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Thread: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

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    Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Hi,
    ...... now hear what we should be hearing.
    You are about to be blown away so hang onto your seats, this is what we should have. Your life after this will be different ! You will not rest until this is on your PC.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcNfdWgzKbQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMdC3wNwWXs

    Tiger 33 sounds are what CoD needs, at long last I see/hear CoD far better than it is, we need this.
    Tiger 33 has done what I for one have been waiting for, sounds that have a real similarity to reality, to what I know of these,
    Sound with balls ! no more pathetic whine as a spitfire flies past, just listen to that MGFF cannon, and MG17, and 303, and DB601....oh wow !
    Years of seeing CoD spoilt by weak engine inaccurate sounds and even the .303 has now got far worse due to copyright, then along comes Tiger 33 and shows us what is possible.
    So if he can do it why cant CoD MoD ?

    Just do what Tiger 33 has done.

    Simple answer is,....Are you out there Tiger 33 where are the downloads ? How do we install them ?

    Please at least PM me, I want a set.

    BOBC
    Last edited by BOBC; Feb-26-2018 at 19:03.

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    BOBC , Tiger33 was approached and asked if he would like to join TFS about 2-years-go. He declined.

    TFS are now 'legitimate' and as such, unless they own or have permission to use copyright audio (of which most of Tiger' mods are) then they cannot be included. I'm sure if someone wanted to donate/pay for copyright audio files to be used by them they would accept them, but modded audio files without any provence are just impossible to use.
    "The needs of the Flight Sim Community outweigh the needs of the one or the few"

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticpuma View Post
    I'm sure if someone wanted to donate/pay for copyright audio files to be used by them they would accept them, but modded audio files without any provence are just impossible to use.
    Q1. What is the copyright on recording an engine sound at an airshow ?
    If one has just that sound, with nothing else running, or people talking, no wind noise etc, i.e. a pure sound , can that sound be supplied and used by TFS if the person doing the filming gives full rights to using their recording ?

    Q2. If two people are present filming an aircraft and one puts the recording onto YouTube, whilst the other provides portions of the different RPM stages to TFS, is that admissable ? The youtuber cannot copyright their recording as surely a sound is the property and copyright of anyone who were recording at the time.

    Q3. What is the copyright on a WW2 recording of an engine sound if it is used in :-
    a: a 1960s LP
    b: a 1960s cassette

    Q4. What is the copyright on an engine recording made in WW2 if it exists on a 78rpm created at the time and the owner of that 78 record is happy for TFS to use the sound captured from it ?

    Q5. If a warbird owner gives permission for a recording to be made of their engine, is that admissable ?

    Q6. If a company that have filmed merlins and DB605's in the past give permission for sound sampling, is that admissable ?

    Q7. What funds are there if a company asks for a one off payment ?

    Q8. If an MG15 owner or .303 owner is willing to have a sound recording of their gun firing supplied to TFS is that admissable ?

    Q9. can a sound engineer supplied with a sound recording to analyze its make up and replicate its constituent parts, be used to create from scratch a sound, if such a method is feasible ?

    Q10. can a CoD user do what Tiger 33 did and create the sound files by accessing the originals and replacing them with extracts of sounds they have, for their own use only ? Tiger33 managed it so unless he has Spock like abilities it must be feasible.

    Q11. I supplied sounds for all the German engines and RAF to TheVino a few yrs ago, are they still to be used ?

    I might be able to assist in many of the above scenarios

    Cheers

    BOBC
    Last edited by BOBC; Feb-27-2018 at 11:54.

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by BOBC View Post
    Q1. What is the copyright on recording an engine sound at an airshow ?
    If one has just that sound, with nothing else running, or people talking, no wind noise etc, i.e. a pure sound , can that sound be supplied and used by TFS if the person doing the filming gives full rights to using their recording ?

    Q2. If two people are present filming an aircraft and one puts the recording onto YouTube, whilst the other provides portions of the different RPM stages to TFS, is that admissable ? The youtuber cannot copyright their recording as surely a sound is the property and copyright of anyone who were recording at the time.

