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Thread: TF-51D Stutter

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    TF-51D Stutter

    Hi All!

    I'm just dipping my toes in DCS mainly because I've always wanted a sim that has the P-51D Mustang. I recently downloaded it and fired it up. Unfortunately, I'm getting some strange stuttering when I'm flying the TF-51D. The game is smooth for 4 seconds and then it skips a few frames, then does the same thing again after about 3-4 seconds. I think this may be a problem with the TF-51D, because when I go in the Su-25, this problem isn't there. Tried playing around with the graphics settings for a while but no change. I thought my PC would be good enough to run this smoothly (specs below). Does anyone know how to fix this? I'm considering buying the P-51D Mustang but I probably won't if I can't fix this issue.

    Cheers!


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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Also, another easier question...

    Do I need to buy a terrain to fly in DCS 2.0? Or can I just buy a plane (e.g., P-51D Mustang) and a campaign (e.g., P-51D High Stakes Campaign) to fly? $50+ just to try it out sounds insane...

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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkBait View Post
    Also, another easier question...

    Do I need to buy a terrain to fly in DCS 2.0? Or can I just buy a plane (e.g., P-51D Mustang) and a campaign (e.g., P-51D High Stakes Campaign) to fly? $50+ just to try it out sounds insane...
    The Caucasus terrain is free. The campaigns are optional, but apparently they are fun singleplayer experiences. If you buy a campaign for the Nevada map then you of course need to also buy the Nevada map. It is quite expensive sadly. However I do believe that there are some campaigns for the Caucasus map.


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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Flare View Post
    The Caucasus terrain is free. The campaigns are optional, but apparently they are fun singleplayer experiences. If you buy a campaign for the Nevada map then you of course need to also buy the Nevada map. It is quite expensive sadly. However I do believe that there are some campaigns for the Caucasus map.
    Thanks Flare! Are you sure the Caucasus map is free in 2.0 as well? If so, where do I download it?

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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkBait View Post
    Thanks Flare! Are you sure the Caucasus map is free in 2.0 as well? If so, where do I download it?

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    The Caucasus map is only in 1.5, just download 1.5 instead. The only difference between the two builds is the map, so if you just download 1.5 you'll be fine, most multiplayer is also on 1.5.


    "The Youngest ATAG Member" (16)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    There was a young pilot named Flare,
    Who could never pass on a dare.
    In his Blennie he'd attack,
    With 6 109's at his back.....
    To the enemy's everlasting despair!


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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Perfect - thanks! For some reason the P-51D Mustang product description on the ED website said it's not steam compatible and had a link to DCS 2.0 so I assumed it won't work on 1.5... and I thought sorting out TF mods was tough!

    I actually pulled the trigger on buying the P-51D Mustang because it was on sale. I read on the web that the TF-51D had stutter issues, especially in the training scenarios. Hopefully the P-51D won't stutter... Su-25 (which one would assume is a more complex plane) does not stutter for me so it is truly a mystery.

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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    I just re-downloaded DCS World 1.5 from Steam... and realized that I can't use my P-51D Mustang with it, likely because it's the Steam version whereas I bought the P-51D mod from the ED website. I didn't know that you can also download DCS World 1.5 from the ED website itself - hopefully I can fly my P-51D in that version?

    All of this has been very confusing... I'm tempted to make a quick start-up guide for future DCS players if I'm able to figure this out... Unless it's just me that's dense and everyone else finds this simple.
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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    You will not have a problem - there is no benefit to "Steaming" DCS that I can see.

    All the modules and sales are for the non steam version. Yes it is confusing.

    I'm a newby to DCS too - had the Huey and Nevada but never really done much with the chopper and gave up on Nevada when I found out Elvis wasn't in residence (paying £50 for what amounts to a map that is 99% brown and featureless I did kinda expect Vegas to be..well..Vegas..not the lifeless, closed on a Sunday version presented)

    I bought the P51D this weekend along with the 109 and Spitfire.

