as Charles LV said: there are still the 110s that do not show up and make it mandatory to check six, otherwise Ezzie will paint still another stroke on his tail fin.
Fourth, you can avoid it by flying very low (just like real radar).

Just yesterday Artist, Maru and me could barely avoid being jumped by Ezzie and Kennedyoz, I believe, but only because of constanly rotating heads. Somehow I survived Ezzies rear gunner and found myself out of ammo and with 12 gallons of fuel left over the fields of 'la douce France'. I tried to set my compass, while hugging the landscape, to find back to the coast. Then press 7-1 and SHOCK enemy fighter 2 miles distant. I look up and there he is flying comepletely unaware just a couple of 100 ft above me. Cursing that there is not a single bullet left in my MGs and quietly sneaking away into the other directon. Man, that was intense! (My adrenaline was still high from the previous map, when I just landed in Wilmington to see Paranoids' Ju 88 with blazing guns and dropping bombs roaring towards me on tree top level). Don't we have just a wonderful game here?

S!

DerDa

[ATAG_Ezzie]

I understand that there are differing opinions about TAB-7-1. Some in FG28 like it, some don't.


Just yesterday Artist, Maru and me could barely avoid being jumped by Ezzie and Kennedyoz, I believe, but only because of constanly rotating heads. Somehow I survived Ezzies rear gunner and found myself out of ammo and with 12 gallons of fuel left over the fields of 'la douce France'. I tried to set my compass, while hugging the landscape, to find back to the coast. Then press 7-1 and SHOCK enemy fighter 2 miles distant. I look up and there he is flying comepletely unaware just a couple of 100 ft above me. Cursing that there is not a single bullet left in my MGs and quietly sneaking away into the other directon. Man, that was intense! (My adrenaline was still high from the previous map, when I just landed in Wilmington to see Paranoids' Ju 88 with blazing guns and dropping bombs roaring towards me on tree top level). Don't we have just a wonderful game here?

S!

DerDa

That was a good fight DerDa (and Artist). S to you both.

I think tab 7-1 is a good thing especially when numbers are low and or new players dont know where the action is. And like Baffin says its optional so doesnt have to be used if it kills immersion.

Ezzie

[Maru]

I like the tab 7-1, we are to small and the map is to big.. how can you find enemies if you dont have it?

Heavy fighters and bombers have a great advantage, stukas sometimes not. but Im ok with that.

I think it could be a good idea to add a "spam protection" like you can only tab 7-1 each 5 seconds or smth like that.

[Brennus54]

Lol, just read the briefing Maru and try to accomplish the objectives, you will find some ennemies trust me

You don't need these tab 7 1 , i agree about the fact this is an immersion killer.

The ATAG server is not a dogfight server, but of course you are free to fly the way you want.

Sometimes, some pilots are angry about me because i suprise them with the 110.... is this a joke guys ? Just open your eyes, like in the past. These guys just spam the tab 7 1 all the time, they don't really look around !

ps : several topics does already exist about this subject if i'm right

[Maru]

Who actually reads the brief? hahaha, im not a bomber pilot btw, I fly spits so my targets are not really static.


Someday I will read the brief completly I promise!

[PreyStalker]

Very good topic MrSteven,

I also think it's a little too precise and unreastic. If I lose visual during a dogfight, Tab 7 1 very often picks up my enemy again for me and I have a good sense of direction so I can quickly look in that area and spot them. I use it a hell of a lot, too much even, but it's there and very useful.

The problem is it leads me right to the front door of the enemy, when all I really need to know is what street they live on and I'll find them myself from there.

I think that once contacts are within 10km of each other, tab 7 1 should stop there and not give more precise range and direction. There should be some element of visually scanning the skies, knowing the enemy is somewhere near you. I'm assuming that the majority of people are able to spot contacts within 10k.

Another idea is to introduce a time lag to the information from Tab 7 1. If the information you receive is 2 minutes old, it will still get you to roughly the right area but force you to visually scan the entire danger area.

Tab 7 1 is essential for the multiplayer experience but it's just a little bit too good at it's job in my opinion. Point me in the right direction but don't hold my hand in a fight !

[Brennus54]

If you read the brief (most of the permanent players do it, trust me), you will know what you have to protect then you will see ennemies trying to accomplish these obejctives, and you will even be able to destroy some light ground targets objectives with your spit

[DerDa]

If you read the brief (most of the permanent players do it, trust me), you will know what you have to protect then you will see ennemies trying to accomplish these obejctives, and you will even be able to destroy some light ground targets objectives with your spit

I don't know about 'most' players and I wouldn't know how to know.
What you say is certainly true when the server is full. But then finding enemies is definitely a minor problem
But when you fly at times when there are very few people on the server, this is certainly wrong. You could spend hours and hours circling the ships east of Manston, while the 'blues' take out Gravesend and Wilmington at leisure.

[Maru]

Personal experience


But your fault Derda!!! I wasnt for patrolling Wilmington!!!!

artist secretly supports me

[DRock]

A good aspect of tab 7-1 is that it doesn't give you the enemy's altitude. So it merely points you in the right direction and distance. This is perfect, since it keeps the fights going and yet still leaves room for you to think for yourself. The lack of bomber detection is good too. Besides, your escorts can still give your position away if you're not careful.

Without Tab 7-1 the way it is, conflict will be reduced and with it, the fun.


~S~

[SharkBait]

This is a very good thread!

