Determining identity of contacts on MP servers

[hoss_ster]

I have spent a bit of time now of the ATAG multiplayer server. I am still very green. I have a lot of trouble ID'ing aircraft to decide if the are friendly or not and whether to engage. I know that the cardinal rule is not to shoot at your own ... so i have been conservative on this?

On teamspeak, I notice that the experienced folks can ID planes MUCH more quickly / accurately than I can. I was wondering what the experienced folks' tips are for this? I would guess that time / experience is important. What else?

- Is there a source of silhouette cards I can study that cover the CLOD planes?

- What mag do people use when zooming in to ID?

- What are the most important clues? Silhouette? Behavior? Color? Other?

Anyways, I know that I need time / work / practice to improve. I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on how to best focus / use my time?

Thanks!

[ATAG_Highseas]

I have spent a bit of time now of the ATAG multiplayer server. I am still very green. I have a lot of trouble ID'ing aircraft to decide if the are friendly or not and whether to engage. I know that the cardinal rule is not to shoot at your own ... so i have been conservative on this?

On teamspeak, I notice that the experienced folks can ID planes MUCH more quickly / accurately than I can. I was wondering what the experienced folks' tips are for this? I would guess that time / experience is important. What else?

- Is there a source of silhouette cards I can study that cover the CLOD planes?

- What mag do people use when zooming in to ID?

- What are the most important clues? Silhouette? Behavior? Color? Other?

Anyways, I know that I need time / work / practice to improve. I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on how to best focus / use my time?

Thanks!

There is... https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...kFLdHozaVJJeVU

[ATAG_Highseas]

It's not easy... but it does come with time.

[ATAG_Highseas]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...TE1MFZBMmZnTEk

this set as well.

these are by others who have previously posted their work on these pages before. The clever and helpful chaps that they are !

[ATAG_Highseas]

G50 and the Hurricane are the easeist fighters to confuse !!

Study hard !!

[ATAG_Highseas]

and finally:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18f...lyt-j3t5PpUDRu


enjoy !

[Vlerkies]

If you fly for the mighty Luftwaffe see my sig, if you are a Luftwaffe G50 pilot, sorry s##t happens

[katschmarek]

On teamspeak, I notice that the experienced folks can ID planes MUCH more quickly / accurately than I can. I was wondering what the experienced folks' tips are for this? I would guess that time / experience is important. What else?
- What mag do people use when zooming in to ID?

It depends what side you're on. As Vlerkies said, if you're blue and if you're close enough to see their colors, then usually shoot at the brown ones. If your Red, look for the yellow nose/wing tip fighters. If you're further away, you'll have to go by silhouette/circumstances (i.e plane circling over a French field, with flak bursting all around is going to be British, and vice versa).

As for mag (or field of view) use maximum, if situation permits. Bind it to something you can easily access.

[ATAG_Highseas]

It depends what side you're on. As Vlerkies said, if you're blue and if you're close enough to see their colors, then usually shoot at the brown ones. If your Red, look for the yellow nose/wing tip fighters. If you're further away, you'll have to go by silhouette/circumstances (i.e plane circling over a French field, with flak bursting all around is going to be British, and vice versa).

As for mag (or field of view) use maximum, if situation permits. Bind it to something you can easily access.

Good call !

I didn't even think to mention yellow noses...

but do be careful... some sunlight condtions can make everything look yellow !! made that mistake before !

[katschmarek]

but do be careful... some sunlight condtions can make everything look yellow !! made that mistake before !

Well, funny story. I once picked a skin for my 109 which didn't have the yellow markings. I was intercepted twice over the channel by 109s, who had to get closer than usual to ID me.

Your success at ID'ing contacts will also depend on the quality of your graphics settings. I found that anti-aliasing can affect how silhouettes look.

As hoss_ster mentioned, you can also use the power of the group. More people will notice an aircraft earlier than a single, lone flier, and you can use their ID'ing skills to your benefit.

[ATAG_Highseas]

Well, funny story. I once picked a skin for my 109 which didn't have the yellow markings. I was intercepted twice over the channel by 109s, who had to get closer than usual to ID me.

Your success at ID'ing contacts will also depend on the quality of your graphics settings. I found that anti-aliasing can affect how silhouettes look.

As hoss_ster mentioned, you can also use the power of the group. More people will notice an aircraft earlier than a single, lone flier, and you can use their ID'ing skills to your benefit.

Definately !!

Everyone else spots... and then I try and get close... and watch as they shoot it down before i get there... haha !!

[Tumbler]

Very familiar problem! When I end up in a furball, I normally find myself chasing friendlies and soon after that to be shot down by a 109...

From a distance all planes look like a black spot to me and getting close seems difficult and dangerous. But as mentioned, flak can be of help. Another thing that helps me is the engine sound. The merlin has a very distinctive sound, if I hear something non-merlin approaching I try to roll and turn as fast as possible. But then again, if you hear it, they're normally about to blow some serious holes in essential airplane parts.