    The 109 and Spit's key-binding have a lot more On/Off options which are great if you have a throttle with toggle switches that are set up to be on/off or 3 way. The Warthog isn't by default but a DCS forum member called gizzy has made a very easy to install template for TARGET that sets this up really well so your stuff is on/off capable for all aircraft.

    The P51D has more orientation towards rotary switches and push/push. There are posts about editing the lua files but it all seems out of date now. Sure the is probably still a way but...hey...me man...eat meat.

    I played about in 1.5 with the P51D last night - no stutter however there is no prop really visible either once its running! I used to think the cockpit looked numb but whether they have improved this or its my GPU or my ageing eyes, they all look nice (if a little plastic)

    In 2.0 (Nevada), the 109 Prop freezes whilst ticking over but is fine otherwise. 2.0 is (as it seems everything is in DCS) a beta so probably a fix for the future. The 109 is truly wonderful and feels much more "solid" than the earlier 109 versions in CLoD or BOS. Not better, just, I dunno, more robust.

    And the spit? - its an early release I get that but if it really did fly like it does I'm surprised we even had an RAF fighter force by 1943. Its a proper Deva (although there a videos out there that are perhaps from earlier patches that make it look way harder to Take off and land than it is)! Its still Good but I think there are many things yet to be ironed out by the devs (the awful FOV set up for a start).

    Ah - "How To" videos - check versions and dates - what worked in one version may not in a later version and it can leave you feeling dazed and confused wondering where you are going wrong. Often if you look there may be an updated video to be found.

    Also I presume you have Chuck Owls brilliant guides?

    Finally - enjoy the shooting - you'll think you're an ace - The DM in DCS is not the best ( unless you are the one shooting then its awesum ) at present so things do tend to come apart very easily (like even with just a stern look)

    I've never been a DCS fan up until this weekend and I still think other sims do certain stuff better at the moment.

    HOWEVER- whilst ive not had much flying time because of eye strain this easter weekend I am kinda getting it now. I'm glad its there and, like BOS, its something I will now support more.

    Regards

    BOO
    My Rig: Samsung 40" TV plus 7" Cheapo sub monitor, Asus Z170 Pro Gaming Mobo, I5 6600K @ 4.4Ghz on a Coolermaster 212 Evo, EVGA 1060 SC, 16B Vengeance DDR4 RAM @3000Mhz, Couple of meh SSDs, Corsair 550W CX PSU, MFG Crosswinds, TM WH Throttle, MS Sidewinder 2, EDtracker pro.


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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Personally I find that the DCS planes seem to take a whole lot more bullets before they go down, at least in Singleplayer. In multiplayer they go down at about the rate you'd expect, but I've hit a 190 with 50+ .50 cal bullets and it still didn't go down!


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    There was a young pilot named Flare,
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    In his Blennie he'd attack,
    With 6 109's at his back.....
    To the enemy's everlasting despair!


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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Thank you for the discussion guys! I've had a chance to try out the P-51D Mustang just now, but am experiencing the same stuttering again... I decided to put it on video to show it to you guys. I will post the same issue on the ED forums and see what I get...



    Experiencing stuttering (sharp FPS drop every second or so) in DCS 1.5.6. The video is of the P-51D Mustang module, but stutter also exists for the other 2 free modules (Su-25 and TF-51D). This is the Instant Action/Take Off Batumi, though there is stuttering in other missions as well.

    Have tried low, medium, and high graphics settings. Have tried turning in-game V-Sync on and off, as well as NVIDIA control panel V-Sync options (On, Off, Adaptive, Adaptive (Half), Fast). All with same results.

    System Specs:
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    GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 G1 Gaming 6GB
    RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3 4GB x 2
    HD: PNY 240GB SSD
    OS: Windows 10 Pro
    Resolution: 1920x1080
    Monitor: Asus VX238H 23 inch
    Last edited by SharkBait; Apr-19-2017 at 00:20.
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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkBait View Post
    Thank you for the discussion guys! I've had a chance to try out the P-51D Mustang just now, but am experiencing the same stuttering again... I decided to put it on video to show it to you guys. I will post the same issue on the ED forums and see what I get...



