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Thread: Operation Dynamo?

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    Operation Dynamo?

    I'm sorry to throw a ranty bitch session here but JESUS H. CHRIST!!! Who has the HARDON for operation DYNAMO??
    8 hours ago I logged off from OPERATION DYNAMO! 7 hours prior to that I logged out from OPERATION DYNAMO. And HOLY Mother of CHRIST!! It's on now. WTF is going on here I feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog's day. I can't get away from this GD map. I go from here to KANALKAMPF. HOLY HELL!! There are more than the 2 maps I've played this entire GD week.
    /Rant off

    Please fix the rotation so there is more than 2 maps being played every 3 maps.
    Thank you.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Other than perhaps being active a little too much, what's wrong with Operation Dynamo?

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Quote Originally Posted by TWC_Pans View Post
    Other than perhaps being active a little too much, what's wrong with Operation Dynamo?
    E3s are horrible

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Perhaps BOS would better suit your preferences.
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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Wow your life must be super smooth and stress free for this to be a problem to you.

    Just remember this is all put up for free, all the missions are written by community members from a difficult code and that, whilst there are many many things in this world that deserve your outrage, not having the mix of maps you want in a free server isn't one of them.
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    Veteran Combat pilot Hurricane's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    I hardly play CLOD MP anymore and have been playing 1946 single player missions.

    With the BAT mod installed. More aircraft, more theatres of war.

    Ok the graphics are a bit dated, but don't look too bad with SweetFX installed.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Am I the only one who can bear the E3s with some degree of indifference?

    Dynamo's not at all a bad map when there are plenty of people on willing to work together to achieve objectives... Hell, the only thing I dislike about it is the lack of Jagdbombers...


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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    The mapcycle on our server is randomized.

    It was just a coincidence that Dynamo was always running when you wanted to fly.


    Maybe in just the same way as your caps lock randomly kicks in ...

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_PanTast View Post
    The mapcycle on our server is randomized.

    It was just a coincidence that Dynamo was always running when you wanted to fly.


    Maybe in just the same way as your caps lock randomly kicks in ...

    Last edited by SIA_Sp00k; Apr-24-2017 at 06:37.
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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    I'm starting to question how random it is though.

    I feel like I'd prefer a map rotation. This causes other problems of course with perhaps my favorite not coming up. I LOVE Fall Rot. Anyway.....


    Today it was Dynamo which I don't mind then Hellfire Corner for two hours back to Dynamo.

    It has gone Kanalkamph which I hate to another map back to Kanalkamph way too often to feel it's a random draw.


    The problem Blue has is the E3. A lot of pilots have a hard time with it. For Kanalkamph the flight times so long I don't fly Blue if I don't have a few hours to kill. I've been complaining about Kanalkamph for two years now. It feels like a campaign map where one can expect to fly for an hour with not much fighting. It is pretty good though at 50 people plus and I'm in a Spitfire. It's a very tedious map in a 109. Thankfully I can fly either side but when it's 25 Red to 10 blue I don't even log in to play Kanalkamph and I'm not alone. I joined in the other day only because I saw Drock in Server in an 88 and went to help. He laughed and was apparently just talking to another pilot about how Kanalkamph scares the blues away.


    Both these maps keep more blue out of the server. Kanalkamph more so than Dynamo. Unfortunately so does my favorite Fall Rot so I fly blue there when it's my favorite Red map but it's still super fun either side.


    I feel keeping Blue in server is key to fun. There are way more red pilots. You often see a two or three to one advantage RED while these maps are up. Again more so Kanalkamph than Dynamo or Fall Rot.

    Dynamo is on again right now with 25 Red to 18 Blue at the time of writing when just a half hour ago Blue was more numerous for a good period of time. I was excited and went to go fly a Spit when the Blennie boys won the map and Dynamo came on again.


    My personal opinion is that the E1 and E3 are really fun. My onloy hated map is Kanalkamph and just for the too long flight times on blue for a casual session.



    Edit/// Once Oye Plage is gone and it's E3's vs Spit 1a 100 octanes it's a real struggle. I just had the best fight with Biggs though he got me had to jump out. It was an exciting one.

    Numbers really started to take a hit when you just get pummled and your outnumbered more than 2 to 1. Currently 19 Red 4 Blue.

    I believe it could use some closer airfields to the coast. This map has long flight times as well.

    Perhaps for fight balance Spit 1s and 1a sans 100 octane as has been done in other maps when it's early war. Or give us some E4s. Is this section in the war before or after the map where Luftwaffe has LeHarve and we have e4s?

