Water=-1

[DD_Crash]

Whisky =1
Water =0

[ATAG_Dave]

I guess in any sim it would be nice if everything was exactly as (every)one wants it all the time. Not possible of course - so as they say in The Sopranos "Water you gonna do?" ......

Sea what I did there? - damn there I go again....

[=AN=Lobo]

Sure, why not?

Ice and a slice Sir?

With one floating Spitfire with seaplane config lines on top!

Now, serious... When TFS look at water and weather effects and physics, CloD will be the greatest flight sim today.

[VO101_Tom]

But I just want to point a think... A TFS member talked about BIS ArmA 3. And ArmA 3 is a masterpiece with constant updates. And runs like this in an i73440, 1050Ti, 16gb in 1080HD...
...

Nice video, thanks.
Could you please place 100 chopper or aircraft into the mission, and repeat the same flying with fps counter ON? It would be great to see the view from 30K alt too.
And repeat it with same aircrafts, but add ground units, ships and land battle?
Then repeat it with online players? Af least with couple of dozen client?

We can continue this discussion after it.
Thanks.

(I am Arma player since Operation Flashpoint, and I have full A3 too, I know very well the performance issues, the online fps drop issues, the unplayable missions, bugs and glitches, how ridiculously huge performance drops with smoke and effects. The main reason why I wrote #21 post because I know Arma and Clod too...)

[=AN=Lobo]

Nice video, thanks.
Could you please place 100 chopper or aircraft into the mission, and repeat the same flying with fps counter ON? It would be great to see the view from 30K alt too.
And repeat it with same aircrafts, but add ground units, ships and land battle?
Then repeat it with online players? Af least with couple of dozen client?

We can continue this discussion after it.
Thanks.

(I am Arma player since Operation Flashpoint, and I have full A3 too, I know very well the performance issues, the online fps drop issues, the unplayable missions, bugs and glitches, how ridiculously huge performance drops with smoke and effects. The main reason why I wrote #21 post because I know Arma and Clod too...)

But you don't have a clue how water is rendered and handled, and my vídeo about ArmA 3 has nothing to do with AI, more units rendered, netcode... It's all about drops in FPS regards water quality and view distance. ArmA 3 is a complex simulation. And if we will talk about CPU cycles and AI... Well...

[ATAG_Colander]

But you don't have a clue how water is rendered and handled

Do you?

[=AN=Lobo]

Do you?

Google is my friend, and a loooongggg time ago I played around with some 3D stuff. And you know too very well a lot of nonsense we see in these topics.

I know too that If TFS goes PBR all this water, weather effects, need to be held to the future. But you know too the mess that is all water system in CloD, a big "to do" thing, like weather.

And I'm not talking about volumetric water with cool 3D waves, and amazing reflections and refraction. Every time I point a clear issue TFS jumps to talk like it's not an issue. I'm talking about aircraft touching any water and game engine doing what I showed in the previous videos. Today standard is:





But I think even a 2D plane without real refraction or reflection don't need to work physically like this:



And sorry by the ad hominem in previous posts. I know that CloD engine have a lot of "to do" things, and TFS will be stressed with all the work in the future with SC.

[farley]

Do you?

Well I can't speak for anyone else Colander, but....

I know how i handle my water, and speaking of such,oh my..... i feel mother natures call right now!

Sorry, that was bad..... it's my dry sense of humour leaking out.....

Damn... to late......

[DerDa]

Quote: ‚But you know too the mess that is all water system in CloD, a big "to do" thing, like weather.’

Lobo, you keep bringing up ‘big to dos’, ‘messed up’ and ‘catastrophic’ issues that very few people except you ever noticed and fewer still care about.
I love the water in Clod and I never even realised there was some collision issue with the props.
Maybe because I tend to avoid contact with water and other aircraft while flying.

Is it really that so hard to understand, that not all people have the same preferences as you have and that those peoples opinions are still no less valid than yours?

I wish all the TFS members who took the time to read and answer to these posts could have used this time to work on 4.5 instead.