    Experiencing stuttering (sharp FPS drop every second or so) in DCS 1.5.6. The video is of the P-51D Mustang module, but stutter also exists for the other 2 free modules (Su-25 and TF-51D). This is the Instant Action/Take Off Batumi, though there is stuttering in other missions as well.

    Have tried low, medium, and high graphics settings. Have tried turning in-game V-Sync on and off, as well as NVIDIA control panel V-Sync options (On, Off, Adaptive, Adaptive (Half), Fast). All with same results.

    System Specs:
    CPU: Intel i5-4690k 3.5 GHz Quad-core
    GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 G1 Gaming 6GB
    RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3 4GB x 2
    HD: PNY 240GB SSD
    OS: Windows 10 Pro
    Do you have the windows power settings on windows 10 and your NVidia control panel set to high/max performance? I know on a friends pc I was having bad stutter problems (not in dcs though) and it was solved for whatever stinking reason by setting the win10 power plan to high performance.

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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixCNE View Post
    Do you have the windows power settings on windows 10 and your NVidia control panel set to high/max performance? I know on a friends pc I was having bad stutter problems (not in dcs though) and it was solved for whatever stinking reason by setting the win10 power plan to high performance.
    PhoenixCNE, thank you for the response! My Windows 10 power plan is indeed set to high performance, so that is unfortunately not the issue ):

    It is strange... I understand that DCS may be more demanding than CloD and BoS, but both games run fine for me. I've also seen others who have machines that are of lower specs than mine who run it fine as well...
    System Specs: CPU: Intel i5-4690k 3.5 GHz Quad-core / GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 G1 Gaming 6GB / RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3 4GB x 2 / HD: PNY 240GB SSD / OS: Windows 10 Pro

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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Not sure about the stuttering but I can see that the control stick in the plane is fluttering all over the place - that's a sign that you have it mapped to 2 or more controls and is usually caused by DCS auto-assigning controls when setting up the module for you. I think they thought it would be a helpful feature but it's actually a pain in the ass.

    If you go into your control settings for the TF-51D sim version delete everything in the joystick and rudder pedal column (if you have pedals). The quick way to do this is to select the category and then hit the clear category button. Then add each one you want back in manually. I do this first thing with every module I buy. This should remove any control conflicts and the stick won't be fluttering around.

    You shouldn't really be having any issues with your PC. What's your settings for clutter, trees visibility and pre-load radius? I have clutter and trees set about midway and pre-load set to the max (150000). Also for anisotropic filtering and terrain objects shadows? Do you have the disable aero interface option ticked - if you don't then tick it as that can help I believe.

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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul Ole Ron View Post
    Not sure about the stuttering but I can see that the control stick in the plane is fluttering all over the place - that's a sign that you have it mapped to 2 or more controls and is usually caused by DCS auto-assigning controls when setting up the module for you. I think they thought it would be a helpful feature but it's actually a pain in the ass.

    If you go into your control settings for the TF-51D sim version delete everything in the joystick and rudder pedal column (if you have pedals). The quick way to do this is to select the category and then hit the clear category button. Then add each one you want back in manually. I do this first thing with every module I buy. This should remove any control conflicts and the stick won't be fluttering around.

    You shouldn't really be having any issues with your PC. What's your settings for clutter, trees visibility and pre-load radius? I have clutter and trees set about midway and pre-load set to the max (150000). Also for anisotropic filtering and terrain objects shadows? Do you have the disable aero interface option ticked - if you don't then tick it as that can help I believe.

    Thanks for the response Ron. I will look into the control settings!

    I will post my options screen as soon as I'm able to when I get home. Appreciate your input!
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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Hi SB

    I had a similar thing recently - turned out to be a failed RAM stick (although it never failed stress tests oddly) - I mention this as you originally had no stutter with the Su25 and the settings make no difference either.