    Before I even finished this edit the server reduced drastically. With no 109s to shoot at Red started to leave..........

    I'm not asking nor do I want air quake but some maps could use some tweaks.
    Last edited by 7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER; Apr-24-2017 at 18:51.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    I think the challenge is always historicity vs playability.

    When I started CloD three months ago, I primarily flew the Bf 109E-1, so I don't mind flying the E-1s and E-3s with manual prop pitch control. However, as SmokeJumper mentioned, it does get tough when you have to fight against 100 octane Spitfire Ia's (I don't have the technical knowledge to know exactly what makes the 100 octane Spitfire Ia a better plane, but my 109E-1/3 always feels very sluggish and slow against it).

    Perhaps the way it is set up now in Dynamo is historically correct - maybe the LW did have to fight against superior British planes at this point in time. In that case, the way we have it should be fine.

    However, if "playability" is also valued, we can somehow try to make the playing field more even. I put the word playability in quotes because it will always be difficult to determine objectively the level of skill required to fly either Red or Blue planes with equal competence and all the factors that determine the level of enjoyment associated with it. Making a very simplified assumption that letting Blues fly E4s helps even out the field, perhaps we can consider, as a compromise, adding a considerably distant airfield with Bf 109E-4s and E-4/Ns available. Alternatively, we can limit British airfields with 100 octane Spitfire Ia's and place them very far away, making Mk I's more compelling to fly for more pilots (I assume the performance gap between the regular Mk I's and the 109E-1/3s is smaller; also I believe Mk Is have manual pitch).
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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Dynamo is one of the best map on the server. Probably the only map where not all flying e4N and IIa hit and run sir Robin chickens. Also airfields positions make the battles more unpredictable, intensive and interesting. What a shame... how boring are the rest maps in front of exotic dynamo.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Shark the Spit 1 is a killer. It climbs fast and turns tight with no armour making her lighter. She's a real beauty she's just more difficult to fly. The same reason pilots don't fly the Spit 1 is the same as the E1 and E3. Engine management is harder for the green pilots.


    If we are not to get E4s just dropping the 100 octanes would help balance it. The RAF has two options for easy engines in the Hurricane and Spits 1a while we do not have the same single engine option.

    Often even at the start of the map guys will bring over the 1a 100 leaving Hurricanes untouched at Oye Plage.

    Bumping E3 the airfield up a few squares from Estree and dropping the 100 octane fuel is my most simple solution I can think of. Adding a second e3 field would be nice too.

    I also agree with Ripgrund in not wanting the ruin the early war map. In Fall Rot if you want a 1a 100 you need to fly nearly 20 minutes from LaHarve so you see a lot more Hurricanes and Spit 1s. Flying in an E3 on Fall Rot isn't like the great Canadian tradition of seal clubbing.

    I am guilty of taking that 20 minute trip and joining in. Spit 1a 100 vs an E3 is an easy fight and I'm guilty of taking the easy out as well.
    Last edited by 7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER; Apr-25-2017 at 12:01.

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    Supporting Member TWC_Mackers's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    I've never seen the map played without Hurricanes in Olye Plage.

    The thrill of taking off with the flak is great for me, 75% fuel and balls to the wall !

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    You guys know the E-3 has slightly better performance than an E-4?

    Only big disadvantage are the lack of minen shells in the 20mm... but you can compensate for that by loading more AP and going for a pilot kill instead of wings or fuselage.

    By the way... For any Dunkirk scenario created by mission builders... there should be no Spit IA, Spit IA 100 octane or Spit IIA's... only the Spit I's were available at that time. (and they were using 100 octane) There were Hurri I Rotol 100 octane for those on the Red side who want an easier aircraft to control.
    Last edited by RAF74_Buzzsaw; Apr-25-2017 at 12:41.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Look evidently with my rant I really didn't explain myself well enough I guess.

    When there are 5 blue and 12 red on for operation Dynamo, with 2 blue flying bombers, then it is fully frustrating.

    I don't mind flying the 109E1 or E3. It takes a bit of skill to hang in a fight and not destroy the engine. But when you are flying against Spitfire Mk1A 100 octane and Hurricane 100 octane the E3 is outclassed especially when it 7 Spits and 5 Hurricanes against 1 E1 and 2 E3s. It's damn frustrating.

    So to answer in order of the questions asked.

    PANS, outnumbered and outclassed is not how I wish to spend what little relaxation time I have. Understand I work 14 hours a day 6 days a week.