[Nightdare]

I always go fly in front of them, if they shoot at me, either it's an enemy, or somebody who knows me personally

[ATAG_Lewis]

Spits have pointed wings and from dead astern they have one radiator under one wing so are asymmetrical...They also have a strong dihedral
109s have square wings and from dead astern have a radiator under both wings...they also have a strong dihedral
Hurricanes have round wings and from dead astern have a radiator under the fuselage like a P51...They are also pretty flat wing with no dihedral...

It comes with practice...Most mistakes are made between the G50 and Hurri...

As far as not shooting friendlies don't let any vet tell you they never did it...We ALL did it in the early days and have done it in the past...We accept that new wings will still do it and it happens all the time on the server so do not be overly concerned about that...Remember a 'sorry' in chat or comms will go a long way...and the rule 'No Teamkilling' should really say 'No Teamkilling on purpose'...We do from time to time get the odd muppet that likes to take off and fly around home bases shooting friendlies...It happens...Those are the guys we want to 'strongly educate' if you see what I mean...and that's not you...lol...

Its great to see you discovered TS pretty quick...That's important for immediate help with stuff...Let me know if I'm on and I can talk you through stuff... ~S~

...Lew...

[EAF602_Red]

Another quick note, you have filed of view buttons set on joystick, when you zoom in at 30 degrees there is a zoom function + & - which will enable you to zoom in closer to ID the aircraft

[PreyStalker]

It's not just the new guys shooting friendlies....

I recently shot the hell out of KennedyOz when I mistook his JU 88 for a Beaufighter NF. I had no idea until the server message flashed it up.




In my defence, it was low at Marquise West, there was flak everywhere, and it was stuttering like hell. All in all FOG OF WAR !

Anyway, I said sorry and Kennedy took it in good spirit, that's the important thing.

It happens, as it did in real life, just don't make a habit of it....

[farley]

Spits have pointed wings and from dead astern they have one radiator under one wing so are asymmetrical...They also have a strong dihedral ...Lew...

Off topic here but - Lew, this made me wonder why planes have dihedral.
Below is a site that explains it:

http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-f...r-wings-level/

And of course good old Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihedral_(aeronautics)

[ATAG_Lewis]

There's always one...Roight?

[Moach]

If you're unsure what it is, it's probably ME, so thanks for not firing....


also: there are oodles of airplane recognition cards, charts and what have you, it was kind of a big deal during the real war, so they made sure to spread those around.

this is the google results for that: https://www.google.ca/search?q=battl...w=1523&bih=908

[Baffin]

I have spent a bit of time now of the ATAG multiplayer server. I am still very green. I have a lot of trouble ID'ing aircraft to decide if the are friendly or not and whether to engage. I know that the cardinal rule is not to shoot at your own ... so i have been conservative on this?

On teamspeak, I notice that the experienced folks can ID planes MUCH more quickly / accurately than I can. I was wondering what the experienced folks' tips are for this? I would guess that time / experience is important. What else?

- Is there a source of silhouette cards I can study that cover the CLOD planes?

- What mag do people use when zooming in to ID?

- What are the most important clues? Silhouette? Behavior? Color? Other?

Anyways, I know that I need time / work / practice to improve. I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on how to best focus / use my time?

Thanks!

I think you've already answered all your questions. Whether you practice with cards or fly around and simply observe at MAXIMUM zoom, experience is the best teacher. Six O'Clock position gives us all fits so consider lowering your nose to see more of his underside. This trades altitude for airspeed which you can recover somewhat. Moving UP or to the side will cost you energy you probably will have to live (or die) with.

There are no blue RAF planes, but the Hun does use green, brown and grey camo schemes. Roundels vs Crosses are the definitive I.D.!

[69th_Zeb]

Build airplane models of your frenemies! I have several on my desk at work.
Didn't help with my very stupid mistake Monday. Thankfully, the victim was new and didn't even notice my embarrassment to everyone else watching the ticker.

[ATAG_Lewis]

If you see the dogfight and someone is in trouble...ask them if the higher one (or lower) is them or the enemy...You can start by asking them that before you engage if they are still dots in the distance...They will probably be very keen and very quick to give you that information...hehe

[ATAG_Marlow]

I have spent a bit of time now of the ATAG multiplayer server. I am still very green. I have a lot of trouble ID'ing aircraft to decide if the are friendly or not and whether to engage. I know that the cardinal rule is not to shoot at your own ... so i have been conservative on this?

On teamspeak, I notice that the experienced folks can ID planes MUCH more quickly / accurately than I can. I was wondering what the experienced folks' tips are for this? I would guess that time / experience is important. What else?

- Is there a source of silhouette cards I can study that cover the CLOD planes?

- What mag do people use when zooming in to ID?

- What are the most important clues? Silhouette? Behavior? Color? Other?

Anyways, I know that I need time / work / practice to improve. I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on how to best focus / use my time?

Thanks!

Hi hoss_ster....great fun flying with you the other day. As has already been mentioned, I think the easiest a/c to confuse in 'Blitz' are the Hurri/G50 and the Beaufighter/Ju 88.....I just don't fire until I'm sure. Yesterday I chased a 110 (as I thought) way out east from Manston only to discover on TS that it was Drock in a Beau.' (Team Speak is brilliant and I can't understand the many pilots who fly without it.)

