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Thread: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

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    ATAG Member ATAG_SKUD's Avatar
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    BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    These are my first impressions of the BRD-DS against my other sticks the VKB Gunfighter and the TM Warthog. These are just my opinions. Your mileage may vary...

    I put in my order for this back in the Feb or March and because my Warthog was annoying me with its "notch" effect and because Baur was having some production delays I picked up a VKB Gunfighter a couple of months ago. So here is my general take on all three...
    Precision and solid feel - The BRD-DS hands down the best for smooth slop-free motion. It has beautiful progressive load from the perfectly scaled cams. The Gunfighter is good but still seems to have very subtle transition points and wants to favor the side that doesn't have the spring. The Warthog had big transition points and seemed to want to track along a dog-leg course when trying to balance pitch and roll.
    The build quality of the BRD-DS is the best of the three. It just reeks quality and ruggedness. Nothing cheap here, it feels like a $1500 piece of FAA certified gear. The KG13A grip is a precision work of art. The Gunfighter I have to admit made me feel like I might break it. The Warthog lasted me 7 years without any failures, what else can be said.
    The BRD has just four map-able buttons, I had to move some more functions to the thottle. It cals in Windows but I understand you can use the TM TARGET software with it as the PC board is made to work with the Warthog. I can't get TARGET to load in WIN 10 so I never tried it. The Windows cal works fine. The VKB software is the best with a vast array of tools I'll never need. It has 12 buttons with the bomb release button doubling as a hat switch. TARGET never worked so I'll pass on that assessment.
    Dealing with Baur was great, he always let me know what was going on with the order. His English is a lot better than my Russian and by keeping things simple and a with little help from Google Translate comms were no issue at all. I paid him through Paypal and he shipped Russia Post to South Korea with no issues whatsoever. It got here in a week while Korea was in the midst of major Thanksgiving holidays.
    The DS is the baby brother to the N. It fits my Obutto just about perfectly- maybe an inch higher than the VKB but it is not noticeable. The throw is longer and the spring load is substantially heavier than the 30 pounders I had on the VKB. The stick forces seems better harmonized than the VKB with my MFG rudders buts sometimes I'm tempted to grab it with both hands in a hard pull up. Its probable this could be remedied with the 50 # springs in the VKB but the shorter throw range may make that a too much of a struggle. Its very comfortable and I don't get any fatigue in hour-long flights.
    Bottom line this is the best fighting stick I have has since I stopped using the MS Sidewinder many years ago. BAUR packed it with spare cams, springs and buttons, so I think this is going to be my go-to stick for a long time. You can tell BAUR is a perfectionist and a lot of thought went into this piece of equipment.

    Skud
    BRD pic2.jpgBRD pic3.jpgBRD pic5.jpg
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Congratulation on your new Setup. I got my BRD-DS about 1 and a half year ago,it is a great Stick. I've read that the newer sticks can be used with Warthog or the new Virpil grip. I'm already thinking about one of those new bases,beeing able to switch grips easily is a big plus. I really like the KG13 grip though.
    Which spring setting are you using?

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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirato View Post
    Congratulation on your new Setup. I got my BRD-DS about 1 and a half year ago,it is a great Stick. I've read that the newer sticks can be used with Warthog or the new Virpil grip. I'm already thinking about one of those new bases,beeing able to switch grips easily is a big plus. I really like the KG13 grip though.
    Which spring setting are you using?
    Thanks
    Not sure about the springs. The stick ships with little (read none) documentation. I would guess they are at least 40#.
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Thanks. There are two notches on each CAM arm to hook up the spring. There can be three settings, mine came installed with the middle setting. Means the spring is hooked with one end to the outer notch and one to the inner notch. I'd like to try the strongest setting, but seems a bit difficult to change the spring to both outer positions. Maybe I just lack proper tools and technics.^^

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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    This is great feedback!

    A few years ago my Warthog joystick base went for a burton (RAF banter, don’tcha know), so I’ve since been alternating between my backup Sidewinder 2 FFB and TM16000 sticks — both excellent sticks in their own right. I was never happy with the feel of the Warthog joystick itself, so with it being well out of warranty I wasn’t willing to spend the expected cash to get it fixed/replaced. Regrettably, that has left me with a perfectly good Warthog grip as a very expensive paperweight.