    Jameswgm, E3s are fine when not outperformed and outnumbered.

    Baffin, No this suits me fine. Come fly blue when it's outnumbered.

    Boosterdog, again randomly is not every second map. divided by Agent and Booty and Kanalkampf.

    Hurricane, not changing, I rather like this sim.

    KIWI, It's not the E3 or the E1, It's about performances of airframes. Besides the decided advantage the SpitMk1 100 oct has, the Hurricane 100 oct also performs to the task of being a proficient killer of E1, E3, and in the right hands even the E4. Then when outmanned 4-1 there is no joy in the day.

    PanTast, Yeah it gets stuck when I'm ranting. Can't help it. But random? Holy crap my friend last week alone Logged in around 11:30 Kanalkampf with 30 minutes left into Dynamo. the next day log in to Dynamo outnumbered, outgunned, and outclassed. 2 days later Booty and Agent 20 minutes left into you guessed it Dynamo. Saturday weathers nasty here day off want to enjoy the time I have. Dynamo 15 minutes 2 blue players 17 red. Kanalkampf come on. Screw it off to play Starcraft. 4 hours later check what's running Dynamo 3:40:00 left to play. log off come back 7 hours later Dynamo 3:21:00 left to play.
    So yeah the randomizer is stuck.

    SmokeJumper , pretty much summed it up.

    SharkBait, I don't care about it being fairly split or nerfed to make the sides correct. It's the same map that is, what I consider, giving an undue advantage to the red side with hotter plane sets. Tune it down to SpitMk1 and Hurricane Mk1 and I'm fine with it. but when you boost the octane there's no getting away from a fight without 7 killers attached to your name.


    That pretty much sums it up for me so thanks for the feedback and if you fly red and you see blue outnumbered come fly blue.

    >S<

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    You guys know the E-3 has slightly better performance than an E-4?

    Come fly it with us maybe you could teach me a thing or two when it's 4 to 1. That is not sarcasm disclaimer. You helped build the game but I've not flown with you Blue side just Red. You've helped out with Hurricane stuff for me ages ago. I was super green so you might not even remember.

    I prefer the Panzersprenggranate in the E3 myself. The tracer rounds explode with an incendiary property. Good for setting Hurricanes on fire.

    Thanks for your input. I'd love to see the Dunkirk maps historical then. One of the reason why I love Cliffs is that early war there was a natural performance balance.


    Quote Originally Posted by JG51Ogg View Post

    PanTast, Yeah it gets stuck when I'm ranting. Can't help it. But random? Holy crap my friend last week alone Logged in around 11:30 Kanalkampf with 30 minutes left into Dynamo. the next day log in to Dynamo outnumbered, outgunned, and outclassed. 2 days later Booty and Agent 20 minutes left into you guessed it Dynamo. Saturday weathers nasty here day off want to enjoy the time I have. Dynamo 15 minutes 2 blue players 17 red. Kanalkampf come on. Screw it off to play Starcraft. 4 hours later check what's running Dynamo 3:40:00 left to play. log off come back 7 hours later Dynamo 3:21:00 left to play.
    So yeah the randomizer is stuck.


    This rant is a true story.

    I don't want to play Day of Infamy or World of Warships. If a map is up that doesn't end up a Blue bum smash I'm flying. If it's Kanalkamph I don't even log in if it's Dynamo I check numbers before I decide to fly.

    If Blue are in server the server is still going off. Blue always seems to quit out first and there are less of us and even less that bother flying both sides. It's gotten to the point where I get excited when I see Blue side heavy so I can finally fly my favored Spitfires. I'm now only in a Blue squadron because there are less Blue pilots so I stuck up my hand to fly the short side.

    When it was 19 to 4 yesterday not one red came over. Then numbers took a nose dive in prime time gaming hours......

    It went Dynamo then Hellfire back to Dynamo yesterday afternoon. This is starting to be a regular pattern.



    Quote Originally Posted by TWC_Mackers View Post
    I've never seen the map played without Hurricanes in Olye Plage.

    The thrill of taking off with the flak is great for me, 75% fuel and balls to the wall !


    I have but boy do I ever agree with you. The scramble from Oye is fun as heck.



