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Thread: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

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    Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    For use with your preferred flight game.


    https://heritageflightsim.com/home/gallery/

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Hmmm:

    We will also gauge the demand for an interface with say the Spade Grip to the Thrustmaster Warthog Joystick and make that available earlier.
    Such an arrangement would not have the full functionality of the TM joystick as the Spitfire grip only has gun control (safety, cannon, MG and both) and brakes.
    I wonder how hard it would be to add a few extra buttons?

    Been thinking about pulling off a spade grip myself, getting some pipe bent and welded isn't the hardest part, getting it to mate to my X-55 is something I don't think I can pull off
    (in a way I can still return to the original grip)
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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightdare View Post
    Hmmm:
    I wonder how hard it would be to add a few extra buttons?
    Is not difficult, but what the purpose in have a "Franken-porcupine" spade - if is for disfigure the design better keep a "F-16'ish" grip installed in this 'Spit"..

    Besides of "BBC" fire button (Browning, Both, Cannons) - of Mk.V and latter Mk's, usually Spit Spade have a "camera" button.


    https://www.replicaaircraftparts.com...ket-30036-l241

    Under this button can by placed a ALPHS RJX' 4+1 switch and so have more 5 buttons without compromise much the original design.

    This Spade have 2 extra buttons installed in a "ad-hoc" support, besides the "camera" button.

    http://i40.tinypic.com/24e10fo.jpg

    1/2 buttons can be hidden in the back side of Spade.
    Last edited by 1lokos; Feb-15-2018 at 22:33.

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Very cool! I like how they held to the original seat design. Don't really care for the original bakelite, but I've seen some nice ones made from sheetmetal.

    I've been going on a "one prototype a weekend" marathon for my metal simpit.
    Got the 5C-543 Switch done and working this week (to the right). Has a plunger/spring mechanism internally for the action. Have material now for making the switch lever out of aluminum + alodine.



    I've been warming up more to the Ia/IIa recently. Spade grips of all kinds too, hard to pick! I'm more tempted for the canon version though as it seems easier to fabricate...maybe not. Lokos, do you know if the three position had a safety too?
    *edit: Nevermind, looks like the safety is below?

    ~S~
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by 69th_Zeb View Post
    Lokos, do you know if the three position had a safety too?
    *edit: Nevermind, looks like the safety is below?
    Yes, the "BBC" fire button safety is this small lever in lower part, a ingenious mechanism:


    http://www.scalemodellingnow.com/wp-...ing-button.jpg

    This lever pivot around the body of air valve (lower) for fire cannons and through gear tooths rotate the upper part - the compression spring between the two parts is for avoid that lever/gears stop in middle position.

    This turn action align or misalign the pins (visible in left picture, highligh in red in left/center picture, and removed in right/center picture) fitted in lever with the cuts (red dots) in button cap, blocking or not the button cap press the air valves that fire weapons.

    In the pictures the safety lever are for right and holes for pins aligned 9-3 o'clock, in this position the pins prevent the button cap press the air valves for fire weapons.
    A cam in upper part push a pin in upper side for indicate ready to fire or safety.



    But in these disassembled "BBC" relics the cam suggest in the other way around...

    BTW - In DCS Spitfire IXe this safety is modeled and animated correctly.

    Here a good 3D model for 3D printer, but "BBC" button cap is missing.

    https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/mod...5-7fb2058ec4ab
    https://grabcad.com/library/spade-grip-spitfire-mk-ix-1
    Last edited by 1lokos; Feb-15-2018 at 23:56.

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Woa. Very nice explanation Lokos. I'm thinking I could acid etch a gear set with roll pins inserted to give it the same function. Making electrical contact would require something different, but I can see the project being a fun one.

    I really enjoyed your explanation of the round style button too (on another thread). They do also go on the Beau and Blenny, so it might be worth making a version of it too.

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post

    In the pictures the safety lever are for right and holes for pins aligned 9-3 o'clock, in this position the pins prevent the button cap press the air valves for fire weapons.
    A cam in upper part push a pin in upper side for indicate ready to fire or safety.

    But in these disassembled "BBC" relics the cam suggest in the other way around...
    Ops! Figure why CAM looks "puzzle".

    With lever for right "BBC" are in fire position, not safety, happens that pins is not stopped by the points highlight with red dot in the "trigger" (above picture), but pass through the cuts at side of trigger - why pins ends of it are conical:



    Making electrical contact would require something different,
    You can reproduced this exactly for electric buttons, this central piece with 6 holes (for air vent) is a "piston" that press the air valves bellow, so just place the electric buttons in place of air valve.