    Skud, your thread has opened a new avenue to explore down the line. The two backup sticks are fine for now, but I do miss the extra buttons & switches on the Warthog grip. Maybe I will treat myself to BDS base + Warthog adaptor someday!

    Thanks for sharing this.


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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    What does it cost? I've been unable to price this item on the internet.

    Thrustmaster T.A.R.G.E.T. software has worked very well for me for years and years in Windows 7x64 and Windows 10x64. The simple TARGET GUI is limited but provides a great deal of simple utility to most "Non-Programming" users. TARGET Script Editor has no equal for adapting the WARTHOG to almost any application. It even provides rudder, elevator and AILERON trim outside of the game's, (ANY GAME's) control programming. I've yet to find any other commercial software that can do that!

    Thrustmaster has been around for about seventeen years and considering the depth of their product line and administrative support from the French "Mother" company, Guillemot, will support a high-end controller purchase for years to come.

    Technical Documentation is extensive and well written, but it will not read itself to you. Target Script Editor is not "Mindlessly" simple, and does requires some study and practice to master it. But, if I can learn it, ANYONE can!
    Last edited by Baffin; Oct-17-2017 at 15:41. Reason: Operating systems
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    Maybe I will treat myself to BDS base + Warthog adaptor someday!
    The new BRD-DS, BRD-N and VirPIL(VPC) T50 bases is compatible with Warthog/Cougar grips "bolt-and-play".

    VKB bases - Gladiator PRO and Gunfighter is that require electronic and mechanical adapter.

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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    @ATAG_SKUD.....Have´nt you no fear to relocation in another town ? <---- no, JOKE

    ....Great work and a many time, i think. I wish you all my best for your Hardware and NO Cats in the house...


    Except those on 2 legs....


    GREAT WORK.....I love it


    regards

    Wolfskid

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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    This is great feedback!

    A few years ago my Warthog joystick base went for a burton (RAF banter, don’tcha know), so I’ve since been alternating between my backup Sidewinder 2 FFB and TM16000 sticks — both excellent sticks in their own right. I was never happy with the feel of the Warthog joystick itself, so with it being well out of warranty I wasn’t willing to spend the expected cash to get it fixed/replaced. Regrettably, that has left me with a perfectly good Warthog grip as a very expensive paperweight.

    Skud, your thread has opened a new avenue to explore down the line. The two backup sticks are fine for now, but I do miss the extra buttons & switches on the Warthog grip. Maybe I will treat myself to BDS base + Warthog adaptor someday!

    Thanks for sharing this.
    Hi Snapper et al,
    You can order the base with Warthog adapter alone no need to order the KG13A. I love the KG13A because I am into realism and this is a lot like the real thing. I just move some functions to other devices. I have lots of spare buttons elsewhere.
    You can communicate with BAUR here: order@brd-avia.ru.
    I don't want to quote prices because I don't know if they ave changed. Best to ask him.
    I guess the springs were in the default position and feel about right so I'll leave them there.
    As far as TARGET goes, I used it all the time when I was running Win 7 so its not a matter of not knowing how to use it. I get a message in Win 10 that says it can't start the executable. I have uninstalled it, downloaded latest version from TM website and reinstalled. No joy. I'm not going through a Win 10 reinstall for it. The Windows cal is fine.
    Oh Snapper...remember to get the 75 mm extension. You'll need it There are few places you can pick these up and probably BAUR makes and sells them.

    Skud
    Last edited by ATAG_SKUD; Oct-17-2017 at 08:24. Reason: forgot one thing
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfskid View Post
    @ATAG_SKUD.....Have´nt you no fear to relocation in another town ? <---- no, JOKE

    ....Great work and a many time, i think. I wish you all my best for your Hardware and NO Cats in the house...


    Except those on 2 legs....


