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Thread: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

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    Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Hi everyone,

    Edit - just realised i might have posted this in the wrong area. if so and if this is an issue could an admin relocate this post please? Thanks

    With the slow but steady influx of new players i thought it might be useful for them to explain what tab 7-1 is and what it can and cant do. Several times recently i have seen in chat 'where is the action?' or 'ive been flying around for 30 mins and not seen anyone - boring..' on a relatively full server so figure this might be useful.

    So what is tab 7-1?

    Its a non-historical capability that is designed to enable players to find each other in the great expanse of sky. Its especially useful when the numbers on the server are low (<10) or for new players who havent yet figured out the map, mission objectives or where players typically go to find action. Not all players use it - some find it an immersion killer - but i think most do at some stage. Its non historical but in my opinion is a good compromise between hard core real life and gaming. Others will probably disagree however.

    So how does it work?

    Pressing tab - 7 -1 will then show in your text box - assuming you have the necessary option selected - the distance and bearing of the nearest enemy single engined fighter that is flying above 500 m altitude and that is 30 km or less from you (i'm writing this from the blue perspective so am using km/metres - use your favourite conversion tool to convert for reds). But there are some caveats....

    It does not show twin engined aircraft including the Bf-110 fighter (which several of us like to lurk around in..) so you will not detect these using tab 7-1.

    It does not show aircraft of any type located less than 1-2 km from you. The closest distance it will display is 2 km and once the bad guy is less than 2 km (or whatever the code uses under the hood) it will not show it.

    For low server numbers (20 i think) it will actually provide you with a bearing to fighter located up to 90 km away (from memory) but will only show the distance as 30 km - you need to then apply some map / mission knowledge to narrow down the actual range based on where players usually fly.

    It will only show tgt bearings +/- 15 degrees in azimuth - in other word tgts bearings are displayed at 0, 30, 60, 90, 120 etc. When they transition from 14 degrees to 16 degrees in bearing from you the display will change from 0 to 30 degrees. So despite only showing +/- 15 degrees you can actually get a very good bearing estimate as they cross the 15 degree mark - ie when they change from 0 to 30 degrees you know they are pretty much 15 degrees in bearing from you. This is useful for accurate locating.

    And as mentioned above the radar will not show any type of aircraft that is below 500m - this is important to remember and is often the cause of people complaining about the crazy radar being all over the place.

    And its important to also realise tab 7-1 provides a bearing to the tgt and not (a) the heading you should fly to intercept or (b) the tgt's heading. More on this later.

    And the range is slant range.

    Here's some common observations to help explain what tab 7-1 can / cant do for you

    Tab 7-1 tells you there is a fighter 240 30 km. How should you use this info to intercept?

    If you fly 240 then there's a good chance you will end up in a tail chase and never really close the bad guy. So what you should do is look at the map and guestimate where this fighter is going. Once you have done that then you should fly either left or right of 240 depending on where you think its going to cut the corner. Sometimes i will fly 285 degrees in this case to cut the corner and when it changes from 240 to 210 i will then swing around to 240 and then 210 as i get closer. This takes practice and knowledge of the map/mission/usual hot spots.

    Tab 7-1 tells you there is a fighter 240 30 km. But when you do tab 7-1 30 seconds later its now say 120 15 km - wtf no aircraft can do that this, is this radar bugged?

    In this case what has happened is that when you were tracking the tgt at 240 30 it was the closest contact above 500m alt to you. By the time you do the next tab 7-1 another contact has popped up above the 500m floor and hence is now showing on radar. In some cases this might have been someone who has just taken off, or is someone who was flying low but has now climbed above 500m. Again knowing the map/mission/airfield locations will let you decide whether to now try and chase down this closer contact, run away from it, or continue onwards to your first contact estimating its flight path and waiting got it to become the closest tgt and thus is then displayed by tab 7-1 again.

    You are tracking a tgt and you are flying at 5 km altitude and it is getting closer. Tab 7-1 is giving you the following; 270 13, 270 8, 270 5, 090 2, 090 5. Thats odd i didnt see it and now its east of me - is this radar bugged?

    In this case what you have done is probably overflown/underflown the tgt (ie the change from 270 to 090 is suggestive of this) and from the min distance displayed as you transition from 270 to 090 you can get an estimate of altitude ie either ~ 2 km above or ~ 2 km below. Best to assume the worst case and look up very quickly just in case he's at 7 km and is now diving on you. Sometimes this might be due to a contact popping up under you but its usually a case of overflying/underflying the tgt.

    Tab 7-1 is showing a tgt at 240 30 km and you close the tgt and the distance counts down nicely 30, 25, 20, 15, 14 and then it dissappears altogether - what happened?

    Several things could have happened - the tgt dropped below 500 m or the tgt was shot down/despawned. Tab 7-1 will continue to show aircraft with dead pilots until such time as they fly below 500 m or are despawned / blow up etc.