    Q3. What is the copyright on a WW2 recording of an engine sound if it is used in :-
    a: a 1960s LP
    b: a 1960s cassette

    Q4. What is the copyright on an engine recording made in WW2 if it exists on a 78rpm created at the time and the owner of that 78 record is happy for TFS to use the sound captured from it ?

    Q5. If a warbird owner gives permission for a recording to be made of their engine, is that admissable ?

    Q6. I a company that have filmed merlins and DB605's in the past give permission for sound samppling, is that admissable ?

    Q7. What funds are there if a company asks for a one off payment ?

    Q8. If an MG15 owner or .303 owner is willing to have a sound recording of their gun firing supplied to TFS is that admissable ?

    Q9. can a sound engineer supplied with a sound recording to analyze its make up and replicate its constituent parts, be used to create from scratch a sound, if such a method is feasible ?

    Q10. can a CoD user do what Tiger 33 did and create the sound files by accessing the originals and replacing them with extracts of sounds they have, for their own use only ? Tiger33 managed it so unless he has Spock like abilities it must be feasible.

    Q11. I supplied sounds for all the German engines and RAF to TheVino a few yrs ago, are they still to be used ?

    I might be able to assist in many of the above scenarios

    Cheers

    BOBC
    Sorry for the long answer. Copyright is a mess in the best of circumstances. You would need to hire good lawyers (i.e. very expensive) to figure some of those out. In general, for copyright attribution, you need to establish a) what is the unique item being protected, and b) who owns it. Both items are subjected to the laws of whatever country you want to sell your product in; in this case it is international, so.. good luck.

    So, let us say that you go in a deserted forest, record the calming sound of the forest and chirping of birds, and then sell the recorded track on, say, the Apple Store. You are clearly the owner of that recording and the copyright belongs to you. That is, until the birds can hire a lawyer to contest your rights, but let us not go there for now; although, if you are in a National Park, for instance, would they come after you? I bet they would, if you make enough money. Now, if I take your particular soundtrack and try to sell it on my website, I am infringing your copyright. Same thing if I include that track in my game without paying royalties to you. However, if I go to my own little forest, with my own recording equipment and make my own track, essentially the same content, but not identical, then I own that and can do whatever I want with it.

    Now, let us see another case. I own a very special bird which I spent 3 years training to make a very unique and delightful chirping sound. No other bird is known to have that ability, and only I know how I managed that training. I also charge admission to hear the bird chirp happily. Now, if you want to record that bird and sell the track, I can, probably, successfully argue that I own that copyright. That would come down to who has the best lawyers, but if I can convince a judge, it looks like I should pull it off and enforce copyright.

    If you then figure out how to train another bird yourself to make the same chirp, then it gets complicated. Do I own the special chirp because I "invented" it first? Can I prove that I invented it? Does it exist in nature somewhere else so you did not have to hear it from my bird to reproduce it? On this one, lawyers would have a field day and secure their early wealthy retirement while we both go bankrupt.

    Now, coming to engine sounds, what item is then being protected and who owns it?

    1. You can claim that a clean recording is the special item, because the sound of the engine is publicly available. In this case, whoever does the clean, good recording is the owner of that item's copyright. I do not think that owners of the engine/airplane have legal rights in this case, other than for the fact that you probably need their permission to come close enough to make a good recording under controlled conditions. They have the right to allow or refuse you from staying near their aircraft, but if you manage to do it in the open air without special conditions, while the air show goes on, than it is yours only. That is unless you signed a waiver that prohibits you from making any recording, such as when going to certain shows (pictures not allowed, etc.)

    2. The engine has such a unique sound that it is a unique item. Could Rolls-Royce argue that the Merlin sound is so unique to be copyrighted? This is lawyer territory again. In at least one famous case, Harley Davidson tried hard, and narrowly failed in 2000 to patent the sound of their engines. Would Rolls-Royce ever go after it? Who knows.. perhaps not, given that the Merlin is no longer in production; on the other hand, if somebody starts making money with that sound, it would become tempting (as a function of the amount of revenues being made).

