That's not a Buchon at 0.27...is it?
That's not a Buchon at 0.27...is it?
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That might be an RC model of a 109E at 0:27 in the second video - I remember hearing somewhere that the Heinkel in this was an RC scale model so the producers might have decided to put in a 'real' 109 to escort it.
It certainly doesn't look like a Buchon though.
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I'm absolutely stunned that anyone thought this movie had any merit at all.
Thanks Lew, I shall see the film irrespective of what the critics say. Some parts of those vids could be Clod......
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I wonder if the film makers were aware of CLOD before they filmed the air combat...Some of the shots behind the reticule look familiar to CLOD...
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Hey, I wouldn't bash it too much. It had a whole lot more merit than the typical "Based on the true story" non-historical garbage like Pearl Harbor (2001). Honestly, even with a basic understanding of real history, I cannot force myself to watch anything other than the few movies where the producers at least attempted to get the facts right. Dunkirk is the only modern movie I have ever watched that portrays a historical event in a completely believable way. Just the fact that they left out extraneous "love" scenes and unrelated fillers (which are apparently obligatory in American movies these days) means this is a movie I'd watch again. I didn't see any inaccuracies major enough to write off this film considering the how much they got right. They set out to portray Dunkirk, and they did just that, albeit perhaps with some minor inaccuracies. You can't deny that there are some spectacular scenes in this movie, and they managed to do it without major CGI. +1 rep in my book.
Just remember that He-111 dorsal gun did not sound like a 20mm cannon. I will forgive them for this error though.
Last edited by Kestrel; Jan-05-2018 at 16:51.
Kestrel
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That seems a strange reaction to me...I'm nearly 'stunned' by that statement...but not quite...hehe
You should probably see 'Pearl Harbor'...and 'Red tails'...There's no comparison to this really...This film is almost documentary like in its filming...They tried very hard to minimalise the CGI which I liked and forgive it for the use of the dressed up Yak-52 they employed to get the shots they needed...
Also it made a stack of money...so it was way profitable for the makers which we need if we want more...Not bad for a movie with no love element (You know the girlies like to go watch movies like that cuddling with their fellas (YUK!) and that's 50% of the population right there you've lost...right?)
12th Biggest grossing movie of 2017 (depending which poll you check)...Would seem all the boys came out to pay to see it...
Budget - $100 million
Box office - $525.6 million
So hopefully we see more in the future...
I think you are in the minority HerrB...Thankfully
...Lew...
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Dunkirk wasn't perfect.
No, the air to air scenes weren't perfect... any one who has flown CoD understands the reality combat maneuver is much more violent.
And of course, the Nanching standin for cockpits scenes wasn't optimum.
But I liked the film and the way it went for the understated reality rather than CGI enhanced nonsense.
Worth seeing again.
Did anyone notice the cameo?
I didn't until I read about it after I'd seen the film...Now its obvious
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One thing I liked about the two dogfight scenes that closely approaches the Clod online experience is the unseen 109 wingman scoring devastating hits on the unwary Spit pilots.
Two questions:
1) During the aerial scenes, did anyone find themselves cocking their heads to each side trying to bring your TrackIR to check 6? LOL
2) Did you find that the aerial gunnery lacked enough lead on the 109's? Did anyone make a scene in the theatre shouting "Shoot NOW, you pokey sluggard!!!" ???
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1) Yes...lol..
2) Yes
Although to be fair he may have been an unexperienced pilot...if not a little old for the BOB(Tom hardy - 39 or thereabouts when he made this)...Thing is I got a couple thousand hours in CLOD and still can't get the deflection right half the time...haha
I liked how the dogfight was graceful and slow...The director didn't succumb to the pressure of making the dogfight any more dramatic with non-realistic physics as they do in some recent air combat films...I liked that...It was dramatic enough even with the non-drama comms too...
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I watched this for the first time yesterday and I have to be honest, I was truly underwhelmed by the entire film. I have to say I came away from it wishing I hadn't bothered
Spoliers
Not once did I get a sense of scale of the troops waiting on the beach. Where were the constant attacks on the men basically came down to a few Stuka attacks. No feeling of absolute despair at their situation, the Navy Officer standing on the Mole....shouted a few orders , watched as boats sunk, dealt with it all matter of factly, never seemed to be pissed off or angry. The continuous bad luck of the main characters going from ship to sinking ship. The rescue from the sinking boat as our main character opened the door. There was no sense of scale, the masses of trucks, armour and artillery abandoned on the beaches. Actually Scale was the issue. There really was no sense of scale. A few smoke pots burning in the background, where was the artillery bombardment from the Germans, where was the armada of small boats? I just felt this was such an over dramatic set of clips that never added up to the sum of their parts.