    And lastly - do not rely on tab 7-1 to check your 6. One of the issues that was discussed when the changes were made to tab 7-1 a few years ago was the issue of players using it to check 6 rather than actually looking for themselves (the earlier version of tab 7-1 didnt always provide you with the nearest contact but gave you the details of some other contact so it couldn't be used to check 6) and i know from personal experience there are still quite a few players who do not check their 6 visually and are possibly putting too much faith in tab 7-1 to protect them. So in my opinion dont rely on tab 7-1 to keep you from being bounced and either use you own eyes to check or get a gunner-equipped aircraft and let him do it for you.


    There's probably a few other tips that players can share to help educate new players re Tab 7-1 - pls feel free to add them if you have them. Not all players use it and its possible to have lots of fun / combat without ever using it, once you know where the action is. But hopefully the above is useful to those players who want to understand how to use it and perhaps find the enemy more quickly than they have been in the past.

    Ezzie

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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Useful information for not only the newer guys but all fliers who use Tab-7-1 - this thread deserves a place in Lew's welcome post or a sticky at the very least.

    Thanks Ezzie!


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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Great post.

    For imperial measurements I use:

    Minimum Height - 1,500 ft
    Maximum displayed range - 15 miles
    Minimum distance - 1 mile (it will sometime report contacts as one mile away, but generally they drop off once closer than 2 miles).

    When over/under flying somebody its useful to remember that 1 mile is 5,280 feet (or 5k for sake of easy maths), so a target reported as 2 miles away is 7,500 to 12,500 feet away from you in any direction.
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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Thanks Ezzie...Great bit of info and will help folks (not just the new players) on the server....

    I have copied the link to this to give to new players...

    I'll ask Snap to move it to the 'Flight School' and 'Sticky' it to the top section...

    Thanks for the work you put in to this Ezzie...You are a star!

    ~S~

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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Moved and stickied.

    Great post, Ezzie!


    Oh, and a pro tip: Don't be climbing in a Spitfire high over friendly territory while checking your email believing yourself safe because TAB-7-1 is saying "Where? I don't see anything!" At least, not when Ezzie is online flying his 110. Why? Because 110's are not "seen" by TAB-7-1 and as a result, a complacent and unalert Spit pilot's monitor screen is apt to suddenly go BLACK!!!!!

    Ask me how I know.....

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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    Moved and stickied.

    Great post, Ezzie!


    Oh, and a pro tip: Don't be climbing in a Spitfire high over friendly territory while checking your email believing yourself safe because TAB-7-1 is saying "Where? I don't see anything!" At least, not when Ezzie is online flying his 110. Why? Because 110's are not "seen" by TAB-7-1 and as a result, a complacent and unalert Spit pilot's monitor screen is apt to suddenly go BLACK!!!!!

    Ask me how I know.....

    Thanks Snapper, Lew, Kiwi, Bouf et al - glad you found it useful and thanks relocating it Snapper.

    Ahh happy days Snapper - actually it was in the aftermath of that bounce when you mentioned in chat that the -110 was invisible that i realised i wasnt detectable.

    Ezzie

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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    With you Snapper.

    I copped an Ezzieing last weekend.

    Least he is indecriminate. I'm an Aussie, your a halfer, if you are not looking, Ezzie is one happy little Vegemite.

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    Combat pilot ZG26_Sir_Racha's Avatar
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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Based on the tone in this, is it intentional that twin engines are left out?

    s!
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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Racha View Post
    Based on the tone in this, is it intentional that twin engines are left out?

    s!
    From looking at the old threads when it was being amended and it was intentional give bombers more of a chance (remember they do show up on tab-4-1-2).

    The problem is I don't think they could just select bombers, hence why it's twin engined rather than bombers, but I'm finding it hard to get details on that aspect so would welcome any correction.

    I think it works pretty well, I think the true of having a 110 sneak up on me is good!
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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyBouff View Post

    I think it works pretty well, I think the true of having a 110 sneak up on me is good!
    I think it adds a good element to the game. I mean, we could all go around staring at bearings and distances and just find eachother that way, but there would be no jumpscares and no uneasiness. if the beaufighter doesn't show up on radar either, i think that would aid in this. us over in Blue could do with a couple of wakeup calls.
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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Racha View Post
    Based on the tone in this, is it intentional that twin engines are left out?

    s!
    As Bouf says I think there was a lot of discussion in the ATAG members forum about the changes to tab 7-1 a few years ago and one of the aims was to encourage more players to fly bombers by making them not able to be detected by raider. Tab 7-1 used to show bombers and fighters and if there were only a small number of bombers they were often hunted down like stray dogs via tab 7-1.

    So they removed all twins from tab 7-1.

    Will be good if the Beaufighter is also invisible to encourage people to fly that.

