Low-budget joystick suggestions/recommendations

[ATAG_kiwiflieger]

Hi all,
Over the last couple of months I've noticed my Logitech Extreme 3d Pro has gained a bit of a 'dead-zone' as far as the spring goes - it only requires the tiniest of movements and ones' aim is instantly spoiled, which, as I'm sure many of you know, can mean life or death in a dogfight.
So, I am now wondering if this can be fixed or whether a newer, more precise joystick is required.
Unfortunately my budget is somewhat limited, probably to about $100USD ($150NZD). I've taken a look throughout the forum and over the 'net, and these two options appeal to me:

-Thrustmaster T.16000M
Have heard many good things about this stick on this forum and elsewhere - I'm liking the idea of the Hall effect sensors to increase precision and the extra buttons. Wondering what people's opinions are?

-Cyborg/Mad Catz F.L.Y 5
Goes under a few different brandings but is also apparently pretty good as they go. A friend of mine (who predominantly plays Kerbal Space Program, actually) owns one and has nothing bad to say about it. The throttle can also split in half, which I can imagine must be very useful for twin engined aircraft.

Would love to hear recommendations, opinions, even suggestions as to other sticks that my be available. Thanks in advance,

kiwiflieger

[ATAG_Lolsav]

I have a X52 Saitek. Once its garbish i will go for Thrustmaster T.16000M. The hal sensors make it top of the line of the low budget pilots

[ATAG_Torian]

For around the same price as a T1600 u can also consider the T.Flight HOTAS X For PC/PS3. I use this stick and the T Flight has a proper throttle which I really like. Not sure how the buttons compare but I also use a Saitek triple throttle quadrant as well which gives me a good selection of buttons and additional axis to map prop pitch and trims to.

[farley]

For around the same price as a T1600 u can also consider the T.Flight HOTAS X For PC/PS3. I use this stick and the T Flight has a proper throttle which I really like. Not sure how the buttons compare but I also use a Saitek triple throttle quadrant as well which gives me a good selection of buttons and additional axis to map prop pitch and trims to.

I agree Torian. I used this stick when i first started and it worked very well for me. I also have the Throttle Quadrant and use it for prop pitch, radiator, and flaps in the Spit; it also has six additional buttons that can be mapped as well. Think that would be a nice combination.

[ATAG_Lolsav]

I would ask how precise is that T.Flight HOTAS X, because the HAL sensors make a world of diffrence when it comes to that. Does the T Flight has spikes? Does it jitter or not at all? My Saitek jitters a lot on the rudder, but i dont use the rudder on the stick, because i got some pedals. Nowdays, more than buttons, i would look for a precise controller. And from what ive read the T 16000 is the cheap king of precision on the low budget.

[1lokos]

"Entry level" josytick that worth consideration is T.16000M or if budget allow FCS "HOTAS" (T.16000M+TWCS throttle - this throttle can be bough latter, standalone) or the (virtually nonexistent and almost impossible to buy) VKB Gladiator. In Amazon.com the first cost ~$100.

https://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-.../dp/B01KCHPRXA

Gladiator as always, "sold out".

http://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-sim-gladiator

The first thing to look in joystick is their electronics, not in their "fancy" look or number of buttons and the above is only in "entry level" category that has some differential: contactless sensor in main axis (X,Y).

The main purpose of joystick in CFS/G is put the gunsight piper over the bandit, and for this T.16000M, due their HALL Sensor in main axis (X, Y) will help more than the "dual throttle" (of F.L.Y. X) or "detachable throttle" (of HOTAS 4/X), this two (or Logitech 3D PRO) use low cost/quality potentiometer in main axes, and this Thrustmaster 4/X use the same low cost/quality, low frequency electronic circuit of cheap Chinese gamepads.

If people don't stop to buy "crap" joysticks - the manufacturers will not improve then. Baur, VirPil, VKB is setting a new reference - in mechanics/electronics - for "high end" joysticks, wheres the reference used to be Warthog, with their "fancy" look, good electronics but mediocre mechanics.

[farley]

@Lolsav and @1lokos, these are good questions and points.

I have only owned 2 joysticks, The HOTAS X and now the CH Products Fighterstick.

I only know that they seem to work well for me, but perhaps if i were to use a better stick i might realize that they have failings.

I have never noticed any behaviour from either stick; they both seem smooth and responsive (but having said that, if i can blame my lousy flying on my peripherals then i will be glad to do that!).

I feel that for a very inexpensive stick, $65 Canadian, the Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS X has worked well for me.

The Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS Controller is about another $90 Canadian, which to some, might be more than they can afford.

Certainly if people have enough money to buy better quality, then i would encourage that.

[SharkBait]

Kiwi,

I have the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro also! The deadzone problem hasn't been as bad for me (I've had the stick for ~9 months now), but I've been using a software called Joystick Curves (link below) which allows me to customize the sensitivity of your inputs and thus has put a band-aid on the deficiencies of cheap electronics for the time being. I do experience jitters on my Y and Z (twist) axis though... I'm also thinking of getting a set of rudder pedals in the not too distant future.
xedocproject.com/joystickcurves.html

If I remember correctly, I believe even the great Karaya uses the T.16000M and a set of rudder pedals with incredible results (I think his setup is on his YouTube page somewhere). To me, that proves that the quality of the T.16000M is sufficient and if I want further results, it will come down to the person in the cockpit, not the stick (me!).