    GREAT WORK.....I love it


    regards

    Wolfskid

    I was here in the late 80s and 90s when Clinton was threatening strikes. Had A10s and F16s making runs everyday on the plant we were building. Its a creepy feeling up on the roof watching an A10 line you up- looking straight down the barrel of that GAU8/A
    Anyway I hope cooler heads prevail!

    Skud
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    ...not asking for a current price quote, just how much you paid for this product yourself. No one's asking for a commitment.

    Target works perfectly fine in Windows 10x64. As we all know, sometimes programs do interfere with each other, but I run 5 extra programs with CLoD as well as the TSNotifier overlay and have no TARGET problems.
    Last edited by Baffin; Oct-17-2017 at 15:51.
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Baffin View Post
    ...not asking for a current price quote, just how much you paid for this product yourself. No one's asking for a commitment.

    Target works perfectly fine in Windows 10x64. As we all know, sometimes programs do interfere with each other, but I run 5 extra programs with CLoD as well as the TSNotifier overlay and have no TARGET problems.
    The price when I purchased it was 27,250 rubles including base, KG13A, assembly and shipping.
    Last edited by ATAG_SKUD; Oct-18-2017 at 05:28. Reason: update
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_SKUD View Post
    These are my first impressions of the BRD-DS against my other sticks the VKB Gunfighter and the TM Warthog. These are just my opinions. Your mileage may vary...

    I put in my order for this back in the Feb or March and because my Warthog was annoying me with its "notch" effect and because Baur was having some production delays I picked up a VKB Gunfighter a couple of months ago. So here is my general take on all three...
    Precision and solid feel - The BRD-DS hands down the best for smooth slop-free motion. It has beautiful progressive load from the perfectly scaled cams. The Gunfighter is good but still seems to have very subtle transition points and wants to favor the side that doesn't have the spring. The Warthog had big transition points and seemed to want to track along a dog-leg course when trying to balance pitch and roll.
    The build quality of the BRD-DS is the best of the three. It just reeks quality and ruggedness. Nothing cheap here, it feels like a $1500 piece of FAA certified gear. The KG13A grip is a precision work of art. The Gunfighter I have to admit made me feel like I might break it. The Warthog lasted me 7 years without any failures, what else can be said.
    The BRD has just four map-able buttons, I had to move some more functions to the thottle. It cals in Windows but I understand you can use the TM TARGET software with it as the PC board is made to work with the Warthog. I can't get TARGET to load in WIN 10 so I never tried it. The Windows cal works fine. The VKB software is the best with a vast array of tools I'll never need. It has 12 buttons with the bomb release button doubling as a hat switch. TARGET never worked so I'll pass on that assessment.
    Dealing with Baur was great, he always let me know what was going on with the order. His English is a lot better than my Russian and by keeping things simple and a with little help from Google Translate comms were no issue at all. I paid him through Paypal and he shipped Russia Post to South Korea with no issues whatsoever. It got here in a week while Korea was in the midst of major Thanksgiving holidays.
    The DS is the baby brother to the N. It fits my Obutto just about perfectly- maybe an inch higher than the VKB but it is not noticeable. The throw is longer and the spring load is substantially heavier than the 30 pounders I had on the VKB. The stick forces seems better harmonized than the VKB with my MFG rudders buts sometimes I'm tempted to grab it with both hands in a hard pull up. Its probable this could be remedied with the 50 # springs in the VKB but the shorter throw range may make that a too much of a struggle. Its very comfortable and I don't get any fatigue in hour-long flights.
    Bottom line this is the best fighting stick I have has since I stopped using the MS Sidewinder many years ago. BAUR packed it with spare cams, springs and buttons, so I think this is going to be my go-to stick for a long time. You can tell BAUR is a perfectionist and a lot of thought went into this piece of equipment.

    Skud
    BRD pic2.jpgBRD pic3.jpgBRD pic5.jpg
    Superb write up.