    Ezzie

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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Didn't it used to be once you had 2 kills you didn't get callouts any more? I'd like to see that put back into effect.

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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    I think Tab 7 1 is a great feature, but I would love to see it limited so you get no more info once a contact is within 10km from you.

    Most of us should be able to spot a contact at that range and it would just add to the drama, knowing there is a contact close, but having to find them before they find you.

    I don't know who did the coding for Tab 7 1 but I'd love to ask them if it's possible to trial it with the limit I mentioned above.

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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    tab 7 -1 is very useful for noobs like me but I find it madness that those Pesky 110 drivers get a free reign from radar.

    For a game that has realism at it's heart I'm sure the big fat ugly 110 would be spotted by radar and ground observation like any other aircraft!??!!

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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchell119 View Post
    tab 7 -1 is very useful for noobs like me but I find it madness that those Pesky 110 drivers get a free reign from radar.

    For a game that has realism at it's heart I'm sure the big fat ugly 110 would be spotted by radar and ground observation like any other aircraft!??!!
    well, you shouldnt have problem spotting such a big-fat plane in time. if you do, then you dont look around as much as you should.

    same goes for fighters. we at 9./jg52 just love to play with tab 7 1 hunters....its always fun when someone is chasing what he thinks is single contact and then bump into 4-5 of us.

    it would be nice if tab 7-1 could be set to have 1-2 minute cooldown between searches to prevent spamming it every 2 seconds. also it shouldn't be that accurate. in reality, people should rely more on their eyes.
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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Well, the game is all for realism. The missions on any server not necessarily (and it would be impossible to try just because of the numbers).
    British radar was much better than everything the Germans had at the time. If this was implemented, there would be a lot of complaints. There should be no airstarts for blue side, giving 109s just some minutes fighting time over England. British fighters would try to avoid German fighters and get the bombers, erm ... what bombers??? etc. etc.

    It is a fact that most players choose the 'hottest' plane available for both sides. Thus, if a missionbuilder wants to avoid pure 109-E4 vs. Spit IIa duel scenarios (and complete frustration for the few who opt for more interesting planes) he has to do something.

    Tab 7-1 is a compromise and many do not like it. A compromise by definition is never a perfect solution. But I personally think it is a good compromise.
    Don't forget:
    a) the more players are on server, the less useful it becomes. I (have to) fly often when not many players are o the server. Even with 7-1 long sorties without any contact are pretty common.
    b) a player with many kills in the mission will not get 7-1 contacts.

    When we fly on Sunday mornings it often turns out to be a Tab 7-1 hunt, few players just try to find each other on a huge map.
    But when Ezzie turns up (oh yes, we regularily check whether a 110 is on the server!) the game changes and our necks get a lot of exercise

    S!

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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    From using the search I can see most of these points came up the last time Tab-7-1 (and 4-1-2) were discussed, but perhaps its time to have a new discussion - though personally I'd wait and see what 4.5 brings!

    I'm relatively new still to the server but I'd say it feels in a good place. I can easily get fights, or try and avoid them with the information available, and it still allows you to be surprised by a twiny or somebody flying to avoid radar, as it should be! It is so very hard to strike the right balance between pure sim and fun, rewarding those willing to go the extra mile while still having spirited amateurs competitive!
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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    I'm with Da Bouff!

    Tab 7-1 aint perfect but since it seems unable to differentiate by type (or variant) having twins show up would be a disaster for heavy fighters and bombers alike. I'm sure any red disgruntlement at the current set up will dissipate somewhat when the Beau turns up!

    Increasing the distance and limiting the spammin, if possible, would probably help in many cases. How many times have I been fixated with a Tab 7-1 at 2 miles and not seen something coming down like a steam train from 3 miles....... or just assumed what I'm looking at is the contact. I think Prey Stalker and Gr00ve raise really good points. It may even encourage a bit more coms co-op but then again it may not.

    In the current incarnation it can also be used to bamboozle opponents too so its not always the advantage it seems - JG52 are fine exponents of the "jamming" tactic and I will often use it against people to who assume that cos the radar returns "where I can see anything" they assume ive gone to the deck when in fact I'm directly under or close on their High side.

    On balance though, and as it stands, I think it is a perfectly acceptable arrangement.

    S!

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    Combat pilot ZG26_Sir_Racha's Avatar
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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Quote Originally Posted by III./ZG76_Ezzie View Post
    So what is tab 7-1?

    Its a non-historical capability
    Speaking of realism eh?
    Last edited by ZG26_Sir_Racha; Aug-29-2017 at 12:35.
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    Re: Tab 7-1 101 / refresher

    Great summary.

    slant range
    For those of you who may not know, this means straight line distance between you and the target. For example, a target 3km directly above you would be Down Range (ie, distance as measured along the earth's surface) 0km but slant range 3km.

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