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Thread: Wonder No More: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

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    Novice Pilot Moach's Avatar
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    Wonder No More: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Not a complaint, just a question really...

    Since the release of TF4.5, it appears all ground crew personnel at our bases have been on strike. This is understood to be due to the <rr scripts not being up to code (reasons?) with the new game version, of course.

    Alas, this does have an impact on missions which is not merely trivial. This is true especially of the role played by the rear airfields, from which the more capable types can be spawned. The strategic choices concerning the use of those airfields is largely affected by the premise that each plane is good only for a 'single serving'.

    With <rr available, the rear airbases offered a whole new element of gameplay. Pilots flying such 'top gear' out of places far from the action had a full understanding of the need to preserve their rides, at risk of great inconvenience should damage be sustained.



    So I come to ask what I'm pretty sure many players have been wondering by now: What's the deal with <rr? Is there any estimation on how long the "crew strike" is gonna last? Just ballpark really. As in: is it gonna be a month, a year, a few minutes?

    And just out of technical curiosity (I am a programmer after all, so I think a lot about this kinda stuff), what is it that prevents it from working? Is the underlying system inoperable? (as would require TF to address) Or is it a simpler case of the mission scripts not having been compiled against the newer build? Something else entirely maybe? Perhaps Gremlins?




    Just looking to gain some insight on the situation at hand. But also use the opportunity to make it positively clear that this is indeed a feature which is currently longingly missed by us pilots, and would be greatly welcomed upon its return.


    Just asking, rly...

    Snapper edit: Team Fusion Simulations have restored RR and added some features! See bottom of this thread.
    Last edited by ATAG_Snapper; Oct-02-2019 at 06:41. Reason: Snapper added response to the OP
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    Supporting Member Creep's Avatar
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    I heard a rumor that there are changes coming soon to 4.5 that will affect mission servers. My guess would be that the mission builders are waiting for this to happen before revisiting rearm & refuel functionality.

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    Supporting Member Baffin's Avatar
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    I have a feeling that a lot of our deficiencies stem from the changeover from 32 bit processing to 64 bit. I'm no programmer, but isn't this a formidable obstacle for TFS coders?
    Last edited by Baffin; Jan-25-2018 at 10:55.
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    Novice Pilot Moach's Avatar
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by Baffin View Post
    I have a feeling that a lot of our deficiencies stem from the changeover from 32 bit processing to 64 bit. I'm no programmer, but isn't this a formidable obstacle for TFS coders?
    Not a formidable obstacle really... it's more of a nuisance and a general hassle.

    I'm a programmer by trade, though not a part of TFS for availability reasons. I often do C# for a living, and it is mostly agnostic to 32 or 64 bit conditions, running well enough in either case.
    The big issue is that things which are compiled for 32 bits don't necessarily work right away with things compiled for 64. And vice versa.

    What I most suspect to be the cause of the "ground crew strike" is that the scripts which do <rr were linked to the old version of the game and have not been rebuilt for the latest stuff.

    It would make sense to wait for any soon-to-come major updates as well in that case, since it could very easily require compiling again any time a new version is released.


    This is a symptom of a phenomenon generally known as "Dll Hell" - Which even though is largely one of the reasons why C# was invented in the first place, still continues to plague programmers all over the world.
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    Supporting Member PanTast's Avatar
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Maybe /rr is just not top priority for ...

    ...hmm who is responsible for /rr in the first place? ...

    ... its not purely TFS.

    I guess you are getting the point.


    John Lydgate: “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    To clarify, RR is not a feature of TFS 4.5 & won't be a feature of TFS 4.53. It is not provided by TFS. It is solely a feature provided by courtesy of ATAG on their server.

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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    I have a request for refuel/rearm.

    Pre 4.5 when <rr was active, the twin engine fighters would become overloaded with fuel since the minimum was 50% (<rr50). Also, it took about 7.5 minutes to load a Blenheim IVF with that amount.

    If possible, when RR is reimplemented, can <rr25 be added?

    This would be much appreciated.


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    Supporting Member PanTast's Avatar
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Sorry, DRock. The rr feature is quite low on the priority list. I would not expect any changes until the release of 5.0 was successful ...

    o7
    John Lydgate: “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_PanTast View Post
    Sorry, DRock. The rr feature is quite low on the priority list. I would not expect any changes until the release of 5.0 was successful ...

    o7
    That's ok, PanTast.

    Just wanted to put the idea out there.

    Thanks for your attention to an important priority lately. Security.


    Cheers

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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    The RR feature works in the TWC Tactical and Mission servers as do many other things such as progressive lines or taking out the enemies airbases or fuel or denying him the ability to progress in your direction. Enemy fighters and bombing raids take place every hour for both sides but you can take a bomber and make a difference on the map with over 400 individual targets you can make it happen.
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    The RR feature makes several of the maps a lot more playable than at the current state (Dynamo, most of all) - It is the only factor which offsets the inconveniently large distances involved, otherwise making this map and a few others with similar issues quite the server-emptiers.

