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Thread: Flying Through Trees

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    Supporting Member MightyBouff's Avatar
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    Flying Through Trees

    Was on the map where the Germans are sending 20 ships to Dover. Around 80 players on the server. Saw a 110 and a 109 both fly through trees without taking damage around Canterbury airfield, one by the north end just to the left of the hangar. He came through the trees on the edge of the airfield and ploughed straight into me (I was warming up) but had no damage (all his wings etc) at the point of impact. Didn't take a plane up and try it myself, but def seemed odd!
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyBouff View Post
    Was on the map where the Germans are sending 20 ships to Dover. Around 80 players on the server. Saw a 110 and a 109 both fly through trees without taking damage around Canterbury airfield, one by the north end just to the left of the hangar. He came through the trees on the edge of the airfield and ploughed straight into me (I was warming up) but had no damage (all his wings etc) at the point of impact. Didn't take a plane up and try it myself, but def seemed odd!
    An aircraft has to hit the main trunk to take damage.

    If it hits foliage or smaller branches, nothing happens.

    This is in line with the real effects of trees on aircaft... we can only go into so much detail, with 10's of millions of trees, but there are many instances of aircraft flying through tree branches without a crash resulting.

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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Also, it could have been a lag/warping thing.

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    Supporting Member MightyBouff's Avatar
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    An aircraft has to hit the main trunk to take damage.

    If it hits foliage or smaller branches, nothing happens.

    This is in line with the real effects of trees on aircaft... we can only go into so much detail, with 10's of millions of trees, but there are many instances of aircraft flying through tree branches without a crash resulting.
    Thanks, I couldn't see if he missed the trunk, I'll look out for that in the future and report back.

    @Coll, no warping that I saw, it was a smooth passage through them but I couldn't rule it out I suppose!
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Some people tested that if you have a very low setting on trees (so you see fewer trees) you can't be destroyed by trees that you don't see (even if a server has full trees on its settings).
    Maybe was something about that.
    It's all a bit confusing about trees.

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    Supporting Member MightyBouff's Avatar
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Some people tested that if you have a very low setting on trees (so you see fewer trees) you can't be destroyed by trees that you don't see (even if a server has full trees on its settings).
    Maybe was something about that.
    It's all a bit confusing about trees.
    I guess that could be it. Shame it is client side detection then!
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    ATAG_Colander's Avatar
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Some people tested that if you have a very low setting on trees (so you see fewer trees) you can't be destroyed by trees that you don't see (even if a server has full trees on its settings).
    I'll have to double check if that is indeed happening.
    The idea was the opposite. If you choose not see them, they would still be there to collide with.

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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    An aircraft has to hit the main trunk to take damage.
    If it hits foliage or smaller branches, nothing happens.
    What is a good thing, in other flight games just touch tree leaf make plane goes kaput.

    As I remember in World War Two Online (Battleground Europe)- using Speedtree too are the same, the trunk damage planes, foliage no.
    Last edited by 1lokos; Jan-09-2018 at 12:46.

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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander View Post
    I'll have to double check if that is indeed happening.
    The idea was the opposite. If you choose not see them, they would still be there to collide with.
    from other forum

    Run tests with JohonDoe on trees collisions, and:

    First JohonDoe hosted with his forrest set at Very High (max).

    I changed my to lowest possible, Very Low and joined his server.

    I could see very low amount of trees he could see veary high amount, we both took Tiger Moth A2 and he folowed me.

    I few towards tree lines and pick to fly trough places i don't se trees, and flew trough them with no problem, but JohonDoe could see trees there as he uses very high and he could see me flying strait through trees and i was OK.

    Second I hosted and I had Very High Rip had Very Low and I was seeing him passing trough trees I could see and he could not.

    So it seams only lowest option for trees is colidable, and no point in having other options, as youll still se players with lowest options passing trought trees they dont see but you see, so not all trees seams to be collidable.
    Last edited by 1lokos; Jan-09-2018 at 12:45.

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    Supporting Member MightyBouff's Avatar
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    from other forum
    Guess I'll set my trees to low for now then!
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    I'm keeping mine on.

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    Supporting Member MightyBouff's Avatar
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Highseas View Post
    I'm keeping mine on.
    Not so much that I can fly through them, I'm not into getting an advantage like that, but more so that I can correctly chase people who are looking to use it themselves!

    As an aside it would be great if in the message saying somebody has crashed it could reference if it was into a tree!
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    It seems TF did not fix the isssue in the end...
    What a shame.
    Especially when you consider it was shown in the trailer.
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by fury1ord View Post
    It seems TF did not fix the isssue in the end...
    What a shame.
    Especially when you consider it was shown in the trailer.
    it seems Colander is taking a look at it. Up to 4.5 no trees were collidable objects. now at least some are. As he stated, that wasn't the intention though. So its not like TFS are going "lalalalalala" to it.