    For mach the "games needs" in DCSW Spit IXe a additional electric button is need to be momentarily pressed by safety lever movement (a guy use a reed valve there in their "Spade"), this button will send a signal for game turn the safety for fire or safety every time that safely lever is moved.

    I'm thinking I could acid etch a gear
    For a "game controller" you can simplify this safety lever in one piece - without gears, making easy 3D print, example:

    Last edited by 1lokos; Feb-16-2018 at 13:04.

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    Is not difficult, but what the purpose in have a "Franken-porcupine" spade - if is for disfigure the design better keep a "F-16'ish" grip installed in this 'Spit"..

    Besides of "BBC" fire button (Browning, Both, Cannons) - of Mk.V and latter Mk's, usually Spit Spade have a "camera" button.


    https://www.replicaaircraftparts.com...ket-30036-l241

    Under this button can by placed a ALPHS RJX' 4+1 switch and so have more 5 buttons without compromise much the original design.

    This Spade have 2 extra buttons installed in a "ad-hoc" support, besides the "camera" button.

    http://i40.tinypic.com/24e10fo.jpg

    1/2 buttons can be hidden in the back side of Spade.
    1Lokos, that is actually a very good idea. With your permission thats something I could look at incorporating for the standalone spade/Warthog joystick. For the complete simulator, I will be sticking to all the controls exactly as per the DCS World Spitfire MK.IX. With that too visual clues such as the little button indicating that the safety is engaged is less important, as you will be seeing this in VR. There is a small sliding microswitch at the bottom of the BBC in our case which replicates the activation/deactivation of the guns.

    I am also keenly awaiting the IL2 Mk.IX Spit to see how it compares, if necessary some small adjustments to the cockpit could be made to also suit this sim, depending on the users preferred simulation package.

    Roel Stausebach (aka ShredderSA, aka Manchot)
    www.heritageflightsim.com

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by ShredderSA View Post
    With that too visual clues such as the little button indicating that the safety is engaged is less important, as you will be seeing this in VR. There is a small sliding microswitch at the bottom of the BBC in our case which replicates the activation/deactivation of the guns.
    I think that the indicator pin in RL spade grip is more for a tactile than a visual feedback of weapons ready to fire, the thing is too small. Seems convenient for VR.

    BTW - You have information on how is the "gate" stop for 'rated' power in Spitfire throttle lever?

    In Typhoon throttle lever are a kind of "ball plunger" that hit a 'steep" in 'rated' position that need be surpassed for put throttle in 'take-off" position, the "ball-plunger" is visible in this pictures:

    http://spitfirespares.co.uk/Website%...1e%20Large.jpg
    http://spitfirespares.co.uk/Website%...0large%204.jpg

    In this "replica" the stop in 'rated' is not installed - the slotted holes near the end of quadrant is empty.

    https://vintageaviation.fi/spitfire-parts/

    In Spit' throttle the more width opening in the throttle rail at ~2/3 or throttle lever course suggest that throttle lever need be moved for left:

    https://deepblueskysite.files.wordpr...1.jpg?w=370&h=
    Last edited by 1lokos; Mar-03-2018 at 21:59.

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    I think that the indicator pin in RL spade grip is more for a tactile than a visual feedback of weapons ready to fire, the thing is too small. Seems convenient for VR.

    BTW - You have information on how is the "gate" stop for 'rated' power in Spitfire throttle lever?

    In Typhoon throttle lever are a kind of [URL="https://www.diequip.co.nz/products/ball-plunger-1"]"ball plunger" that hit a 'steep" in 'rated' position that need be surpassed for put throttle in 'take-off" position, the "ball-plunger" is visible in this pictures:

    http://spitfirespares.co.uk/Website%...1e%20Large.jpg
    http://spitfirespares.co.uk/Website%...0large%204.jpg

    In this "replica" the stop in 'rated' is not installed - the slotted holes near the end of quadrant is empty.

    https://vintageaviation.fi/spitfire-parts/

    In Spit' throttle the more width opening in the throttle rail at ~2/3 or throttle lever course suggest that throttle lever need be moved for left:

    https://deepblueskysite.files.wordpr...1.jpg?w=370&h=
    Hi Lokos, nice links. The replica stuff looks good but its all very expensive. Following different manufacturing methodology and design, we hope to come in for a much lower price point, obviously for a different purpose, we want to achieve the correct feel. That brings me to your question. the quadrant plate for the Mk.IX is different to what I see on their model:
    MkIX Quadrant Plate.png
    As you can see, there is a widening of the slot. There is also a roller on the throttle handle which I cannot see on their model.
    Roller.png
    How this all comes together to offer a "gate" I hope to figure out from the drawings this coming week.
    In this pic you can see the shape of the quadrant plate on our model and the roller mounted on the throttle shaft:
    Screen Shot 2018-03-03 at 18.13.38.png
    Cheers,
    Roel

    BTW, I think you are right on the tactile feel for the button in VR, will see if I can incorporate that.
    Last edited by ShredderSA; Mar-03-2018 at 11:25.
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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Yeah, pretty pricey and the prop adapter is still 3D printed. I think for the quality and time he puts in though, the price is somewhat fair. He does do some airworthy items as well.