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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_SKUD View Post
    The price when I purchased it was 27,250 rubles including base, KG13A, assembly and shipping.
    Thank you! Without a price, it's hard to estimate value. That's about $475 US today for a stick only. That makes it a rather elite piece of hardware. I appreciate the reply.
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Baffin View Post
    Thank you! Without a price, it's hard to estimate value. That's about $475 US today for a stick only. That makes it a rather elite piece of hardware. I appreciate the reply.
    3600 rubles of that was shipping so net is a tad over $400. A bit higher than the VKB but I think that is more than made up in quality.
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_SKUD View Post
    3600 rubles of that was shipping so net is a tad over $400. A bit higher than the VKB but I think that is more than made up in quality.
    Ironically enough, when I emailed Baur a week or so ago to ask him about ordering the BRD-DS he told me to order the VPC MT-50. In his words:

    The main difference is that BRD-DS is cheaper. In the rest MT-50 is better.
    Prior to that I was all set to order a BRD-DS from him...

    Do you have any experience with the MT-50?

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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Baffin View Post
    TThat's about $475 US today for a stick only. That makes it a rather elite piece of hardware.
    This price is on pair with this new "Next Generation" (gimbal w/bearings, steel, high grade aluminum... - or metal where's really matter) of controllers with limited production (BRD, GVL224, MFG, Slaw, VKB, VPC).

    VKB Gunfighter "Vintage Edition" w/ KG-12A grip (+29 cm extension) = $ 359.00 (without shipping).

    VPC MongoosT50 + extension kit = $412.00 (without shipping)

    BRD (and Cheeb2006) KG-13B grips are more replica than VKB GK12-A joystick grip, are manually cast/assembled, standalone they cost around ~$200.00 (almost a standalone Warthog).
    Last edited by 1lokos; Oct-19-2017 at 11:21.

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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    I'll close out my comments with a VALUE recommendation for the Thrustmaster Warthog. This is Stick AND Throttle for $400 (Free Shipping) in the USA. The Joysticks in this thread are certainly wonderful things, but financial resources must be considered. This has been a great discussion!

    http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/acces...04079732638202
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    The point of OP is not VALUE but PERFORMANCE of the "Next Generation" of controllers, something that he don't find in Thrustmaster.

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    ATAG Member ATAG_SKUD's Avatar
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
    Ironically enough, when I emailed Baur a week or so ago to ask him about ordering the BRD-DS he told me to order the VPC MT-50. In his words:



    Prior to that I was all set to order a BRD-DS from him...

    Do you have any experience with the MT-50?
    No, other than what I see on their website. I can't figure that out unless Google translate mangled the intent. The MT50 is cheaper by a good bit.
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Baffin View Post
    I'll close out my comments with a VALUE recommendation for the Thrustmaster Warthog. This is Stick AND Throttle for $400 (Free Shipping) in the USA. The Joysticks in this thread are certainly wonderful things, but financial resources must be considered. This has been a great discussion!

    http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/acces...04079732638202
    Hi Baffin,
    No argument there. I loved my Warthog and it is a marvel of value. But when it comes down to which one puts more rounds into the target the BRD wins. imho

    Skud
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    I'm in the middle of VKB Gunfighter MCG Pro and BRD-DS with MT-50 Grip right now.

    As for the spec, I think both BRD-DS and VKB GF PRO are Identical in terms of a range of motion. they are +-20 degrees per each axis

    Could you tell me how BRD-DS feels against VKB GF Pro in detail, please?

    I've been using BRD-D and I think BRD-DS feels about the same as D but somehow I'm gravitating towards VKB GF Pro..

    Can't make my decision yet...

    Much appreciated to your review!

    P.S I'm living in South Korea as well and If you are considering of selling your GF stick maybe I'd love to get ))

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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
    Ironically enough, when I emailed Baur a week or so ago to ask him about ordering the BRD-DS he told me to order the VPC MT-50. In his words:



    Prior to that I was all set to order a BRD-DS from him...

    Do you have any experience with the MT-50?
    Did Baur say to you that purchase MT-50 grip + VPC Gimbals instead of BRD-DS?

  29. #24
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace View Post
    I'm in the middle of VKB Gunfighter MCG Pro and BRD-DS with MT-50 Grip right now.

    As for the spec, I think both BRD-DS and VKB GF PRO are Identical in terms of a range of motion. they are +-20 degrees per each axis

    Could you tell me how BRD-DS feels against VKB GF Pro in detail, please?