    And its not like the trailer was deliberately misleading anyone. Tree collisions are there. Just needs some TLC.

    Its being looked at. Pretty sure it will be sorted.
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by BOO View Post
    Tree collisions are there.
    Trees and even bushes are deadly, as most of the participants of the last Highseas' Tour can confirm.

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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Playing single player I've noticed more AI be able to fly through trees than to be actually able to do it myself, every time I've gotten near trees or bushes they've ate my plane alive so far.

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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    AI don't crash into trees right now..not sure if that will change or not in the future.
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by fury1ord View Post
    It seems TF did not fix the isssue in the end...
    Let's begin with a little semantics:
    There was no issue. An issue means that it is there but not working properly. Tree collisions where simply not part of the game.
    Since they where not part of the game, what TFS did was not a fix but a completely new feature.


    Quote Originally Posted by fury1ord View Post
    Especially when you consider it was shown in the trailer.
    Now that we cleared that up, you need to look closer. Tree collisions are there. You simply can not fly through a forest now without expecting to hit a tree.

    Now, there is an "issue" currently which is the fact that apparently those who set the trees to a low value, do not crash with trees that are not shown. This was not the intention when the tree collisions where introduced by TFS.
    The intention was that you would still crash with all trees whether you saw them (max number of trees) or not (low number of trees).
    Why was that the intention? one would ask...
    Because not doing so would mean penalizing those with full trees while those with lower trees can fly through places others can't.

    So, to be clear, this last part is what TFS will look at. All trees should be collide-able by everyone no matter if they see them or not.

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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    This has been extensively documented on the Storm of War forum, including track recordings from multiple perspectives and set-ups.

    Set your trees to 'Low' and enjoy hugging the ground.

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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by Leifr View Post
    This has been extensively documented on the Storm of War forum, including track recordings from multiple perspectives and set-ups.

    Set your trees to 'Low' and enjoy hugging the ground.
    Why on SOW forum? Who read that?
    SoW team declared to migrate to DCS almost a year ago. They deleted and closed almost all Clod topics. And banned TFS members from their forum.
    They really think we read their forum regularly? I used to check only if my mates telling me that they trashtalking about CloD or TFS again.

    I don't think the SoW forum would be any reference basis here, sorry.

    If you want report any bug, please use:
    - 777 forum CloD section
    - This forum
    - Official TFS bugtracker page (best for bugreports, if they are really bugs - worth to talk about it on the forums first)

    Thanks.

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    Supporting Member DUI's Avatar
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander View Post
    Now, there is an "issue" currently which is the fact that apparently those who set the trees to a low value, do not crash with trees that are not shown. This was not the intention when the tree collisions where introduced by TFS.
    [...] Because not doing so would mean penalizing those with full trees while those with lower trees can fly through places others can't.
    So, to be clear, this last part is what TFS will look at. All trees should be collide-able by everyone no matter if they see them or not.
    I think the solution that you have implemented now - unintentionally or not - is the much, much better one. There might be people who think they are doing some sort of e-sport and who like to game the game. For them it probably is an option to set the trees to low, to try to get bigger contact pixels by reducing the in-game resolution to 720p and to do other weird things. Though, for the vast majority of multiplayer pilots the only reason to reduce the amount of displayed trees is performance due to hardware limitations. I cannot imagine that those "normal" players would intentionally decrease the beauty and great flying experience of a tree-filled landscape for other reasons. Making invisible trees collidable would be a punishment to them that does great harm to the playability.

    Some points to think of:
    1. Securely performing a crash landing is made impossible if you do not see all of the collidable objects.
    2. Low-level-flying (I mean really low) is made impossible if you do not see all of the collidable objects.
    3. All pilots who fly single player missions are punished for no reason at all.

    Seriously, if I have to choose between collidable trees that you cannot see (is there a more frustrating way to lose your virtual life?) and the old TF 4.3 trees that are not collidable at all I would definitely opt for the latter one. Personally, I also think that this whole "trees are not collidable"-topic was overrated in the past by some few people. In the 5 years of extensive online flying I may have had 5-10 occasions in which players more or less obviously tried to sneak away by flying through forests. Of those, maybe 1-2 really managed to get away in the end. Collidable trees add a lot to the whole feeling and realism but hardly do anything for competitive flying.

    It is the same with the neat and beautiful "extended clouds"-feature. As with trees set to maximum the vast majority of players cannot afford to have extended clouds activated, as beautiful as they are. Comparing it with your intented tree solution: Those players would also have to be punished by not being able to see contacts flying behind "invisible extended clouds"...