Sorry for being outspoken and no offense meant but please: let those guys do their work.
We all will benefit from this.

[=AN=Lobo]

Quote: ‚But you know too the mess that is all water system in CloD, a big "to do" thing, like weather.’

Lobo, you keep bringing up ‘big to dos’, ‘messed up’ and ‘catastrophic’ issues that very few people except you ever noticed and fewer still care about.
I love the water in Clod and I never even realised there was some collision issue with the props.
Maybe because I tend to avoid contact with water and other aircraft while flying.

Is it really that so hard to understand, that not all people have the same preferences as you have and that those peoples opinions are still no less valid than yours?

I wish all the TFS members who took the time to read and answer to these posts could have used this time to work on 4.5 instead.

Sorry for being outspoken and no offense meant but please: let those guys do their work.
We all will benefit from this.

Very few fanboys. Here we are fanboys. A lot are flying BoX, War Thunder, DCS... I already said that I'm one of TFS best friends, I look to new customers that think CloD is ugly and bugged, and I know that the problem is just have some things to do and an outdated graphics engine. Great FM, netcode, content. And I really don't care if TFS don't like me. I'm thinking about CloD engine development.

But if TFS are looking to please only who post here and already own CloD, ok. I belive their aim is the competition. And the competition have better collision model, water model, weather model. I don't see why post things that already are looked, like AI, FM, new content, new shader model, Dx update... I like to point those "forgoten" things, because CloD have one of best flight sim engines today.

[Vlerkies]

The water in Clod is probably well down on any list of todo's, besides a slight tweek or 2 if anything.

There is much more fundemental stuff on the list that relate to flying/airframes etc that by their very nature should get priority and rightly so.
Take something like Falcon 4, stood the test of time not because of its pretty face.

[=AN=Lobo]

The water in Clod is probably well down on any list of todo's, besides a slight tweek or 2 if anything.

There is much more fundemental stuff on the list that relate to flying/airframes etc that by their very nature should get priority and rightly so.
Take something like Falcon 4, stood the test of time not because of its pretty face.

As I said, TFS was working in all these areas. And CloD have great FM, airframes, ballistics, netcode. I'm well aware of vital missing things. And the biggest are weather, AI, water/collision physics, better FMB. Those are the biggest "to do" that remains, and will fulfill the core for future expansions and new features. Other things are tweaks and bugs that TFS can handle more easily.

Remember... Storm of War wasn't just a flight simulation. Land and naval warfare are vital too.

Falcon 4.0 stood the test of time because goes open source... And had a very pretty face!

[VO101_Tom]

But if TFS are looking to please only who post here and already own CloD, ok. I belive their aim is the competition. And the competition have better collision model, water model, weather model. I don't see why post things that already are looked, like AI, FM, new content, new shader model, Dx update... I like to point those "forgoten" things, because CloD have one of best flight sim engines today.

Before anything else, I think clod graphics is one of the best among the simulators, clod have no reason to shame anything. There is areas which need to improve, but the overall graphics is great. Just surf a bit in the screenshots topic, you will understand.

We don't really care the competition. We see that DCS have super graphics, and very detailed cockpits, but we also see that it suffer very serious performance and netcode problems, especially on ww2 servers, on EDGE 2.1 Normandy map. It have very few flyable plane, and very limited mission types which the players can fly. Despite the lack of content the online servers often become very laggy and unplayable even with ~20 client online. We don't want the same for clod. Obviously.
Even if some players think it's outdated graphics, we care the fact ONLY, that it's proven that these models can handle huge player numbers and smooth gameplay. We are well aware, that there is really important bugs (graphically and others), which need to fix (well, we have a dedicated webpage for these, the bugtracker), but or priority is not improve the graphics (at least now), but the gameplay bugs, and new contents. I don't know anyone in TFS who would disagree with this philosophy. So as long as I am the head of 3D department in TFS, we will not increase mindlessly our 3d objects or texture seizes or polygon limits, just to get a simulator which looks great on screenshots, but would be unplayable in realtime gaming.