    If RR is not to be expected until as far away as 5.0, then it can only be urged that maps like these get reworked, allowing things like air-spawns, (sigh) or at least offer the more advanced aircraft at all bases, near or far from the front. If not, we will continue to see comments like "will someone turn this map already?" and a similarly reasoned drop of numbers in server population whenever these come up.

    It is sad news that the importance of R+R is so lowly understood. This one feature promotes gameplay possibilities which are a large reason why CloD has the best multiplayer environment of any WW2 simulator today. It's implications are larger than the immediately obvious convenience it provides.
    It is RR that ties in the nearly perfect balance of aircraft capability options against distance from the action. Completing this emergent mechanic with an added sense of self-preservation when flying from the rear. All of which adds in subtle ways to a massively more enjoyable and less "disposable" flying experience. The convenience aspect is merely trivial compared to the gameplay ramifications it offers.

    Alas, this is not obvious. Having majored in game planning and design, I have seen first hand how the gaming industry as a whole has not yet fully understood this kind of phenomena and there is little to no literature about it, let alone scientific method. It is understandable that it would go misunderstood even to the most enlightened of server admins, just as many reputable game developers have also overlooked this very feature and several others of similar importance in much the same way.


    I can only hope that adding our voices in support of the community's desire for the non-obvious benefits provided by RR may have an effect in bringing it higher in the priority list. It is not uncommon to see players try it every time they join in the server for the first time in a day or two. RR is largely missed.
    Last edited by Moach; Feb-20-2018 at 08:55.
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Gotta love Moach - he just so damn eloquent when he makes his points!

    I did like the RR feature. Rarely got to use it like but still.......

    Oddly Dynamo was a map id happily fly back to England to RR - better that than some unskilled Banzai yee har on a one way mission take me out at Oly.

    Shame no-one shares code like this...
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Hear! Hear!
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    ATAG Member ATAG_DRock's Avatar
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moach View Post
    I can only hope that adding our voices in support of the community's desire for the non-obvious benefits provided by RR may have an effect in bringing it higher in the priority list. It is not uncommon to see players try it every time they join in the server for the first time in a day or two. RR is largely missed.
    I agree, Moach. However, if ATAG put it low on the priority list there must be a reason.

    Let's not 'rally the troops' to demand certain features. Patience is a virtue.

    R+R was not a CoD feature, it was coded into the ATAG server by Colander.

    The priority list should be considered before you decide where RR should be on that list. Getting the game running well for most people, and security of our skies. Troll free. Those are my priorities. The rest is gravy.


    We all miss RR, but it's more important to give the coders time if they ask for it. The human factor should be considered first.


    It's time this community enjoys what we have, otherwise I suggest you move on to something you enjoy more.


    ~S~

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    Novice Pilot Moach's Avatar
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Well, nobody's calling out a rally here... You misread my point. I just don't wanna see RR getting delayed more than necessary due to any possible misunderstanding on how important we perceive it as being. I dare not question what may be above it on the priority list, as I assume it must be highly essential stuff.

    I am well aware that it is not a CloD feature, which again validates just how easily overlooked such a thing can be, having been left out of the original game itself.


    But I would like to make it clear that without RR, from a purely player's perspective, the ATAG experience feels truly incomplete.
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Is it correct that <rr is working at TWC?
    As far as I understood is that it didn't work in ATAG server with the new patch.
    But if it is really working at TWC, would you provide the simple <rr withour repair as it usually was in AvA server to ATAG?
    I thought ATAG wouldn't deny to use it.

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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Moach raises a valid point about the RR feature- it is much loved in ATAG. A measure of that can be seen around the other servers over time where we see RR being types into chat time and again. So it does resonate with players.

    The name of Colander also appears and if there is one guy who deserves an all expenses paid holiday he is a prime candidate. So its only right people don't demand it - and I don't think that was Moach's intention at all.

    Providing players with some outlet to express their love for RR is also important HERE because this is where the feature's home is (in the manner most know it). A look in the BOS forums reveals some pretty adverse and well rehersed reactions to the notion over there that may lead some to think its not wanted anywhere. Those reaction also ignore much of Moach's argument which personally I think is spot on.

    If nothing else expressing love for a feature temporarily missing shows appreciation for the skills of the coder and perhaps helps to make us all realise there are things that just shouldn't be taken for granted. Especially important when, forums being forums, people are prone to bitch about all and everything at the drop of a hat and without a single consideration of person behind the work or the the time, effort and skill they have put into their education to produce something for the masses.

    so anyhow -

    RR was ace and I cant wait to see it come back some day when the time is right!
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    Novice Pilot JG4_Qetzalcoatl's Avatar
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    There is a RR-command on the TWC-Mission server. But as far as I know it isn´t working like on the ATAG-server. You simply get a new plane after typing <rr.