    Try taking out a stick at a time just to see. If nothing else it eliminates the RAM (test both individually)

    DCS is apparently CPU heavy. I don't know if 3.5Ghz is ok for it but I run a 1060 with an I5 6600K which ive conservatively clocked to 4.4 ghz using a decent air cooler.
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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Quote Originally Posted by Boosterdog View Post
    Hi SB

    I had a similar thing recently - turned out to be a failed RAM stick (although it never failed stress tests oddly) - I mention this as you originally had no stutter with the Su25 and the settings make no difference either.

    Try taking out a stick at a time just to see. If nothing else it eliminates the RAM (test both individually)

    DCS is apparently CPU heavy. I don't know if 3.5Ghz is ok for it but I run a 1060 with an I5 6600K which ive conservatively clocked to 4.4 ghz using a decent air cooler.

    Thanks Boosterdog - I will give this a go out once I've tried the the non-hardware related tests suggested by others. Just to be clear, I should leave at least one 4GB RAM stick in there each time, right? What sign should I look for to determine that the RAM stick is indeed the issue? If I remember correctly the System window in the control panel did register all 8 GBs of RAM last night.

    Also, I tried the Su-25 again and it is also stuttering unfortunately...

    Curious to know if others who have a CPU running at 3.5 GHz or lower is experiencing something similar. I think an i5 fit into their "Recommended" specs so hopefully it's enough and things will work out once we figure out a fix...

    For others' reference, here are a couple of suggestions I received from the ED forum - I haven't had a chance to try any of these yet but in case others are experiencing similar issues:
    1. OnlyforDCS: Before you try anything else, try putting V-sync to adaptive, and press ALT + ENTER when you enter the game. (To go into true Fullscreen). Then report back if you still have the stutters.
    2. =Pedro=: If you use only one monitor in Nvidia control panel -> manage 3d settings -> Multi display/mixed GPU acceleration set to "single display perfomance mode" And you should get instaFPS boost!

    https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.p...=1#post3115082
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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Thats strange...I'm not having that issue. I'd def look on some DCS forums it has to be caused by your PC

    I got the 109 and P-51 within the last week...only because the Normandy Map that is coming out in the next month or so looks AMAZING.

    I went online last night for the first time and it seems alright. It def seems to take more bullets to take someone down.

    Anyway, I plan on playing more in the next few weeks to get ready for them finally having a WWII map...I'll be down in the DCS channel on the ATAG Teamspeak server so if anyone wants to join that'd be suweeeet.

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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Hi

    Yes one RAM at a time (usually it will need to be put in a specific slot so check you MOBO manual - usually the sticks should go in the A2 and B2 (2nd and 4th from the CPU)

    FIRST - Open up the PC and give it a good blast of air if you can to clean stuff out

    THEN - check the sticks are in the right slots just try reseating the RAM - its unlikely to have come loose but you never know - run the game see if it works


    if no joy start testing

    test one on the A2 slot - if the game stutters, take it out and test the other. No stutters means you found the dodgy RAM (the one which caused the stutter)

    If the stutters are there with both the RAM is probably OK.

    It could still be RAM related and the next bit is hit an miss but for devilment try the sticks in the A1 or B1 slots - It may not run or run with slower memory doing this but its worth a shot just to see if the stutters remain (use low settings in the game) - this will help you check for a fault on the MOBO but its just a rough and ready and not scientific.

    Regards

    BOO
    Last edited by BOO; Apr-19-2017 at 17:39.
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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderbread View Post
    Thats strange...I'm not having that issue. I'd def look on some DCS forums it has to be caused by your PC

    I got the 109 and P-51 within the last week...only because the Normandy Map that is coming out in the next month or so looks AMAZING.

    I went online last night for the first time and it seems alright. It def seems to take more bullets to take someone down.