    From TF point of view, the problem boils down to the traceability of the legality of the recording. If you buy an item it is your responsibility (the buyer's) to determine that the person claiming ownership is in fact the legal owner and no other claims can be made. Otherwise, you become exposed to litigation.

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Very nice explanation uranor. Do you have a copyright on it, because I am tempted to use it

    But I think in our case it is still harder for TFS:
    "Would Rolls-Royce ever go after it?"
    It is not even necessary that the copyright owner (Rolls-Royce) is suing. Any lawyer could do this, without even informing them.

    "if somebody starts making money with that sound, it would become tempting (as a function of the amount of revenues being made)."
    Again it is not even necessary that you make money with it, just that someone is involved who has money. (We are publishing scientific books that you can download for free. Still a laywer could sue our university if we would print a picture without the written permission of the copyright owner, that's why I know.)
    TFS has a contract with 1c and they do have money. They also have lawyers, who might fight back. But more probably they would just pull the plug and stop CloD development, because it would cost money to go through the trouble.

    Thus, in short words:
    It's not worth it!

    Let's be patient and look what solutions TFS will find.

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    Very nice explanation uranor. Do you have a copyright on it, because I am tempted to use it

    But I think in our case it is still harder for TFS:
    "Would Rolls-Royce ever go after it?"
    It is not even necessary that the copyright owner (Rolls-Royce) is suing. Any lawyer could do this, without even informing them.

    "if somebody starts making money with that sound, it would become tempting (as a function of the amount of revenues being made)."
    Again it is not even necessary that you make money with it, just that someone is involved who has money. (We are publishing scientific books that you can download for free. Still a laywer could sue our university if we would print a picture without the written permission of the copyright owner, that's why I know.)
    TFS has a contract with 1c and they do have money. They also have lawyers, who might fight back. But more probably they would just pull the plug and stop CloD development, because it would cost money to go through the trouble.

    Thus, in short words:
    It's not worth it!

    Let's be patient and look what solutions TFS will find.
    I posted on a public forum, without issuing a disclaimer, so feel free to use it. Of course, if you do make money with it, I will sue you (yes, joking).

    It is true that, strictly speaking, it is not even necessary that you profit from using something to be sued. I was just implicitly assuming that even a lawyer would be somewhat rational (assumption, I know), and only sue an entity if they hope to make good cash for it. On the other hand, if they just hate you, or want to see you suffer and go bankrupt, they could still do it.

    I agree that it is not worth it. What could be done, is to publish instructions on how to change the sound of CloD engines easily in whatever new sound users like, including chirping birds, so if a user finds something they like, it can be easily changed and TF has no responsibility on the provenance of the sound files. Assuming no gross infringement of obviously copyrighted material is done by the users, then, for fair personal use, copyright infringement would be extremely unlikely to ever be an issue.

    ~Uranor

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticpuma View Post
    BOBC , Tiger33 was approached and asked if he would like to join TFS about 2-years-go. He declined.

    TFS are now 'legitimate' and as such, unless they own or have permission to use copyright audio (of which most of Tiger' mods are) then they cannot be included. I'm sure if someone wanted to donate/pay for copyright audio files to be used by them they would accept them, but modded audio files without any provence are just impossible to use.
    9./JG54 GERMANWOLF

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    There is a good chance here I am offering for TFS to legally create the sounds Tiger33 did, so could someone from TFS answer the questions I put, as depending on the answers I can then supply sound files that would be ok to use !

    I might have to speak nicely to a couple of contacts

    Did the sounds I supplied get binned ? TheVino33 ?

    There is a chance I am offering to get sounds like those videos., need the questions answering please !

    Also Q10. would love to know answer...

    Nothing to stop a CoD user switching out the default files for the sounds they have,FOR THEIR OWN USE, even if they are chirping birds, might we know how its done, how Tiger33 did it, or is that knowledge Verboten ?