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    ATAG Member ATAG_DRock's Avatar
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moach View Post
    Well, nobody's calling out a rally here... You misread my point. I just don't wanna see RR getting delayed more than necessary due to any possible misunderstanding on how important we perceive it as being. I dare not question what may be above it on the priority list, as I assume it must be highly essential stuff.

    I am well aware that it is not a CloD feature, which again validates just how easily overlooked such a thing can be, having been left out of the original game itself.


    But I would like to make it clear that without RR, from a purely player's perspective, the ATAG experience feels truly incomplete.
    I read it just fine, Moach. You don't have the priority list to know where to put RR on it. Do you?

    Is your experience incomplete, or unplayable?

    Your requests should be on a 'wish list', not a 'let's discuss how fast coders should get on this'.


    I'm not calling you out, Moach. You have a good mind, but I just disagree with the tact I see here.

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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by BOO View Post
    RR was ace and I cant wait to see it come back some day when the time is right!
    Bingo!

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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by JG4_Qetzalcoatl View Post
    There is a RR-command on the TWC-Mission server. But as far as I know it isn´t working like on the ATAG-server. You simply get a new plane after typing <rr.
    If it enforced a timer on you to wait for that new plane (liek the time it takes for RR to work on ATAG) thats not a bad solution given you can only rr when not damaged. Though I'll miss the guy in the little truck who never looks at me.
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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyBouff View Post
    If it enforced a timer on you to wait for that new plane (liek the time it takes for RR to work on ATAG) thats not a bad solution given you can only rr when not damaged. Though I'll miss the guy in the little truck who never looks at me.
    I miss the guy in the truck as well,
    I also miss having people on the server the fly with/against....... sigh

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    Re: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Hi everyone,

    I am pleased to announce that Team Fusion Simulations have worked their magic and have provided Rearm and Refuel once again - with some extra features!

    1) You must land your aircraft at a friendly airfield and come to a full stop, switch off your engine (fuel off, magnetos off).

    2) Hit TAB, then 4

    3) You will find added menu items - Refuel (DRock - you'll be pleased to see that you can select increments of 10%!), Rearm (bullets only OR bullets and bombs - if your aircraft was previously loaded with bombs).

    4) Both rearming and refueling can be done at the same time; it will take roughly 2.5 minutes (a bit longer for heavy fuel loads). There is a countdown provided for both rearming and refueling at the top of your screen. (Perfect for determining if you have enough time for a quick nature break or dash for a ham sandwich and, ah, soda pop ).

    5) There is also a damage report available - but this is a work in progress and not 100% reliable. ie your engine may be lying on the ground and the damage report may say "Prop damage" LOL This is being worked on for each aircraft at present.

    6) This Rearm & Refuel feature is not exclusive to ATAG; this is a Team Fusion Simulations feature. Specific info here: https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...775#post339775

    7) At this time there is no fuel truck that magically appears beside your plane to refuel; however, now you can refuel/rearm even if your aircraft is lightly damaged.

    Snapper
    Last edited by ATAG_Snapper; Oct-02-2019 at 06:37.


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    Re: Wonder No More: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    And in case you are wondering..... R&R does not repair wounded pilots. Darn.

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    Re: Wonder No More: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Bill View Post
    And in case you are wondering..... R&R does not repair wounded pilots. Darn.
    We need “Apply a BandAid” added to TAB 4!


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    Re: Wonder No More: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    We need “Apply a BandAid” added to TAB 4!
    WAAFs?


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    Re: Wonder No More: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    We need “Apply a BandAid” added to TAB 4!
    I would prefer..report to the nurses quarters immediately..
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    Re: Wonder No More: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    WAAFs?

    'Big Hilda' is always available but you will need to join the queue!!

    Mind you Marlow will always be the first in line.

    07
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    Re: Wonder No More: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Ribbs View Post
    I would prefer..report to the nurses quarters immediately..
    Absolutely Ribbs


    R & R means "Rest and Recuperation doesn't it ?

    I want to see a group of Dancing Girls and a mobile Cocktail Bar roll up besides my Spitty

    Vamps is right , Marlow's got Big-Hilda looking after him ..Big Hilda New.jpg..

    What about the rest of us eh !

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    Re: Wonder No More: Wondering About '<RR' (or the lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    WAAFs?

    Western Australian Air Force?



    i7 4770K @3.5 GHZ, 24 Gigs DDR3 1600 DIMM, Gigabyte GTX970 4 Gig, Win 10 64 bit, TrackIR 5, TM16000 joystick, TM Warthog Throttle, CH Quadrant, Saitek Pro Combat rudder pedals

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