    So, please save your breath on this topic. Current TFS 4.5 trees are the way to go!


    @Tom: Better listen to SOW. Due to their unique campaign experiences those guys have a different perspective on the limitations but also "unique selling points" of Blitz. And after a phase of hectoliter of bad blood (coming from both sides) there are very reasonable discussions about Blitz now.

    I think there is a lot of people who vastly underestimate the positive contribution that SOW campaigns made on Cliffs in the past and might make again in the future. As great as current online flying is, to me there is nothing like the experiences I made during the SOW campaigns. No kidding, hearing from them to turn their back on Blitz indefinitely would come close to hearing from you guys to skip TF 5.0. For a squadron like JG4 it simply is a necessity to have a campaign like SOW on the long term!

    Would be great to see TFS making further steps towards SOW and to address some of their specific campaign builder-issues!
    Last edited by DUI; Jan-13-2018 at 08:09.

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    Manual Creation Group DerDa's Avatar
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    I couldn't agree more to each and every point about the trees.


    About the other topic I have no clue, no idea and no opinion.

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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    I couldn't agree more to each and every point about the trees.
    So, they are wrong but they are correct?

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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by DUI View Post
    @Tom: ... there are very reasonable discussions about Blitz now.
    Great.

    Still, SoW forum is not the place which could be any reference basis here.
    Official 777 forum and this ATAG board is intended to discuss about CloD and TFS related topics.
    Bugtracker is intended to collecting and follow bugs and their fixes.

    Thanks

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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander View Post
    So, they are wrong but they are correct?
    Nope.
    They were wrong, now they are correct, left and right

    I forgot to quote DUI, but thaught it was obvious that my post was a reaction to his, just above.
    Last edited by DerDa; Jan-14-2018 at 03:02.

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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by VO101_Tom View Post
    Why on SOW forum? Who read that?
    SoW team declared to migrate to DCS almost a year ago. They deleted and closed almost all Clod topics. And banned TFS members from their forum.
    They really think we read their forum regularly? I used to check only if my mates telling me that they trashtalking about CloD or TFS again.

    I don't think the SoW forum would be any reference basis here, sorry.

    If you want report any bug, please use:

    ...

    Myticpuma has been a consistent and active member of the SoW forum since 2014.
    As DUI mentioned, SoW captured the essence of that balmy 1940 summer almost perfectly and was a major time-sink for hundreds of players. The experience found there was vastly different to that of ATAG, an alternative perspective to deck-furballing should (have been) listened to.

    A bug was lodged four days ago.
    I understand that you have a lot to fix though, there's no pressure.
    Last edited by Leifr; Jan-13-2018 at 13:43.

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    Ace Cassius's Avatar
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    I agree with DUI regarding SoW.
    I do not know which cat ran between you, and why the guys from SoW are complaining about TFS. But I will say that it was the SoW Campaign that made most part members of our community meet and spend their long, long hours in CloD.
    I just kindly envy the users of that platform (BoХ or DСS), where these guys can realize their Wants. Of course, I still hope that it will still be CloD, but...
    Hope dies last.
    If about the trees...
    Personally, I do not care if they have a collision or not. And I certainly do not care about those who put this in the first place in the fault of CloD.

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    Supporting Member Baffin's Avatar
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    I think the trees work well as collision objects. Today, I pursued an enemy into the treetops and almost crashed recovering from arboreal contact! When I finally got things squared away, I had knocked my left aileron off in the trees. It could have been coincidental damage from the BF-110 I was chasing... but I don't think so.

    It felt very authentic!
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    Quote Originally Posted by Baffin View Post
    I think the trees work well as collision objects. Today, I pursued an enemy into the treetops and almost crashed recovering from arboreal contact! When I finally got things squared away, I had knocked my left aileron off in the trees. It could have been coincidental damage from the BF-110 I was chasing... but I don't think so.

    It felt very authentic!
    Yes this one large advantage CoD's system has over other games.

    Contact with trees does not result in instant destruction of the aircraft.

    You can take different levels of damage... lose just an outer wing or an aileron, lose just one tailplane, etc.

    Depends on what contacts the main tree trunk.

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    Supporting Member MightyBouff's Avatar
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    Re: Flying Through Trees

    I fully support a level playing field, which really has to be that all tress are collidable, even if you are set to low. Perhaps some placeholder for those on low, just a vertical trunk that is very cheap to render? Sadly, in any multiplayer game you will get those who look to exploit every single advantage, and this is such an easy one for them to do I think your approach is the correct one. Not sure how it works for builds at the moment if you have those levels set to high or low?
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