Gunfighter Review

[ATAG_Highseas]

OK... work in progress right here.

I've only had an hour or so flight time.

So... Gunfighter base and Thrustmaster Warthog grip !

First off, installing the new pcb in the stick is pretty straightforward

Then comes the merry dance with the various cams and springs supplied.
I spent about three hours messing about with this. And man was I bored of that by the end !

The base with is standard settings is set up for the stock plastic handle from VKB.

Put the heavy Warthog grip on that and it flops about like a drunken jellyfish at the underwater limbo world championships.


The Warthog cam is essential.

The standard #20 springs I changed and ended up with #40 on the elevator and #30 on the ailerons... I may go up to #40 on ailerons too and see how it feels. at the moment it doesn't self centre without being put there. Not that that is a problem.

Basically this is as light as a feather, and silky smooth... so far I have left the dry clutches with next to no grip. Might change that as we go ahead... might take some of the spring tension feel out of it and offer a bit more a hydraulic feel. We will see.

There are so many alternative setups here that it is likely to take me a while to find my happy spot.





Comparison to Warthog?

I grew to loath the Warthog. Heavey heavy spring, sticky mechanism, and spent much of my time fighting that rather than the enemy, so I'm biased...

Its worth remembering that all new kit takes time to adjust to... so I will come back and recap here a couple more times as my impression widens...

but it's immediately clear that in my case it is far far far more accurate.

I'm mean HUGELY so.

One caveat here, my warthog base was sticktion hell. Not sure if i was just unlucky, or what... but this is night and day. So much so that I really do need some time to get used to this monumental change.

So far...

I like this. A lot.

Tune in again next week for more news!



Oh.. also.... i did have to re configure my controls as the joystick assignments got jumbled again... but that's a simple find and replace in the confuser.ini

What I hadnt expected is that the firmware for the Warthog grip changes the button numbering on the grip... so all those had to be remapped.

Took maybe 3 minutes.

[ATAG_Highseas]

OK OK OK... so i didnt go to sleep yet after all.....

tried the #40 spring on ailerons.

Went back to #30, and kept #40 on the elavators.

Haven't played with the clutches still.


Anyone want to buy a Warthog Base ?

Would make a good door stop, or I dunno. blunt instrument....

[ATAG_Highseas]

ADDITIONAL

I suppose there is also the fairly obvious question that I haven’t mentioned at all yet.

Is it worth it?

Let’s make no bones about it... these are hellishly expensive. These are not the sort of thing you just nip out and buy on the spur of the moment (unless you are either seriously minted or utterly deranged) or, as is apparently the norm in seriously minted circles, both.

I was rather hoping that mine might slip through the import and VAT net.

Luckily for all of us here in the UK I was not granted any such reprieve and the very fabric of our society was protected from unravelling by HMRC.
Horrah !!

In my case the Warthog had got to the point of not remotely enjoyable to fly with. I was already very much in the market for an alternative stick. This past two months I haven’t bothered doing the "Thrustmaster Strip and Regrease Dance" (euwwwww!) and man does it show.

For me (due to my preference for readily available buttons) the choice of new stick came down to either the CH Fighterstick, or the Gunfighter base which as far as I know is the only aftermarket device that will allow connection of the Warthog grip.

The other option would be to sell the warthog complete and go with the Gunfighter with standard WWII grip, recoup some of my Warthog investment and map the extra buttons to the keyboard.

Cams v Pots.... Warthog Grip v WWII Grip and keyboard bindings?

I imagine the CH would also have been an excellent choice. But to be fair... I wasn’t actually looking for a budget option, I was looking for an end game solution. I think I have found that. Albeit at a high initial cost.

Interestingly I switched from CH Pro pedals to Slaw about a year ago. Was thinking about this last night and must say I don’t pay the pedals much interest. And that is because I simply don’t notice them. Not because they don’t do anything, but because they are so unintrusive. They just work without any drama. I’m pretty confident that the Gunfighter will do the same.

And here’s the thing:

If you don’t really noticed the stick you fly with / haven’t really thought about it... Then my advice is to stick with it (see what I did there?!).

Same with the other peripherals. If you don’t notice them I’d suggest they require no upgrades !


So

Was it worth it?

Yes. Though given the cost it’s most certainly not a decision to take lightly. (Unless minted / deranged or a happy, yet presumably oblivious, combination of the two)

Will add to this review after a week when I have grown more used to the new feeling of flight.

Until then; Good day to you all.