The of-course we have the Spitfire sequence
Never in the field of aerial combat has so many bullets been fired without reloading from one Spitfire, for me though that wasn't the worst bit.
Engine out of fuel, glides at speed the length of the beach, turns back shoots down a Stuka, glides back again (in overcast weather), touches down at sunset...wheels down!!! on the beach. Reckon that was around 2-hours of gliding?
For me this was nothing like I was expecting from the reviews and a complete let down with no sense of tension, scale or jeopardy.
Sadly I left feeling like I had wasted my time watching it.
Disappointed, MP
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I think that half of the film budget of Dunkirk was spent on Brylcreem.
Sadly I have to agree.
Right from the opening sequence where the group of 'Tommies' were walking down a street it set the tone. Pristine street, no debris, no abandoned vehicles or equipment, no corpses human or animal and the houses all nicely painted for the role! Three French soldiers behind a wall of sandbags.
Too much PC even from the opening titles and all the way through the film the only reference made was to the 'enemy' no other term was used?
Even when Tom Hardys character is captured on the beach at the end the 'enemy' are indistinct blurs in the background.
The emphasis on not using CGI is to be applauded but it felt that it was filmed by a re-enactment group over a weekend.
If because of certain restraints financial, political or whatever, justice cannot be done to such an historical event then why bother?
To be honest it could not be done much better than the 1958 film starring John Mills. Have a watch of that and compare.
My opinion.
o7
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I also heard that another reason the aerial combat scenes were not as “violent” as it would have been in reality is that the producers and aircraft owners did not want the aircraft to endure through extreme (albeit realistic) combat maneuvers as they wanted to reduce the risk of accidents (liability, crew/actor injury/death, loss of historical aircraft, etc.). I’m sure many of you already knew this.
This makes me wonder if it would have been feasible for the producers to contract with groups like this or this to create 100% scale Spitfire / Bf 109 replicas to use in the movie. I realize that this only eliminates the risk of losing historical aircraft and that liability would still be an issue. But if there are stunt actors who do much crazier things in front of a camera, I would think there would be dare-devil pilots who would gladly perform realistic air combat maneuvers (for the right price and pages and pages of waivers signed!).
And take your pick - would you prefer to see real, historical Spitfires flying daintily or a replica doing realistic combat maneuvers? I guess either way, an aspect of realism would be lost. So even if all of this were possible, I guess there is good reason to believe that the producers would have made the same choice (real historical Spitfires flying daintily).
I guess my point is... I wonder how much it would cost me to get one of these replicas!
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Personally I think CG should have been used. Not "Redtails" George Lucas combat but there was so much room for CG to be used here to make the scenario authentic I honestly don't understand the decision not to.
Here is one of the best WW2 VFX breakdowns for the film Stalingrad. Virtually all of it seemlessly and would have made Dunkirk epic, instead, as said above, it lacked impact, scale and gravitas.
"The needs of the Flight Sim Community outweigh the needs of the one or the few"
I agree...I think a bit more 'Shaving Ryans Privates' gore...I think that was the name of the Tom Hanks film?...and maybe a CGI shot of all the beach with the thousands of troops and shipping wouldn't have gone a miss...
But still a worthy attempt at a WW2 drama...
Just DL'd the 1958 Dunkirk to watch again...
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.'' - Bertrand Russell1.618 - You know this number?My Turing machine :CPU: Intel Core i7 2700K 3.50GHz Sandybridge, Motherboard: Asus Maximus IV Extreme -Z Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) PCI-Express DDR3,
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ATAG_Lewis Youtube Channel
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.'' - Bertrand Russell1.618 - You know this number?My Turing machine :CPU: Intel Core i7 2700K 3.50GHz Sandybridge, Motherboard: Asus Maximus IV Extreme -Z Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) PCI-Express DDR3,
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ATAG_Lewis Youtube Channel
Michael Caine as the voice of the ground controller!
I do have to agree with MP that there was really not enough scale - not enough abandoned trucks on the beach, not enough men, not enough anything, really. However I still think it was a good film overall. I was more excited watching it than when I watched the 1958 movie "Dunkirk" which is a totally different film altogether in style and subject.
Currently reading "Dunkirk: Retreat to Victory" by Julian Thompson, and it's quite a good historical account of the whole Battle of France and evacuation. If you want "the real story" it's a good read. Very detailed though. There's not a page that doesn't say "42nd Division" or "5th/7th Battalion" or "Army Group B" or something like that.
Flare, i do believe that 'fortis 1' is the michael caine. when i first saw it i thought that he was some ground controller. but after seeing the scenes again. He is suppose to be the lead plane of the three.
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