It's not a secret, We planning to convert the game and the cockpits to PBR, but We not wanted because of DCS or others did, but simply because we want to improve our simulator. The same with VR.

I read in other topics, that you referred yourself as a "crusader" who want to improve the game. Okay, then this is common with us, we want improve the game too. The problem is your methods. If you know coding or any area of CG or gaming industry, then we welcome any idea which can describe the problem AND the solution technically. But posting screenshots from other games, especially from other game genres is just pointless. I hope you don't get offended, but seriously, what do you think? Or expect? You post a screenshot of Arma, and suddenly 30 member in TFS do facepalm, then "Ohholyfuck the water! How the fuck we missed that? Quickly, someone search the "great water ON/OFF switch in DX11, and swith it ON"? It's not that simple. The water is not a simple 3D object like any other. The refracted water need to have 3D shape of the seabed too (clod haven't). The waves, tessellation, displacement mapping looks great, but still consume performance, especially the volumetric effects, and -suprise- nothing can build themself up alone, need someone who spend time and resources to build these effects, and integrate in into the game. And the used texture sizes also a very sensitive topic, if we increase the required videocard memory size, it can easily exclude the low PC specs from gaming - we don't want this either.

I don't say that we will never improve water, because sometime in the future I'm sure we will. But I would like to see lot of thing much sooner - for example a working weather system - in clod than nice tessellated, refracted waves on the ocean. The first could have huge impact of gameplay. The second is only an eye candy.

I wish all the TFS members who took the time to read and answer to these posts could have used this time to work on 4.5 instead.

Oh Man, I thinking exactly the same , I should have think twice before I post anything in public

Take something like Falcon 4, stood the test of time not because of its pretty face.

Yaayy, I am a huge fan of BMS 4.33, the whole simulator and the dynamic campaign is superb

[Vlerkies]

Falcon 4.0 stood the test of time because goes open source... And had a very pretty face!

So water in F4 for you =+1?

[=AN=Lobo]

Go PBR is good because eases the workflow and solve lighting issues. Good move.

I said in every topic the vital importance of full weather system. And in FB TFS page was stated that it's work in this area.

I posted videos of other software because it's 2017, and things like collisions and water can be improved with current low/middle range hardware. And other flight sims goes this way. I'm not crazy to suggest some performance hog to cripple performance. I can see that CloD don't have the seabed 3D mesh, I know that all water system need to be almost redone (thanks God it's almost nothing today) to TFS make a good one.

I always said that CloD netcode is superb. Since 46 it is. And the compromise between complexity vs performance in FM/DM is state of art. Aircraft, terrain, ground and sea units, clouds and effects are excelent. Dx11 and 64bits? Amazing.

I also know that TFS aren't Cloud Empire. Limited resources, and Luthier made crowdfunding hard today for WWII sims...

But I like the work made so far in CloD by TFS. If you guys hate me and this motivate the team with a lot of facepalms on me, but someday we can bomb an U-boat near Surface after it's fired a torpedo in a heavy storm with big waves, with 100+ pilots in a server, we all be happy!

[Tibsun]

Hey Lobo, I actually agree with you that your mentioned bug needs to be fixed, someday...
But please Lobo, please stop telling TF that they are denying everything.
They obviously don't do, they are just saying, one after one, other stuff needs to be done before that.
What you think is "denying" is more like a simple explanation why it can't be done right now.
The TF team hasn't seen any money and wont till TF 5.0, telling them you don't care bout the team doesn't let us like your posts.. does it?!
These are humans and being pessimistc in almost all your other posts doesn't motivate a team so please again, stop telling them to deny everything

As far as I understand, the original post "OP" is about a bug of planes ditching unnaturally into the water and after that one some posts lower about 2D models of water.
Just add feature request or bug report of that simple showcase and I would be quite happy.
Someday maybe they're adding the water wich was supposed to be in there as in the link that TF posted here. And someday, they might fix the ditching bug.

With that said. keep going finding bugs.. yours are good one I agree mostly with you, you got good ones, but it just can't be fixed in a split second... and sometimes the bigger community thinks it's in the 2nd rank alright? Keep that in mind.