    Cliffs of Dover is my favorite game of all time. I think I have more hours in it than when I used to play World of Warcrack.
    Last edited by 7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER; Apr-25-2017 at 13:20.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Quote Originally Posted by JG51Ogg View Post
    Jameswgm, E3s are fine when not outperformed and outnumbered.
    Agreed, I was being a bit tongue in cheek tbf. That French map with E1/3s vs Hurri 100s and Spit 1s, with a spit 1a 100 available miles away is grand for balance. Against 1a 100s, the E3 feels outclassed.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jameswgm View Post
    Agreed, I was being a bit tongue in cheek tbf. That French map with E1/3s vs Hurri 100s and Spit 1s, with a spit 1a 100 available miles away is grand for balance. Against 1a 100s, the E3 feels outclassed.
    Fall Rot. My favorite map.

    From what Buzz says we shouldn't see the 1a 100 there either though. I've done that 20 minute flight to seal club E3s. I can only do it once though once I lose it back to Hurricanes or Spit 1s. The flight time is a good punishment / discouragement,.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER View Post
    Fall Rot. My favorite map.

    From what Buzz says we shouldn't see the 1a 100 there either though. I've done that 20 minute flight to seal club E3s. I can only do it once though once I lose it back to Hurricanes or Spit 1s. The flight time is a good punishment / discouragement,.
    Oh I agree, but it's inclusion isn't a massive deal compared to Dynamo where there usually ends up more 1a 100s on server than Hurris. As you say, the long flight tends to deter this somewhat on Fall Rot.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    PANS, outnumbered and outclassed is not how I wish to spend what little relaxation time I have. Understand I work 14 hours a day 6 days a week.
    Wow ! I must have too much free time. Feels like I play CLOD 14 hours a day 6 days a week !


    I know what you mean about the maps repeating themselves and blue pilots not wanting to fly E1s and E3s. I've noticed it too and that's why, this month, I've started flying red more or taking up 110s. I want to try bombers next month.

    My thinking is that the more planes I can fly, the more likely it is I can join a mission on either side and have some fun, regardless of the numbers or the mission.

    It is what it is at the end of the day and variety is good. To be honest it was becoming repetitive tearing up RAF in my 109


    I must say, it's been a blast learning new things and also how important it is to know the strengths and weaknesses of each plane. They're all dangerous flown to their strengths and in the right situations.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    You guys know the E-3 has slightly better performance than an E-4?

    Only big disadvantage are the lack of minen shells in the 20mm...
    Buzzsaw, I have an impression that rate of fire is lower with the E-3. Could you please check that?

    If someone is managing that plane correct performance is the same but yes, that's a lot of workload on a pilot esspecially in a close df.

    I really don't understand this complains, this mission is very good, it has a focus like every other Gruber's mission, it could be that the server is more empty in the American 'prime time'.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Actually Vranac provided these maps don't come up near the end of the day you can play until 9pm PST almost daily. Cliffs has been growing again with the rad TF news.


    If Kanalkamph or Dynamo come up at dinner time it's over. We are complaining because we'd like some tweaks so we can play THIS game into the evening over any other game.
    Last edited by 7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER; Apr-25-2017 at 16:52.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    This may be the wrong thread for this question... but can an E3 outrun a Spitfire Mk Ia (100 Oct) at low altitude? Assuming equal pilot skill. Same question for the 100 octane Hurricane.
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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkBait View Post
    This may be the wrong thread for this question... but can an E3 outrun a Spitfire Mk Ia (100 Oct) at low altitude? Assuming equal pilot skill. Same question for the 100 octane Hurricane.
    Spit Mk 1A 100 octane and E-3/E-4 are very close in sea level speeds. Comes down to the starting energy/speed, and to the pilot who manages his engine and trim better. As you get higher, the 109's get faster in level flight... but remember, if you are climbing or turning hard, then the German aircraft is going to bleed speed at a higher rate initially, so you need to be careful about how close the Spit is behind.

    Hurricanes are always slower... whatever the altitude.

    But a pilot with good skills who positions himself correctly can over-take any opposing aircraft... altitude trumps all for acceleration. A Hurricane at 3000 feet diving on an E-4N in level flight at sea level... the Hurricane is going to run it down.

    And by the way... there are too many E-4N's and Spit IIA's in most missions... they were rare during the BoB. Perhaps 50 max. E-4N's out of 700+ 109's. Max. 90 Spit IIA's. (in late October) out of 600 + British fighters. 5/8's of British Fighters were Hurricanes, only 3/8's Spits... 30-40% of Germans were E-1's, most of the rest were E-3's/E-4's.
    Last edited by RAF74_Buzzsaw; Apr-26-2017 at 01:29.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    Spit Mk 1A 100 octane and E-3/E-4 are very close in sea level speeds. Comes down to the starting energy/speed, and to the pilot who manages his engine and trim better. As you get higher, the 109's get faster in level flight... but remember, if you are climbing or turning, then the German aircraft is going to bleed speed at a higher rate initially, so you need to be careful about how close the Spit is behind.