I'm debating on getting either the T.16000M or the VKB Gladiator Mk2 Pro. The latter is much more expensive, but I like the fact that it doesn't have a twist axis - if I am to use rudder pedals, I want to get rid of the habit of twisting the stick when applying rudder. For rudder pedals, I really really want the Crosswind... The only problem is that getting both will cost ~$600 and I will still have to get a throttle.

Gotta start saving up... Good thing is that I'm not married yet so I don't have to explain this to anyone...

[ATAG_kiwiflieger]

Thanks all for your input - think I might go for the T.16000M or the HOTAS version, if I can find one around. The VKB Gladiator stick also looks worth looking into, but I dislike the idea of having to pay an arm and a leg to get it shipped down to this part of the world (where everything seems more expensive than elsewhere!)
Will take on Sharkbait's suggestion of using the Joycurves tool, although I tried it before and it didn't appear to work - guess that was just me setting it up wrong.

Salute all

[Pans]

Kiwi, i think you've probably chosen well.

I know I'm late to the party, but I can add something meaningful, if only to completely eradicate the suggestion of the F.L.Y.

I've been using a FLY 5 and I would absolutely, definitely not recommend it has a stick. Mine has not had a hard life by any means but the throttle axes very quickly started spiking badly, presumably because the potentiometers are made of cheese. The stick itself I believe uses a magnetic sensor and seems to be smooth an accurate. However the centering mechanism uses a spring and cone. In principle this is fine but the spring is too stiff and I found breaking the detent utterly precludes accurate stick control and you end up constantly over-correcting when lining up a shot or attempting to fly in formation. This is remedied with the use of a couple of cable ties on the spring but is not a step that I think anyone should have to take to make a stick usable. Furthermore the drivers for the stick don't seem to be particularly reliable. If I had to think of one positive, it's that there are a good assortment of switches and buttons. I quite like the scroll wheel for changing field of view and the POV hat is good for trimming elevators and rudder.

When my throttle levers started spiking I looked around for a replacement but instead decided to keep my stick and just buy the then-newly released Thrustmaster TWCS, the same as you can get in the T16000 HOTAS system. This throttle seems to be really very good, though obviously its longevity is yet to be proven. The number of hats, axes, switches and buttons on the TWCS mean that with a stick you would absolutely be able to fly completely HOTAS should you want to. On the strength of the throttle and the reputation I've seen of the T.16000 I think you're making a very good choice.

Incidentally I've had a VKB Gladiator Pro Mk 2 on order since the end of March and all being well it should be shipping this week.

[farley]

Incidentally I've had a VKB Gladiator Pro Mk 2 on order since the end of March and all being well it should be shipping this week.

Hey Pans, would really like to hear your thoughts on your new stick once it finally gets to you and you have had a chance to give it a workout.
Looks great.

[ATAG_kiwiflieger]

OK, I've just taken the plunge and ordered the Thrustmaster T.16000M HOTAS - should arrive Friday or Monday. Thanks all for your input and I'll be sure to post my thoughts on it here in the days coming.

[PreyStalker]

I'm sure you'll like the stick, especially with the improvements they made.

Just wondering, did you get the Thrustmaster rudder pedals too ?

Was hoping to hear someone's opinion of them with CLOD...

[ATAG_kiwiflieger]

Well, it's here and... wow.

I T ' S A M A Z I N G

I decided to take a few flights on the TWC practise server to test it out, going through a few combat maneuvers that I usually spin while trying and seeming to pull those off alright, before having a go at the AI and getting a higher kill rate than I would normally. Of course this could all be placebo...

Maybe it's too early to judge durability but if you're looking for a great, fairly cheap HOTAS, get this one (definitely). You won't be disappointed (probably).

@Prey Stalker - I was also looking at getting the rudder pedals but that's so many dollars extra - maybe next time I have the money for an upgrade. Hearing someone's opinion of the pedals would be great.


Now, off to bind all those extra controls to something...

[ATAG_Colander]

Well, it's here and... wow.

I T ' S A M A Z I N G

I decided to take a few flights on the TWC practise server to test it out, going through a few combat maneuvers that I usually spin while trying and seeming to pull those off alright, before having a go at the AI and getting a higher kill rate than I would normally. Of course this could all be placebo...

Maybe it's too early to judge durability but if you're looking for a great, fairly cheap HOTAS, get this one (definitely). You won't be disappointed (probably).

@Prey Stalker - I was also looking at getting the rudder pedals but that's so many dollars extra - maybe next time I have the money for an upgrade. Hearing someone's opinion of the pedals would be great.


Now, off to bind all those extra controls to something...

Mine has been with me for a few years without a hitch. Sadly I can't say the same about my which died out of nowhere.

[PreyStalker]

Well, it's here and... wow.

I T ' S A M A Z I N G

I decided to take a few flights on the TWC practise server to test it out, going through a few combat maneuvers that I usually spin while trying and seeming to pull those off alright, before having a go at the AI and getting a higher kill rate than I would normally. Of course this could all be placebo...

Maybe it's too early to judge durability but if you're looking for a great, fairly cheap HOTAS, get this one (definitely). You won't be disappointed (probably).

@Prey Stalker - I was also looking at getting the rudder pedals but that's so many dollars extra - maybe next time I have the money for an upgrade. Hearing someone's opinion of the pedals would be great.


Now, off to bind all those extra controls to something...

I'm just way ahead of my time....

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ad.php?t=23581

Glad you're happy with the new toys and that Thrustmaster thought the same way as me