    Anyway, I plan on playing more in the next few weeks to get ready for them finally having a WWII map...I'll be down in the DCS channel on the ATAG Teamspeak server so if anyone wants to join that'd be suweeeet.
    Thanks for the note Wonderbread. Would you mind sharing your specs by chance?



    Quote Originally Posted by Boosterdog View Post
    Hi

    Yes one RAM at a time (usually it will need to be put in a specific slot so check you MOBO manual - usually the sticks should go in the A2 and B2 (2nd and 4th from the CPU)

    FIRST - Open up the PC and give it a good blast of air if you can to clean stuff out

    THEN - check the sticks are in the right slots just try reseating the RAM - its unlikely to have come loose but you never know - run the game see if it works


    if no joy start testing

    test one on the A2 slot - if the game stutters, take it out and test the other. No stutters means you found the dodgy RAM (the one which caused the stutter)

    If the stutters are there with both the RAM is probably OK.

    It could still be RAM related and the next bit is hit an miss but for devilment try the sticks in the A1 or B1 slots - It may not run or run with slower memory doing this but its worth a shot just to see if the stutters remain (use low settings in the game) - this will help you check for a fault on the MOBO but its just a rough and ready and not scientific.

    Regards

    BOO
    Thanks BOO. This makes sense. I'll give this a shot at some point!
    System Specs: CPU: Intel i5-4690k 3.5 GHz Quad-core / GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 G1 Gaming 6GB / RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3 4GB x 2 / HD: PNY 240GB SSD / OS: Windows 10 Pro

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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul Ole Ron View Post
    Not sure about the stuttering but I can see that the control stick in the plane is fluttering all over the place - that's a sign that you have it mapped to 2 or more controls and is usually caused by DCS auto-assigning controls when setting up the module for you. I think they thought it would be a helpful feature but it's actually a pain in the ass.

    If you go into your control settings for the TF-51D sim version delete everything in the joystick and rudder pedal column (if you have pedals). The quick way to do this is to select the category and then hit the clear category button. Then add each one you want back in manually. I do this first thing with every module I buy. This should remove any control conflicts and the stick won't be fluttering around.

    You shouldn't really be having any issues with your PC. What's your settings for clutter, trees visibility and pre-load radius? I have clutter and trees set about midway and pre-load set to the max (150000). Also for anisotropic filtering and terrain objects shadows? Do you have the disable aero interface option ticked - if you don't then tick it as that can help I believe.
    Ron,

    Thanks for the tips on the control settings - trying what you suggest definitely reduced the jitters on the control surfaces. I also included the current graphics settings I'm using. Pretty much the "low" preset mode other than turning V-Sync off (I'm using Adaptive V-Sync via NVIDIA Control Panel) and full screen and disable Aero checked. I did play with these options (V-Sync, full screen, aero, the sliders, etc.) and nothing is working...

    DCS Settings.jpg
    System Specs: CPU: Intel i5-4690k 3.5 GHz Quad-core / GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 G1 Gaming 6GB / RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3 4GB x 2 / HD: PNY 240GB SSD / OS: Windows 10 Pro

  24. #21
    ATAG Member ATAG_Flare's Avatar
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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Hi SharkBait. I have an Intel i7 3770 at 3.4 GHz and DCS runs fine on my end.

    The rest of my specs:

    GTX 960 2GB

    8GB RAM

    DCS runs off of a regular 1TB HDD.


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    There was a young pilot named Flare,
    Who could never pass on a dare.
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  25. #22
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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    I got 16 gigs RAM
    GTX 960 2 gig Video card
    @Intel i7-6700 @3.40ghz

    I have errrrthing maxed out and it runs good.

    Get it figured out and lets play together. You have the P-51d? I think the P-51 is my favorite. So easy to fly and see around.

  26. #23
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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkBait View Post
    I also included the current graphics settings I'm using
    Try putting the pre load radius all the way to the right. This will result in DCS putting as much data into ram cache as possible so might reduce the workload on your HDD.