    Hurricanes are always slower... whatever the altitude.

    But a pilot with good skills who positions himself correctly can over-take any opposing aircraft... altitude trumps all for acceleration. A Hurricane at 3000 feet diving on an E-4N in level flight at sea level... the Hurricane is going to run it down.
    Wonderful summary - thanks Buzzsaw! I didn't know that the 109 can get faster in level flight at higher altitudes assuming equal starting energy... Is this true in space (7k+) as well?? At what altitude does the 109 regain it's climb advantage? (So I know how much to slowly dive and drag when I see a Spit with me at 7k+)


    Dynamo was on tonight when I logged in, and I was able to run away from a couple of 100 octane Spitfire Ia's long enough in my E3 to get help (thanks Kiwi and Blasto!).
    System Specs || CPU: Intel i5-4690k 3.5 GHz Quad-core / GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 G1 Gaming 6GB / RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3 4GB x 2 / SSD: Samsung Evo 850 500GB and PNY 240GB / OS: Windows 10 Pro
    Flight Equipment || Stick: Logitech Extreme 3D Pro / Throttle: CH Pro Throttle / Pedals: MFG Crosswind / View: Track IR 5

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  36. #27
    TF Leadership RAF74_Buzzsaw's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkBait View Post
    Wonderful summary - thanks Buzzsaw! I didn't know that the 109 can get faster in level flight at higher altitudes assuming equal starting energy... Is this true in space (7k+) as well?? At what altitude does the 109 regain it's climb advantage? (So I know how much to slowly dive and drag when I see a Spit with me at 7k+)


    Dynamo was on tonight when I logged in, and I was able to run away from a couple of 100 octane Spitfire Ia's long enough in my E3 to get help (thanks Kiwi and Blasto!).
    The 109's all have a higher terminal dive speed... so if you can dive your 109 to its max speed... approx. 750 kmh... then a Spit or Hurri which tries to follow will break up.

    That is why experienced 109 pilots generally try to keep 3000 meters under them... that way they can dive away.

    Re. 7k versus Spits... depends if it is a Spit IIA or IA... IIA much better up high. Versus a Spit IA... the E3/E4 is superior up to 8000 meters... remember your maximum rpms can be increased to 2600 in the E-1/E-3/E-4 at altitudes over 6000 meters. (historically the Jagdflieg put out a notice telling all pilots this was ok procedure) In the E-4N, you can increase them to 2800 rpm. We have modeled this in the game.

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    Supporting Member PanTast's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Randomization:
    This mechanism cannot be stuck. If it would stuck, there would either be no server at all or no mapchange.

    Its true that the mechanism of randomization is not perfect (because this is one of the hardest things to program - if you want real randomness) but we wont get anything better. So please stop complaining.


    John Lydgate: “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

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  40. #29
    Veteran Combat pilot Hurricane's Avatar
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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Quote Originally Posted by JG51Ogg View Post

    Hurricane, not changing, I rather like this sim.
    I didn't ask you to buddy.

    Best regards,
    Mike.
    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.

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    Re: Operation Dynamo?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_PanTast View Post
    Randomization:
    This mechanism cannot be stuck. If it would stuck, there would either be no server at all or no mapchange.

    Its true that the mechanism of randomization is not perfect (because this is one of the hardest things to program - if you want real randomness) but we wont get anything better. So please stop complaining.




    Can we please just get a map rotation then? A rotation is common in fps servers. We're used to it in other games and seeing as you have pointed out how hard it is a rotation is ideal. Every so often swap maps around in said rotation.

    If we dislike something we're going to complain or it doesn't change. The randomizer is not feeling so random and the programming is difficult. I'm proposing perhaps a more simple solution?

    It's not just Ogg and I complaining. Guys whine in TS often we're just the ones that don't mind discussing it and opening ourselves to derision and comments like go play something else.

    We're the guys providing the RAF with targets.


    I'd also like to point out when London Ruft had wicked wind RAF complained so much Ezzie changed it. No one liked the Canturbury field so Ezzie changed it. When his map drained out the server he modified it. I hope to make a scenerio to provide to ATAG one day and if there are major complaints I'd like to think I'd change it as well. I love this community. I make sure I'm in ATAG TS and engage people and make friends.

    I'm not trying to wreck your show. I consider many many ATAG members gaming bros.
    Last edited by 7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER; Apr-26-2017 at 11:56.

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