I think some radar input is great and also realistic, and an alternative based on what I've read from others who posted before me seems to already exist in game.

You will notice that you occasionally receive messages from ground control even when you didn't Tab 7 1 - and the message is slightly different than the typical Tab 7 1. Rather than giving you a heading and distance from your location, it gives you the coordinates of the enemy (e.g., AZ17), the approximate heading your enemy is on, his approximate altitude, and his aircraft type. This actually forces you to figure out where you are and where the enemy might be heading towards before you can decide how to adjust your heading. It also doesn't give you how close you are to the contact so you have to be on the lookout (I believe each square is 10km x 10km).

Currently, this message is only provided once in a long while. So perhaps having it appear more frequently (every 30 seconds / minute / two minutes - take your pick) may be a good replacement for Tab 7 1. Yes, it might seem to give you a bit more information than Tab 7 1 (e.g., altitude, heading of the enemy) but the reduced frequency of communication might mitigate that (you'll have to guess where the enemy might be a minute from when you received the message... then again he might have changed course!!). Perhaps we should also have the radio send you information about the targets closest to you (so that you don't get call-outs for Dieppe when you're over Calais). Just a thought!

[ATAG_kiwiflieger]

I like Sharkbait's idea with more frequent 'ground control' messages. Another idea I had is maybe that if you use Tab 7 1 more often, it makes you more likely to be found by enemy ground control radar... you win some, you lose some?

[CCR]

No opinions.
I'm a newb but old school. Mouth shut & learn until not a newb....

Just like to confirm current tab71 info. (?) meant as a question, not fact
1-range in linear.
2-below 500 feet sea level, is undetected, no matter what the situation.
3-detects nearest a/c always.
4- actual range beyond 15 miles is not listed. **
5-direction shown is not relevant to my heading, but a general compass direction from me.
6-will lose tab71 for remainder of map cycle once a certain K, k/L, etc. is met.

Q.
What is the maximum detect range, does it extend beyond 15?
If so, how far?
ie: could an a/c be out 30 miles or more, be detected and show on screen as 180 at 15km. (meant 15 miles... )


PS- been messing w/ enemy ackack to test it's accuracy ....note to self: stop that!

[ATAG_Highseas]

No opinions.
I'm a newb but old school. Mouth shut & learn until not a newb....

Just like to confirm current tab71 info.
1-range in linear.
2-below 500 feet sea level, is undetected, no matter what the situation.
3-detects nearest a/c always.
4- actual range beyond 15 miles is not listed. **
5-direction shown is not relevant to my heading, but a general compass direction from me.
6-will lose tab71 for remainder of map cycle once a certain K, k/L, etc. is met.

Q.
What is the maximum detect range, does it extend beyond 15?
If so, how far?
ie: could an a/c be out 30 miles or more, be detected and show on screen as 180 at 15km.


PS- been messing w/ enemy ackack to test it's accuracy ....note to self: stop that!

That's a good question.

I understood that 15km meants 15 +

but as far as how far that goes up to i have no idea.

Mostly I only get "15km" when very few others are on. And havent thought about it much beyond that. Be interested to know thoiugh !

[DerDa]

I'm not really sure, and never really understood this (like so many other things), but I think it also depends on how populated the server is.

Since always the nearest hostile is detected: if there are only very few, then 15 miles might mean that the enemy aircraft is on the other side of the map. The more people are around, the higher is the probability that 15 miles really are 15 miles.

[ATAG_Ribbs]

I've seen it report 15/20/25/30...Also it's reporting contacts in a compass direction..So if your flying on a 210 heading and it reports bandits at 250 4km away they are going to be at your 1-2 o'clock. Fairly close and visible. It doesn't tell you Altitude..So they could be above you or below you.

[ATAG_Dave]

Q.
What is the maximum detect range, does it extend beyond 15?
If so, how far?
ie: could an a/c be out 30 miles or more, be detected and show on screen as 180 at 15km. (meant 15 miles... )
!

In short - max is 30km = a little bit over 15 miles

[Artist]

One thing, I remember:
- The distance reported is line of sight(?): 2 miles could mean that the enemy is exactly 10,560 vertical feet above you.

[ATAG_Ezzie]

No opinions.
I'm a newb but old school. Mouth shut & learn until not a newb....

Just like to confirm current tab71 info. (?) meant as a question, not fact
1-range in linear.
2-below 500 feet sea level, is undetected, no matter what the situation.
3-detects nearest a/c always.
4- actual range beyond 15 miles is not listed. **
5-direction shown is not relevant to my heading, but a general compass direction from me.
6-will lose tab71 for remainder of map cycle once a certain K, k/L, etc. is met.

Q.
What is the maximum detect range, does it extend beyond 15?
If so, how far?
ie: could an a/c be out 30 miles or more, be detected and show on screen as 180 at 15km. (meant 15 miles... )


PS- been messing w/ enemy ackack to test it's accuracy ....note to self: stop that!

If the number of players is less than 20 then tab 7-1 will report on enemy contacts out 90 km ( from memory) but only show 30 until such time as thet close within 30. There's a formula that was posted maybe 2 years ago when tab 7-1 was modified in response to player input that shows how this calculated. Ill have a look in a sec to see if i can find it.

It used to be that once your score was above 1 you lost tab 7-1 but this was removed due to feedback.

Edit - think it might be discussed in this thread. http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...hlight=Formula

Ezzie