    I've been using BRD-D and I think BRD-DS feels about the same as D but somehow I'm gravitating towards VKB GF Pro..

    Can't make my decision yet...

    Much appreciated to your review!

    P.S I'm living in South Korea as well and If you are considering of selling your GF stick maybe I'd love to get ))
    Pretty much said it all earlier...They are both good sticks, the BRD-DS is well balanced between the axes and doesn't favor the spring side. It is very smooth and precise. It also feels more substantial and rugged. I prefer it over the GF. I'm hanging on to the GF for now. If anything happens to my BRD its my backup stick. I am not familiar with the BRD-D , I thought the BRD-N was the other stick he makes and it looks like a beast.
    Do you have a pic of it?

    Skud
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Could you please rephrase "favor the side that want to have spring" with plain english for me? I'm native Korean and it's kinda hard for me to understand. BRD D is a desktop version of glmbal. https://www.google.co.kr/search?q=br...HlhxwGiRXVYaM:

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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    BRD-D - Desktop gimbal, not suitable for use extension.

    http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=5634

    BRD-DS - Chair level gimbal, suitable for up to ~15/20cm extension.

    http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=8874

    DRD-N - Floor level gimbal, in big base and with more longer extension.

    https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/upload...1431696512.jpg

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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace View Post
    Could you please rephrase "favor the side that want to have spring" with plain english for me? I'm native Korean and it's kinda hard for me to understand. BRD D is a desktop version of glmbal. https://www.google.co.kr/search?q=br...HlhxwGiRXVYaM:
    The stick leans to one side when at rest and seems to have a lighter pull on that side too

    sorry I don't have a Korean keyboard or I would try to say it in Korean, not that I am fluent but reasonably functional

    Skud
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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_SKUD View Post
    The stick leans to one side when at rest and seems to have a lighter pull on that side too

    sorry I don't have a Korean keyboard or I would try to say it in Korean, not that I am fluent but reasonably functional

    Skud
    I don't have that with mine at all.

    Running #20 springs and #20 cams which to mee seems like the best setup. Dampers wound out to completely disengaged.

    (I don't really think the dampers are very useful. Its a good idea in principle... but... they mess with centreing far more than is helpful)


    What is obvious though is that if you have an extention and a heavy grip (Warthog one on mine) then you have to make sure the base is level or it will lean.

    The Baur looks like a great option by the way !

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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    thanks for your answers! Could you tell me what is slop-free if you don't mind?

    and do you think tilting to one side when at rest is because of the weight of your warthog grip? or it tilts with it's 109 grip as well?

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    Re: BAUR BRD-DS-First Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace View Post
    thanks for your answers! Could you tell me what is slop-free if you don't mind?

    and do you think tilting to one side when at rest is because of the weight of your warthog grip? or it tilts with it's 109 grip as well?
    Slop free means there is no loose movement in the stick where the stick can move a little but there is no equal movement of the axis. Usually due to poor fitting tolerances in the gimbals. The tilt is not a big deal, it is very minor. I use the KG12A grip not the warthog on the GF. It's a very good stick I just like the BRD-DS better because it has a very good balanced and perfectly coordinated pull in any direction. The Gunfighter a little bit and much more the Warthog like to track along one axis at a time.They resist tracking smoothly at at 45 degrees between X and Y.


    Skud
    i-9 11900KF@ 5.1 GHZ CPU Watercooled, 32GB Corsair vengeance@4133Mhz, ASUS ROG Maximus XIII Hero (WiFi 6E) Z590 , MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3080Ti, 2 x 1Tb Samsung NVMe 980 Pro, 43" Gigabyte Aorus FV43U QLED 4K monitor, GVL 224 Ju 88 Big Throttle, BAUR BRD-DS with KG-13A control column, MFG Crosswind Rudders, GVL224 Ju88 Trim Wheel Box, GVL224 Ju 88 Switch Panel, Blackhog SB-2, SB AE-9, Audeze LCD-GX headset, TrackIR5, Buttkicker Simkit + Buttkicker Gamer2, 2 x DSD Flight Panel 2s

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