    If someone can PM me that method, that should avoid it falling into the hands of those who might distribute it.

    Thanks

    BOBC

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Presuming of course that you can be trusted more so than anyone else on the forum eh?

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by TWC_Sp00k View Post
    Presuming of course that you can be trusted more so than anyone else on the forum eh?
    True I might be a rogue and go and distribute the results, however I am 100% trustworthy, but I would be willing to sign a form or whatever is put to me if need be !
    I dont believe in shooting myself in the foot !

    BOBC

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by BOBC View Post
    Hi,
    ...... now hear what we should be hearing.

    Tiger 33 sounds are what CoD needs, at long last I see/hear CoD far better than it is, we need this.
    Tiger 33 has done what I for one have been waiting for, sounds that have a real similarity to reality, to what I know of these,
    Sound with balls ! no more pathetic whine as a spitfire flies past, just listen to that MGFF cannon, and MG17, and 303, and DB601....oh wow !
    Years of seeing CoD spoilt by weak engine inaccurate sounds and even the .303 has now got far worse due to copyright, then along comes Tiger 33 and shows us what is possible.
    So if he can do it why cant CoD MoD ?

    BOBC
    I understand all the legal ramifications, but I still find it pretty sad that 1946 has this and yet CloD and even BOX still have same old lame stock sounds. Even many of the fan made promotional videos for CloD use non-stock sounds! I personally find it hard to believe that widely known and widely recorded sounds from a long discontinued engine would be still licensed, while hundreds of YouTubers are completely ripping off licences and re-uploading movie clips and music they don't have to rights to with what hardly seems like a word from You Tube. And I guarantee you that popular movies and music have far more money and license value involved than aircraft sounds. Modding out the problems is honestly the only reason many of us still use old sims like 1946 and CloD at all. Sorry to say this but simply put, if TF won't or can't fix the sounds, someone else will might eventually make a mod; same as everyone mods right around Team Daedalus in 1946.

    If someone is offering access to better sounds, I don't see why someone can't at least look into the ramifications for including them in a future patch.
    Last edited by Kestrel; Mar-05-2018 at 14:55.
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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    From what I understand..no one is stopping you from creating your own personal sound bank. You can use all day everyday in SP. ( Just don't try and use them in MP..they won't work.)For TFS to create a sound bank and distribute it in a paid for ,( 5.0)download, then the problems could start to arise. I am totally ignorant in this area.. because I have no idea how they could even tell and prove that TFS used a certain sound file..but evedently they can trace it back and prove it somehow. That's good enough for me. I love Tiger33 sounds as well..but it's just not worth the risk. I feel Slipstream has come up with some great sounds as well. So I'm happy. S Slip for all your hard work Brotha!. The flak still scares me ..Yikes!

    As far as Team Dialados... I don't think there is anything wrong with them using the sounds they do as long as they have permission from the author..and also the fact that they don't charge for any of their content??.. That's the biggest difference. Once money and companies are involved, then things have a tendency to get leagally messy in a hurry. Nobody wants/ needs that.
    Last edited by ATAG_Ribbs; Mar-05-2018 at 16:55. Reason: Wanted to personally thank the staff at the Holiday inn Express I stayed at last night.
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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Ok, simply put (again).
    For example, Kestrel.
    A flight enthusiast records a piece of audio from a Spitfire.
    They upload it to a stock library and charge people £5 to download and listen to it for personal use only.
    You hear it, buy it and share it with TFS.
    TFS don't know it wasn't yours, thank you for letting them use it and put it into v5.0 paid for add-on.
    TFS are now selling someone else's copyright material. They are making money from material they have no rights to sell, it is someone else's copyright.
    The person who originally created it loves flight Sims, plays CloD and realises it is their audio.
    Let's say for example v5.0 sells 20,000 copies.
    The copyright holder then decides they have lost out on 20,000 sales as everyone who purchased v5.0 now has their audio for free, yet they have only made £5.00 from your original purchase.
    Who do you think they would sue? Most likely TFS and TFS most likely would lose £100,000.
    But you claimed the file was yours to share. Who do you think TFS will she to recoup that money? Yes, you.
    However they then need to take into consideration every country has their own rules on copyright, who can be sued, etc, etc.