[ATAG_Vampire]

Good stuff Seas, as always, thanks mate.

As you know I am interested in this stick and any information you can pass on will benefit me and many others.

We all know that a) You are seriously 'minted' and b) Utterly deranged.

However, we lesser mortals will not hold that against you.

o7

[ATAG_Highseas]

Good stuff Seas, as always, thanks mate.

As you know I am interested in this stick and any information you can pass on will benefit me and many others.

We all know that a) You are seriously 'minted' and b) Utterly deranged.

However, we lesser mortals will not hold that against you.

o7

hahah .. minted my arse !

I'm flat broke most of the time ! I have no comment beyond that.

I also had some initial thoughts on the dry clutches which I sent to VKB just as a sort of heads up.



The idea is great, the execution in this the MK1 might need a bit of review.


Paraphrased version of what I wrote follows:

The hex head adjusters on the clutches are very awkward what with having to take the base off to get to them. And then you can't get a socket on the front one as the pcb at the front of the unit at it's output socket is in the way, so the stick has to come off and then the whole gimbal has to come out to make the adjustment.

It makes fine tuning very very hard (if not impossible) as you have to take it all apart, then adjust, then put it all back together, and hope you somehow guessed right.

A cross head screw type assembly on those rather than the brass nut assembly would help immensly as would either access from the top rather than having to take the base off and the gimbal out. (or a couple of holes drilled in the base plate to allow easy access which would do the same thing.)

I'm not using the clutches at present as a result. (which is fine, but I can't help thinking it sort of makes them a bit redundant)

Basically I think they need to be adjustible with everything assembled.




Bare in mind this is after just one evening so I may well figure out that actually it can be done with everything bar the base fitted together.

Also it doesn't change my very positive experience using this last night. It's smoooooooth.

That's all for now kids !

[9./JG52_Meyer]

Hello there Highseas how long have you had your Warthog ? I only ask because like you my new stick ( 6 months old now)
is like night and day in difference to my old stick. However my new stick is a warthog and my old one was the tm16000 I don't have this stickton thing that plagues a lot of people , but because I'm a curious twat I decided to buy a bracket and have the warthog mounted centrally between the legs and flew like that for about 2 months it took me ages to get used to flying this way as like 99% of the people here all my flying had been done with a stick on the desk in front of my right shoulder.I wouldn't fly any other way now

Anyway after a while I found out there were extensions that can be added to the stick that are supposed to make it even smoother so I bought a small one and WOW what a difference it makes , so being really happy with my Warthog had gone up another level to ecstatic . It is double the accuracy it was before but I am suspicious of this sticktion thing, is it a thing that can creep in Its not a subject I know much about so any info on it would be great.

Hals und beinbruch



.

[Bonditaria]

And here’s the thing:

If you don’t really noticed the stick you fly with / haven’t really thought about it... Then my advice is to stick with it (see what I did there?!).

Same with the other peripherals. If you don’t notice them I’d suggest they require no upgrades !

I think that's good advice.

Before my Gladiator Pro arrived last year I'd repeatedly spent time looking at joysticks, and then reading bad reviews to calm me down and keep me patient. Stiction videos on Youtube saved me some cash and frustration!

" light as a feather, and silky smooth" yes the VKB tech is great, and I really appreciate how my Gladiator Pro always goes back to exact centre when it's at rest. Precision made to last!

Looking forward to more of your reports as you fly with your new Gunfighter!

[ATAG_Highseas]

Hello there Highseas how long have you had your Warthog ?
.

Probably 2 years, possibly a little less. More than 18 months though.

But I was never particulalry happy with the mechanism and it got worse and worse requireing frequent regreasing.

I did think about an extention, which no doubt would make a massive improvement, but the only ones I could find were £70 or so. And I just wasn't prepared to do that.

I did lighten it hugely by tieing the main spring windings up which helped a lot but the stickion issue was always present.

Trying to make any kind of fine tuned input was just impossible as there was no smoothness to it.

Floor mounted I'm sure this base as it is would be acceptable. But I need my setup to serve as a regular PC as well as a simpit so floor mounting wasnt really an option.

The hard thing for me is to know how it compares to for example Lews £10 sidewinder. But compared to my warthog base in desktop form. It's lightyears ahead.

[ATAG_Lewis]

Thanks for the review Mr. Seas...very good...It has very much inspired me to never under any circumstances buy one!