    There's a lot of people putting them together now in different configs. I hope your efforts pan out Roel. The more spit stuff getting made the better!

    -Z

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Thanks Zeb!
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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Or you could get one of these!
    IMG_2756 small.jpg
    IMG_0262 small.jpg
    Both fully funtional and fully operational

    Warthog Spadegrip has BBC, Brake (axis or switch), 2 x 4+1 hat switches, Quadrant has Throtlle, mix, pitch plus 6 switches.

    Production line is small but getting faster.

    Maltloaf

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    1Lokos,

    What is a ALPHS RJX' 4+1, can't find it. If this is the magic hat switch that I have been looking for and I can stop making the damn things I will be happy!

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by Maltloaf1 View Post
    Or you could get one of these!
    IMG_2756 small.jpg
    IMG_0262 small.jpg
    Both fully funtional and fully operational

    Warthog Spadegrip has BBC, Brake (axis or switch), 2 x 4+1 hat switches, Quadrant has Throtlle, mix, pitch plus 6 switches.

    Production line is small but getting faster.

    Maltloaf
    Very nice Maltloaf! Are you making those and at what cost?
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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by ShredderSA View Post
    As you can see, there is a widening of the slot. There is also a roller on the throttle handle which I cannot see on their model.

    How this all comes together to offer a "gate" I hope to figure out from the drawings this coming week.
    Managed to get the gate mechanism figured out from the original MkIX drawings. There is a plate mounted on the inside of the groove which acts as a stop for the throttle lever. Maximum at this point is for takeoff and climb. By bending the lever to the left you can move past this plate or gate into “combat” mode. Hence the wider gap in the quadrant plate. There is an engraved plate on the outside of the throttle quadrant which may be adjusted to fine tune the position.
    This can be seen on the second picture of this post:
    https://heritageflightsim.com/2018/0...o-be-released/
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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by ShredderSA View Post
    By bending the lever to the left you can move past this plate or gate into “combat” mode.
    I imagine that work in this way (due the wide in groove), but what let me intrigued is the fact that lever seems very sturdy, so bend for "go through the gate" will require considerable force. See in this Mk.I/II disassembled:

    http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergal...6-100_4868.jpg

    In this Fw 190 throttle - who require a similar movement for set idle the guy improvise with springs - since don't find information how the original work:

    https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...37&postcount=8
    https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...6&postcount=80

    In Fw 190 throttle the lever is divided in 2 parts (RL): https://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.p...6&d=1506056744

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by Maltloaf1 View Post
    1Lokos,

    What is a ALPHS RJX' 4+1, can't find it. If this is the magic hat switch that I have been looking for and I can stop making the damn things I will be happy!
    Is ALPS RKJXL, has 8 directions plus a central push button.

    http://www.alps.com/prod/info/E/HTML...KJXL_list.html

    Example, set as HAT using OTTO HAT body:

    https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...&postcount=483

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    I imagine that work in this way (due the wide in groove), but what let me intrigued is the fact that lever seems very sturdy, so bend for "go through the gate" will require considerable force. See in this Mk.I/II disassembled:

    http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergal...6-100_4868.jpg
    Useful pictures, thank you Lokos.

    The lever is pretty sturdy, 5mm aluminium. However it has a lot of leverage and only needs to move 2mm to the left to clear the plate. The strength required for this will also be determined by how tightly the friction lever has been turned up.

    Detail of MkIX throttle gate.png
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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by ShredderSA View Post
    Very nice Maltloaf! Are you making those and at what cost?
    Yes I am, the WH joystick is being produced for mates and squadron buddies at the moment. There is a Mk1 and MkV version. The throttle quadrant is on my own sim pit but I have orders for some once I get backlog of joysticks done. No prices yet as I do them for 'mates rates' at the moment. There is no CE or FCC certification at the moment either but that will happen once I sell to the public rather than mates.

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    Is ALPS RKJXL, has 8 directions plus a central push button.

    http://www.alps.com/prod/info/E/HTML...KJXL_list.html

    Example, set as HAT using OTTO HAT body:

    https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...&postcount=483
    Thanks mate, I use SKQUCAA010 also from alps at the moment. I'll have a look at what you suggest and see what they are like.