Another trick I've learnt from 'Our Lewis' is don't go rushing thoughtlessly into a furball. If there is a dogfight, feetwet just off Dover, I try to approach at a higher altitude to the fight. If I need to, I'll climb around the outside of the fight whilst observing. Before I then do anything, I check the 'high sky' for enemies with more altitude than me. Then, having checked the coast is clear, I watch down below (and my 6) until I can identify an enemy in a good position relative to me. Then I dive on him if I can. Control your speed as you go down. Once committed go for it but try and check six regularly because, sooner or later, as your speed bleeds off, somebody will have a go at you.

Sometimes, as you approach a furball, you can recognise the 109 as the a/c that is 'going vertical' out of the fight. Often, because I have altitude....once I've confirmed ID by max zooming in, (See Baffin) I can catch him at the top of his climb, whilst he's hanging on his prop and give him a right 'good pattling!' I think Lew' calls this: 'Creaming off the top!'

There's nowt as good as a right good pattling! If only I could deliver them more frequently! One rule defo works: the more you fly the more you learn! Happy landings! Salute!

P.s I've noticed that with lots of new pilots coming into CLoD, the incidence of 'shoulder shooting' has increased. Yesterday, I was more or less shoulder barged 'off the ball' by another Spitfire, eager to score hits. It was a mess........down right dangerous!

You will find that most experienced pilots in our server will support/cover another a/c as they chase an enemy...but they will not dive in to 'steal the kill.' If the first a/c breaks off, is damaged or loses contact then surely that is the time when a wing man should dive in to finish the enemy off...particularly if he is still aggressive.....that's the sort of team spirit we're trying to build here. Salute!

[Kip Chiakopf]

As far as not shooting friendlies don't let any vet tell you they never did it...We ALL did it in the early days and have done it in the past...We accept that new wings will still do it and it happens all the time on the server so do not be overly concerned about that...Remember a 'sorry' in chat or comms will go a long way...and the rule 'No Teamkilling' should really say 'No Teamkilling on purpose'...We do from time to time get the odd muppet that likes to take off and fly around home bases shooting friendlies...It happens...Those are the guys we want to 'strongly educate' if you see what I mean...and that's not you...lol...

Its great to see you discovered TS pretty quick...That's important for immediate help with stuff...Let me know if I'm on and I can talk you through stuff... ~S~

...Lew...

Yeah, A couple of months ago, i was flying a Hurricane and got involved in a furball. I jumped on the tail of what I thought was a 109 and fired a burst. The "enemy" plane turned and I could see I'd just shot at a Spitfire by its wingtips. I did apologize immediately on Team Speak for the friendly fire incident.

Since then, i've been shot down several times because i was hesitant to engage a "Friendly."

Live and learn.

[DRock]

Lots of good tips here.

Another good tip would be to position yourself in a good place when IDing. Higher, and with the sun behind you.

This will give you more time to ID, and it will give you a good view from above your contact allowing you to see the profile of the aircraft. Also, with the sun behind you, the silhouette effect from the light disappears and allows you to see colour better. Your contact will see you as a black object longer if you are in the sun.

You should know what aircraft is flying above you, and you should make sure it's friendly. If it isn't, you have put yourself in a very bad position.

~S~

[ATAG_Lewis]

If you are unsure at long distance...try keep the height advantage until you know for sure...TS is the key to a lot of ID'ing way before you can actually see what it is yourself...If you get in a furball and shoot a friendly you don't make it easier for yourself...You just knocked out someone who could help...

A usual tactic by 109s is to BnZ the target and furball...You will see from a distance an aircraft climbing and looping over to the fight...Try to time the enemy as he goes up...This will help especially when you see the square wingtips from above him...

Check High res CLOD vids too...You will see what folks see and will help with ID'ing...

As I say...Its no biggy if you do accidently hit a friendly...It does happen and is expected by the new wings until they find their mojo...and it happened in RL too...A 'sorry buddy' in chat goes a long way...Once you know its a rare occurrence for vets to make the mistake...

Most of the vets don't fire until they are real close...Firing from distance you are likely not to hit anything and is a waste of shells...Get in close and give them hell...Those double rads are a dead give away...

[Archwarder]

Another approach to aircraft identity is to think about where you are and what each side should be doing under normal circumstances in that area.

For example if you are over french point and generally pesting around in a Spitfire you can be reasonably certain that aircraft approaching from the north and high are friendly, with contacts approaching from the south co alt or lower being hostile.

Obviously this is not a golden rule but you will begin to learn the habits of the enemy team regardless of who you fly for.

Another example, If it is flying below wave top height, looks like a twin engine and is hauling ass to the french coast it is most likely a pesty Blenheim about to do some wounding. Like wise if the twin engine is flying much slower than the rest of the small aircraft around it, has holes in it, or is venting from both engines or is on fire with somebody on coms swearing profusely, then it is most likely a 110.

And if you never see it it was a spit or 109.

G50s which are rather rare, can be identified simply by how much abuse you receive on coms after shooting down a hurricane.