The spitfire radiator had six lever positions....

[Moach]

unlike the game depicts, the early marks spits with the manual radiator flaps did not actually move continuously from open to closed

instead, one would depress the button atop the lever, which unlocked a ratchet lock which would only stop in six possible places

look:
03_side_wall_002.jpg



now, the flight manuals state that one of these positions was supposedly a "neutral" or minimum-drag configuration, it also said the positions just past that towards closed would allow hot air to be directed to the guns to keep them from freezing up at high altitudes


and this "neutral" position is supposed to be marked by a little arrow on top of the map box near the base of the lever - however, this arrow is not present on the CloD cockpits, nor the lever actually lines up with the map box much at all (one of the two must be inaccurately placed, my money is on the lever)

here you can see the little arrow:
a47c6292ef899d9a1d2cea418979ddf3.jpg



but I've looked into this, and was able to determine that there are only six valid positions, and from that I was able to mark my joystick knob which I've assigned to radiator control accordingly, so that I can make things as realistic as possible

but I do not have any good sources to determine with any confidence which of those positions would actually line up with the little arrow - so I thought I'd ask any of the detail-obsessed sim-pit builders here and/or any of you who just happens to know this for a fact:

which of those six positions is the actual "neutral" stop?


many thanks

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Thanks for noticing that... we will try to adjust for TF 4.5, or if we don't have time... TF 5.0.

It looks like the original 3D artist placed the hooks so the lever's range of travel is too far forward and not far enough back... it should align with the red triangle when pulled back to the almost 'Shut' standard position for cruise.

Note... in 'Shut' position, the radiator isn't actually closed... it is always open enough to provide some cooling.

Later Spitfires had automatic radiator control.

[1lokos]

Well, at least from game management point of view better this continuous operation (by keys/buttons/axis) than use that awkward il-2:46 "R" for successive radiator positions.

[ATAG_Colander]

Well, at least from game management point of view better this continuous operation (by keys/buttons/axis) than use that awkward il-2:46 "R" for successive radiator positions.

Exactly what I was thinking, and...
To make it more realistic you would need to press a button to release it and then move a slider control

[ATAG_Highseas]

Exactly what I was thinking, and...
To make it more realistic you would need to press a button to release it and then move a slider control

I'm already spinning plates with my DIY "trim box / etc box"

now you want me to spin the cuttlery too... and the gravey boat.?

where wil it end?!

(yeah.. I know... crater #254 Lymphe. Again.)

[TWC_Mackers]

I see the notches in the lever pictures above, does anyone know if you could leave the lever, un-latched between the notches? Granted, I expect it wouldn't stay there for very long during manuevers, just wondering if it was possible.

[Baffin]

The graphics in the A2A Spitfire for MFS and Prepar3d depict this properly. The Air Publication 1565B Pilot's Notes validates Moach's description.

I tried to program the Thrustmaster Warthog for "Zones" to emulate the ratchet mechanism, but gave up in frustration.

[69th_Zeb]

~S~ all,

The radiator was a simple torque tube setup going into the wing by mechanical linkage. When the flap was opened, it created a vacuum, allowing additional air-flow through the rad. I would still consider it an analog setup, as the pilot could even cheat by depressing the latch button and leaving it halfway between the notches (unlikely, ha). I would honestly keep it the way it is. You can always assign it special keys by percentage as well and leave the analog alone.

Reason is some of us would like to have our own levers with mechanical notches that eventually tie into a potentiometer. Losing that ability would suck!

Here's a drawing (I have the 3,000 plus set ).

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

I don't think we will limit the radiator to six positions.

We will probably leave it as an axis.

What will change is the graphics.

All aircraft radiators are set up as axis, to make a change for one doesn't make a lot of sense.

[69th_Zeb]

One of the things I love about this sim is the flexibility for different interfaces. You have push and hold to adjust values, button-specific percentages, and actual axes. Pretty amazing and flexible to have everything available.