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by Maltloaf1 View Post
    Yes I am, the WH joystick is being produced for mates and squadron buddies at the moment. There is a Mk1 and MkV version. The throttle quadrant is on my own sim pit but I have orders for some once I get backlog of joysticks done. No prices yet as I do them for 'mates rates' at the moment. There is no CE or FCC certification at the moment either but that will happen once I sell to the public rather than mates.
    I think they are looking great and well done.

    If you dont mind me asking, how did you manage to get a realistic looking "Dunlop Crackle" finish on the stick? Something I have not been able to find a satisfactory solution to.
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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by ShredderSA View Post
    I think they are looking great and well done.

    If you dont mind me asking, how did you manage to get a realistic looking "Dunlop Crackle" finish on the stick? Something I have not been able to find a satisfactory solution to.
    That, my dear Shredder, is a very, very good question. I certainly do not mind you asking and I sincerely hope you won’t be offended if I say I am not willing to answer at this point. As I am sure you know the grips were made of ebonite which was a hard-as-rock thermosetting plastic which, as far as I can tell does not exist anymore. A technology lost. I asked everywhere, including people restoring Spits and Hurricanes professionally and I just could not get an answer. Either they had a solution and they weren’t going to tell me or they didn’t know themselves. It is definitely the one problem that took me the most brain power to solve. Engineering, sorted, electronics and game interface sorted but the Dunlop Crackle eluded me. I have seen it done with tennis racket tape, self-amalgamating tape, handstitched leather, wire binding covered with heat-shrink and even string covered with glue and painted but they all look rubbish. When I finally came up with a repeatable and relatively quick method that looked correct I was fairly chuffed. The fact that you ask is a great compliment, so thank you.

    I have looked at the quality of the engineering on your throttle quadrant and it is simply superb! I salute you. The attention to detail is remarkable. It also shows how much more sophisticated the MkIX was compared to the Mk1.

    Malt

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by Maltloaf1 View Post
    Or you could get one of these!
    IMG_2756 small.jpg
    IMG_0262 small.jpg
    Both fully funtional and fully operational

    Warthog Spadegrip has BBC, Brake (axis or switch), 2 x 4+1 hat switches, Quadrant has Throtlle, mix, pitch plus 6 switches.

    Production line is small but getting faster.

    Maltloaf
    Hmm, that grip on a WarBRD base
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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by Maltloaf1 View Post
    That, my dear Shredder, is a very, very good question. I certainly do not mind you asking and I sincerely hope you won’t be offended if I say I am not willing to answer at this point.

    I have looked at the quality of the engineering on your throttle quadrant and it is simply superb!

    Malt
    No offense taken Malt, if you are going to be doing this commercially you need to guard your IP. Anyway, well done and thanks for the compliment!
    Best regards,
    Roel
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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    I wonder if black pitch used for metal workholding would work. It's a bit toxic but works at reasonable temperatures and hardens well.
    They also sell red pitch, which is a little easier to use and could be painted black.
    https://www.riogrande.com/product/red-pitch/118074

    I just made first chips yesterday on my new Sherline set! Looking forward to making all kinds of Spitfire/Beaufighter/109/whatever stuff!

    mini_workshop.jpg


    Here's a video of black pitch being applied. One of my favorite series on youtube by the way!
    https://youtu.be/wGMj7o6AwnM?t=424

    -Z
    Last edited by 69th_Zeb; Mar-16-2018 at 10:55.

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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    Quote Originally Posted by 69th_Zeb View Post
    I wonder if black pitch used for metal workholding would work. It's a bit toxic but works at reasonable temperatures and hardens well.
    They also sell red pitch, which is a little easier to use and could be painted black.
    https://www.riogrande.com/product/red-pitch/118074

    I just made first chips yesterday on my new Sherline set! Looking forward to making all kinds of Spitfire/Beaufighter/109/whatever stuff!

    mini_workshop.jpg

    -Z
    Worth looking into, thanks Zeb. Nice little rig you have there!
    Making historic flight accessible
    http://www.heritageflightsim.com

  36. #28
    Student Pilot ShredderSA's Avatar
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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    I think I may have the Dunlop Crackle pegged...
    https://heritageflightsim.com/2018/0...unlop-crackle/
    Making historic flight accessible
    http://www.heritageflightsim.com

  37. #29
    Novice Pilot biggles1666's Avatar
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    Re: Spitfire Mk.9 cockpit

    hiya i sat in a spit mk 9 at an airshow on the 7thjuly was best day ever some pics>> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...3b-JN1Mrx0hl-K
    Last edited by biggles1666; Jul-25-2019 at 21:21.

  38. Likes 69th_Zeb liked this post

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