    So now consider that was just one single aircraft. Imagine if you had supplied an audio library of 20 aircraft, each at £5.00 per download..... that's £2,000,000 they could be sued for!

    Think about it. There is no way any audio file without proven copyright belonging to the 'giver' of the file is ever going to make it into a paid for add-on. Before, Stephen they were unofficial they worked in the same realms as SAS, HSFX and others. Now they are official, legal guidelines must be followed as simply put, C or Unisoft are not going to foot the legal bill for the stupidity of including someone else's copyright material without written and signed permission......and finding that for all the modded soundfies that can be offered from the internet is not worth 1% of the risk.
    "The needs of the Flight Sim Community outweigh the needs of the one or the few"

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    - TFS has a legal contract with 1C... which requires we have ownership of all data and files we supply to them for publication. If we provide anything for which we do not have ownership, TFS's entire licencing agreement is subject to immediate cancellation by 1C. This is entirely understandable... 1C does not want to be sued by some third party who claims ownership after a TFS product has been released by 1C... and be forced to pay out revenue share and damages.

    - TFS is not prepared to accept hazy guarantees by unknown parties on the web, we require all those contributors supplying data or files to sign a contract acknowledging their ownership and legal title of all files/data they supply and which are incorporated in TFS releases. Those contributors must sign the contract in the presence of a Notary who guarantees the contributors identity.

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    I have stickied this thread because it answers definitively the ongoing issue of sounds in Cliffs of Dover. I’m admittedly a big fan of Slipstream’s continuing work on the aircraft sounds, especially in view of the constraints that have been ably described above. And I’m sure Slippy ain’t done yet!

    Thanks to BOBC for initiating this thread and everyone’s contributions thus far.



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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    I have stickied this thread because it answers definitively the ongoing issue of sounds in Cliffs of Dover. I’m admittedly a big fan of Slipstream’s continuing work on the aircraft sounds, especially in view of the constraints that have been ably described above. And I’m sure Slippy ain’t done yet!

    Thanks to BOBC for initiating this thread and everyone’s contributions thus far.


    I'm a veteran at CLOD, I think the sound of the engines has to be improved. It's still far from the reality. Please let's improve this.
    9./JG54 GERMANWOLF

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by GERMANWOLF View Post
    I'm a veteran at CLOD, I think the sound of the engines has to be improved. It's still far from the reality. Please let's improve this.


    “And I’m sure Slippy ain’t done yet!”


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    Exclamation Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    “And I’m sure Slippy ain’t done yet!”

    I did not understand the answer, but I leave my personal opinion here.
    9./JG54 GERMANWOLF

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by GERMANWOLF View Post
    I did not understand the answer, but I leave my personal opinion here.
    It means that work is ongoing.


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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Then the answer to the issue has been found! All a forum member here needs to do is procure the equipment and technical know-how, then travel the world to the various aircraft locations. All Cliffs needs is a high quality, isolated and proper recording of a DB600, DB601 (don't forget a 605 for the future as well!), Jumo 211, Merlin, Mercury & Pegasus engine. Once that's done, that person just needs to sign over those recordings in the presence of a notary and everything is set. After that, the next trip can be booked to record an Allison, P&W R-1830, BMW 801, and other future (possible) Team Fusion needs.

    I'll check my schedule.






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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticpuma View Post
    Ok, simply put (again).
    For example, Kestrel. ...

    ...Think about it. There is no way any audio file without proven copyright belonging to the 'giver' of the file is ever going to make it into a paid for add-on. Before, Stephen they were unofficial they worked in the same realms as SAS, HSFX and others. Now they are official, legal guidelines must be followed as simply put, C or Unisoft are not going to foot the legal bill for the stupidity of including someone else's copyright material without written and signed permission......and finding that for all the modded soundfies that can be offered from the internet is not worth 1% of the risk.
    Ok, that makes more sense, fair enough. Thanks for explaining! So essentially TFS can't do it because they are working with money, but an unpaid/free-to-use entity could make a sound mod if they collected their own sounds legally.