[1lokos]

I would still consider it an analog setup, as the pilot could even cheat by depressing the latch button and leaving it halfway between the notches (unlikely, ha).

Is just the way that lever stop's has make - practical for the purpose, but could be used a friction system and so a more variable position.

If someone want replicate the real lever behavior the actual controls allow, use a potentiometer (axis) and make a lever with 6 catches like real one.

[Tibsun]

I don't think we will limit the radiator to six positions.

We will probably leave it as an axis.

What will change is the graphics.

All aircraft radiators are set up as axis, to make a change for one doesn't make a lot of sense.

You can leave it at axis, but let it adjust to the 6 positions that makes an affect on the cooling, 109 radiators are not so easy to set up, but they can be adjusted finer. EDIT: the manual pitch rocker of the 109 on the axis acts like 3 positions already.

That would make a 109 rads advantage being finer, while Spits advantage would be easier to handle, but more gross.

Right now the Spits and Hurries are arleady favored by its simplyfied rads.

G.50 rads should be also almost like the 109's.

[Baffin]

I don't think we will limit the radiator to six positions.

We will probably leave it as an axis.

What will change is the graphics.

All aircraft radiators are set up as axis, to make a change for one doesn't make a lot of sense.

I think that this is a good idea, since the shutter had an infinite number of positions, but only 5 or 6 (Depending how you count them) settings that can be "Ratcheted" into. I'll bet most pilots just used the positions provided by Supermarine, but during a long duration ferry flight, someone was bound to use some chewing gum and paper clips to select a midpoint setting.

By leaving it as an axis, a clever programmer can set it up for realism or game play as he wishes.

[1lokos]

... the manual pitch rocker of the 109 on the axis acts like 3 positions already.

Real Bf 109 prop pitch controller (the "pole" in panel or the rocker in throttle) is a momentary (hold for effect) "ON-OFF-ON" switch - not a sliding lever - so the operation in game is the most close possible to achieve with keys and buttons.

Bf 109 PP operation is not like in Hurricane or G-50, wheres lever can be leaved in any position.

What can be done for Bf 109 radiator is change the analog indicator (slider) or digital HUD for show the amount of opening - actually only indicate if are opening or closing.

But I exchange all this for animated trim wheels and brake lever in Spitfire.

[Tibsun]

Real Bf 109 prop pitch controller (the "pole" in panel or the rocker in throttle) is a momentary (hold for effect) "ON-OFF-ON" switch - not a sliding lever - so the operation in game is the most close possible to achieve with keys and buttons.

Bf 109 PP operation is not like in Hurricane or G-50, wheres lever can be leaved in any position.

What can be done for Bf 109 radiator is change the analog indicator (slider) or digital HUD for show the amount of opening - actually only indicate if are opening or closing.

But I exchange all this for animated trim wheels and brake lever in Spitfire.

I know how the real "pole" for the 109 E-1, E-3 works, I was talking about how the game handles the slider axis for the pole as you say, ON-OFF-ON.

The pilot was also able to put the "pole" into the "feathering" gap, so he didn't need to hold it down all the time when going into feathering pitch.

Maybe the slider axis in clod is handeled that way:

0 to 33,3 is DOWN

33,3 to 66,6 is HOLD

66,6 to 100 is UP


Maybe this way the game could also handle a 15 - 30 - 45 - 60 - 75 - 100 with the slider.

However the mentioned fine tuning on the Spits rad, to not let the it fall into the gap by using chewing gum or else, is legitime, but there would still be some wind force on it.

You would also have to release it sometime, chewing gum only holds once. In combat that wouldn't be quite practical since you're changing speed often then.


We already have a 109 Rad wing indicator, however it's modeled a bit wrong, a little of the stick should stay up until the upper line of "AUF" when it's all the way open.

This length of the upper side is going also inside wich makes the stick read wrong of the size of the upper part.

The Spits gaps aren't readable yet at all, so its legitime to have it digital, If I could read the gap, I wouldn't want it to have it digital.

That virtual cockpit stuff is all cheating to me. Destroyes the immersion.