  27. #24
    Supporting Member BOO's Avatar
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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Hi SB

    I did some playing last night in 1.5 and 2.0.

    My system is very similar to yours. I5 6600K OC to 4.4, 8GB DDR4 RAM, EVGA 1060SC, Generic SSD.

    Setting the overall graphic settings to Medium and upping the Texture and Ground Texture to HIGH seemed to give me the best overall results - Nice graphics and no stutter.

    Oddly, although id set Adaptive vsync in the NV control panel, also switching on the Vsync in game helped with a lot of small judders (not the stuff you are experiencing though). Aero interface made little difference for me.

    What also made a Preload didn't have a negative or positive effect for me. Id ben shy of using high setting because of only havin 8GB RAM but if it saves the SSD having to work its all good.

    I hope you are able to get sorted soon Mate.

    Regards

    BOO
    My Rig: Samsung 40" TV plus 7" Cheapo sub monitor, Asus Z170 Pro Gaming Mobo, I5 6600K @ 4.4Ghz on a Coolermaster 212 Evo, EVGA 1060 SC, 16B Vengeance DDR4 RAM @3000Mhz, Couple of meh SSDs, Corsair 550W CX PSU, MFG Crosswinds, TM WH Throttle, MS Sidewinder 2, EDtracker pro.


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  28. #25
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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    A few more tips:

    MSAA 4x - is usually enough for good results
    turn off the civilian traffic - causes problems in the latest build
    turn the water to low/mid - no quality diference really, but increase in fps
    turn off depth of field - massive fps hit

    use adaptive vsync in Nvidia panel and hit LAlt + Enter when ingame - last step switches rendering mode to "real" fullscreen

  29. #26
    Supporting Member SharkBait's Avatar
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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Quote Originally Posted by Boosterdog View Post
    Hi SB

    I did some playing last night in 1.5 and 2.0.

    My system is very similar to yours. I5 6600K OC to 4.4, 8GB DDR4 RAM, EVGA 1060SC, Generic SSD.

    Setting the overall graphic settings to Medium and upping the Texture and Ground Texture to HIGH seemed to give me the best overall results - Nice graphics and no stutter.

    Oddly, although id set Adaptive vsync in the NV control panel, also switching on the Vsync in game helped with a lot of small judders (not the stuff you are experiencing though). Aero interface made little difference for me.

    What also made a Preload didn't have a negative or positive effect for me. Id ben shy of using high setting because of only havin 8GB RAM but if it saves the SSD having to work its all good.

    I hope you are able to get sorted soon Mate.

    Regards

    BOO
    Quote Originally Posted by rel4y View Post
    A few more tips:

    MSAA 4x - is usually enough for good results
    turn off the civilian traffic - causes problems in the latest build
    turn the water to low/mid - no quality diference really, but increase in fps
    turn off depth of field - massive fps hit

    use adaptive vsync in Nvidia panel and hit LAlt + Enter when ingame - last step switches rendering mode to "real" fullscreen

    Thanks guys - appreciate the tips. I will try these when I get home. If doing what you suggest fails I'm thinking about submitting a log with the devs. Apparently a couple of other guys on the ED forums are having similar issues as well.
    https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=186281
    System Specs: CPU: Intel i5-4690k 3.5 GHz Quad-core / GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 G1 Gaming 6GB / RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3 4GB x 2 / HD: PNY 240GB SSD / OS: Windows 10 Pro

  30. #27
    Supporting Member SharkBait's Avatar
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    Re: TF-51D Stutter

    Just an update... no avail... I have tried everyone's suggestions (in this thread and also in the ED forums I linked above) but nothing has worked yet. I have yet to try testing the RAM but I will do that tomorrow. In the meantime, I intend to send in a report to ED, though I'm not sure if they're very responsive.
    System Specs: CPU: Intel i5-4690k 3.5 GHz Quad-core / GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 G1 Gaming 6GB / RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3 4GB x 2 / HD: PNY 240GB SSD / OS: Windows 10 Pro

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