[ATAG_Highseas]

Regards the damper adjustment. Cutting a slot in the top of the brass adjuster nuts will allow adjustment without dismantling. Not sure why it didn't come like that. Makes perfect sense.

Watch this space.

[SIA_Sp00k]

Hello there Highseas how long have you had your Warthog ? I only ask because like you my new stick ( 6 months old now)
is like night and day in difference to my old stick. However my new stick is a warthog and my old one was the tm16000 I don't have this stickton thing that plagues a lot of people , but because I'm a curious twat I decided to buy a bracket and have the warthog mounted centrally between the legs and flew like that for about 2 months it took me ages to get used to flying this way as like 99% of the people here all my flying had been done with a stick on the desk in front of my right shoulder.I wouldn't fly any other way now

Anyway after a while I found out there were extensions that can be added to the stick that are supposed to make it even smoother so I bought a small one and WOW what a difference it makes , so being really happy with my Warthog had gone up another level to ecstatic . It is double the accuracy it was before but I am suspicious of this sticktion thing, is it a thing that can creep in Its not a subject I know much about so any info on it would be great.

Hals und beinbruch
.

Like you Meyer, I have the Warthog HOTAS. Had mine for ages. No issues and I abuse it more than the neighbours cat. (in a non sexual way of course...that would be wrong). It'll likely be flying as well as it did out of the box, long after I am gone.

[ATAG_Highseas]

Like you Meyer, I have the Warthog HOTAS. Had mine for ages. No issues and I abuse it more than the neighbours cat. (in a non sexual way of course...that would be wrong). It'll likely be flying as well as it did out of the box, long after I am gone.

I'm glad of this. It would truely suck if everyone had the same expereince as myself.

no joy in that at all.

And that's why I endorse new Highseas Joyreplacement Bitters(tm)

The everyday neutralising formula that takes disappointing joy and replaces it with wonderjoy (r)


(may cause drowsiness, migraines, hypertension, lumbago, and gingervitis)

[9./JG52_Meyer]

Highseas thanks for the reply mate , yes its strange the marked difference in the same products.
I am like Spook says above really happy with the Warthog 6 months in .Time will tell i reckon

Hals und beinbruch

[1lokos]

Gunfighter base which as far as I know is the only aftermarket device that will allow connection of the Warthog grip.

FIY - VKB Gladiator PRO allow, Baur BRD-D, DS, N bases allow and future VirPil T50 base will allow. Plenty of use for this "F-16'ish" grip (Warthog or Cougar).

[BOO]

decisions decisions........

nah its the Logitec 3D pro for me!

[ATAG_Lewis]

its the Logitec 3D pro for me!

You're kidding me...I had 2 of those things...one I sent back and the donated parts for a trim slider...Both rudder pots broke down on mine..aparently a common fault....together with the strong return spring which I could do nothing about...Boo, for hecks sake get a sidewinder 2 if you want a budget completion stick...you're flying will be the better for it...Pimples!...

...I mean Simples!

[BOO]

You're kidding me...I had 2 of those things...one I sent back and the donated parts for a trim slider...Both rudder pots broke down on mine..aparently a common fault....together with the strong return spring which I could do nothing about...Boo, for hecks sake get a sidewinder 2 if you want a budget completion stick...you're flying will be the better for it...Pimples!...

...I mean Simples!

Twas a fly comment Lew - Panic yea not. Already got me two Sidewinders plus a precision just in case

The SW does well and I love the judder afore ze stall but DCS hates the thing. Set a curve and I'm in a world of weirdness. But since DCS is, in itself, a world of weirdness, the SW stays and will probably just keep buying modules I wont fly until the cooking is done.

All this said I cant fly the Huey (I should leave it there) with the SW so a long sticked non ffb thing is on the cards. Rest assured it wont be anything to with that stick though.

Then again, a 3D pro, the tube from a kitchen roll, some selotape and a few wires yanked out of my old hoover.................

[ATAG_Highseas]

MINI UPDATE

a standard 5mm socket for the damper adjusters works fine, the one supplied has a slighty thicker wall than standard.

so... setting up the dampesr is way eaiser than I previously said.

Im currently runnin with them at zero and #30 sproings now on both axis. Works well.

If i was doing helicopter work id most likely put teh #20 springs in and increase the damper. basically make it behave lkike a helicopter stick (yes,.. i have actualy flown one of those for real)



basically this thing is hugely adjustible.

I really realy like that. and the mechanism is excelent.

will report back after my next propper flight !

So far

[BOO]

MINI UPDATE

a standard 5mm socket for the damper adjusters works fine, the one supplied has a slighty thicker wall than standard.

so... setting up the dampesr is way eaiser than I previously said.

Im currently runnin with them at zero and #30 sproings now on both axis. Works well.

If i was doing helicopter work id most likely put teh #20 springs in and increase the damper. basically make it behave lkike a helicopter stick (yes,.. i have actualy flown one of those for real)



basically this thing is hugely adjustible.

I really realy like that. and the mechanism is excelent.

will report back after my next propper flight !

So far

er.......hat?

[ATAG_Highseas]

OK...

i dont need any longer



here it comes:








The mechanism is great. I love it.

I actually want a #25 spring set but have settled on the #30 for now on both axis.. might go down to #20 next week.

I'd love a #25



The one thing that is really clear to me is that this base is very adaptable. Assuming that you know what you are trying to achieve before you start changing stuff.

for example... mine is on a desk. with a heavy Warthog grip attached. #30 springs, and no damping (or it doesn't centre all on its own). I don't need it to centre though. I think for now that is just familiarity with my old stick(s).

And I don't fly "hands off" so I may well knock that down to #20 again. I may not. Main point is though... I CAN !



If I was to go helicopter piloting I would probably start with #10 springs (or maybe none at all) and heavy damping.

With an extension as well I'd probably go with maximum damping to stop the stick falling over, and use whatever springs gave no noticable tension. There just is no need for any spring centre return on that application.

My current feeling is that it's all about knowing what you need before you start changing things... and this setup certainly allows for that.


Regards the damping setup the included adjustment socket is too wide walled to get onto the front (Xaxis) damper head without fouling the output socket PCB. However.. my standard 5mm socket set one went in there plenty fine so what i said previously about disassembly of the whole body is definately not required.

The damping works really well and though it would be better serviced from above than below is still very easy to set up, just needs the base plate removing. (4 machine screws)... and hold the base on the "deskpit" by hand, (test).. twiddle twiddle.. (test).. then back on the base plate.


I think it's superb. Hugely adaptable which can be a bit overwhelming perhaps if you don't already have an idea of what setup to are trying to achieve.


That's it.

Review is done !

oh spoiler allert:


IT'S THE NUTS

EDIT

now back on #20 sprimgs, zero damping

man.. this could go on forever!

im happy now...

see my happy face:

[ATAG_Highseas]

er.......hat?

Thats in the main thread...

here:

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...l=1#post265975

do try to keep up Boo

(Or I'm telling).

[BOO]

my bad.......... was busy fighting sexism and the crushing weight of ego on another thread....

I'll pay more attention from now - don't tell. you can have my eagle eye action man if you don't.....

[ATAG_Highseas]

my bad.......... was busy fighting sexism and the crushing weight of ego on another thread....

Ever the crime fighter !

You are a credit!

[BOO]

Ever the crime fighter !

You are a credit!

I think you spelt "clown" wrong...

[ATAG_Highseas]

ok... so..

Did my final test tonight on the gatwick air race track...

I came to the econclusion that the stick was actually too light. (though i flew that track with more control than i have before)

so.. im back on the #30 springs. still not using any damping.

sorted !

[PhoenixCNE]

ok... so..

Did my final test tonight on the gatwick air race track...

I came to the econclusion that the stick was actually too light. (though i flew that track with more control than i have before)

so.. im back on the #30 springs. still not using any damping.

sorted !

With the extension I have taken to using a 50# and 20# spring on each axis which seems perfect for me so far, started with the 50s but like you I decided on a little heavier feel. I also tightened the dampeners down quite a bit as the stick likes to wag about with the warthog handle + extension. Loving this thing so far the little I'm getting to use it atm.

[ATAG_Laser]

ok... so..

Did my final test tonight on the gatwick air race track...

I came to the econclusion that the stick was actually too light. (though i flew that track with more control than i have before)

so.. im back on the #30 springs. still not using any damping.

sorted !

Glad you are getting the stick sorted seas.

Saw you on the bomber server last night, was on there tonight myself, just shooting up a few bombers

[Tibsun]

Patiently waiting for the Gunfighter to be in stock for Europe...

[ATAG_Highseas]

I'm surprised they haven't already listed them.

Still. On the plus side I can smugly say I have the only one in the UK.

Smug mode engaged.

[ATAG_Highseas]

Loving this thing so far the little I'm getting to use it atm.

Me too !