    Quote Originally Posted by FightingSteel1 View Post
    Then the answer to the issue has been found! All a forum member here needs to do is procure the equipment and technical know-how, then travel the world to the various aircraft locations. All Cliffs needs is a high quality, isolated and proper recording of a DB600, DB601 (don't forget a 605 for the future as well!), Jumo 211, Merlin, Mercury & Pegasus engine. Once that's done, that person just needs to sign over those recordings in the presence of a notary and everything is set. After that, the next trip can be booked to record an Allison, P&W R-1830, BMW 801, and other future (possible) Team Fusion needs.

    I'll check my schedule.
    It is possible, even for a paid entity. Gaijin recorded actual tank sounds for War Thunder using tanks from a museum.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ8foF7bktQ
    War Thunder actually has some pretty unmatchable realism in tanks compared to the competition.

    There is a Spit, Hurri, 108, and 109 at a quiet grass strip a couple hours from me, it's too bad I don't have some nice sound recording equipment! I believe they probably have one of the largest collections of flying German planes in the world. A whole hanger full of just German planes... at one point they had 3 Fw190s, though I don't think all of them fly. They're constantly flying their planes out to airshows from there, and you can walk literally right up to the runway. Maybe someone could record them someday? The owner is a nice guy and he might be willing to let someone use sounds from his aircraft if he knew it was for the benefit of aviation. You could get most of the sounds you need just from their run-ups and takeoffs. They also have a FM-2, Ju-52, B-25, PBY, and a Mosquito that could potentially be used for engine sounds for other aircraft.

    They're about 20 minutes inland from Virginia Beach, USA. (I think we have several members on the East Coast...)
    Museum: http://militaryaviationmuseum.org/
    Restoration: https://www.fighterfactory.com/warbirds
    Last edited by Kestrel; Mar-07-2018 at 14:44.
    Kestrel

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    Ok, that makes more sense, fair enough. Thanks for explaining! So essentially TFS can't do it because they are working with money, but an unpaid/free-to-use entity could make a sound mod if they collected their own sounds legally.



    It is possible, even for a paid entity. Gaijin recorded actual tank sounds for War Thunder using tanks from a museum.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ8foF7bktQ
    War Thunder actually has some pretty unmatchable realism in tanks compared to the competition.

    There is a Spit, Hurri, 108, and 109 at a quiet grass strip a couple hours from me, it's too bad I don't have some nice sound recording equipment! I believe they probably have one of the largest collections of flying German planes in the world. A whole hanger full of just German planes... at one point they had 3 Fw109s, though I don't think all of them fly. They're constantly flying their planes out to airshows from there, and you can walk literally right up to the runway. Maybe someone could record them someday? The owner is a nice guy and he might be willing to let someone use sounds from his aircraft if he knew it was for the benefit of aviation. You could get most of the sounds you need just from their run-ups and takeoffs. They also have a FM-2, Ju-52, B-25, PBY, and a Mosquito that could potentially be used for engine sounds for other aircraft.

    They're about 20 minutes inland from Virginia Beach, USA.
    Museum: http://militaryaviationmuseum.org/
    Restoration: https://www.fighterfactory.com/warbirds
    I was just being kind of sarcastic while lining out some of the steps it would take to accomplish this To do this right, you have to find aircraft that the owners are ok with you recording and travel to those locations. I haven't researched or anything, but I don't know of any one location that has a working example of all these powerplants. You need quality mics and recording equipment and know what you're doing with them. And you need this to be done in as isolated of a setting as possible while trying to get a consistent quality recording from aircraft to aircraft. Idle, different RPMs, maybe a flyby recording and possibly record from different distances from the powerplant as well.

    I'm just saying this is why you can't just grab your buddy's airshow camera recording, or some guys "who knows where it came from" audio online. It's best to do it right, with consistent quality and legally all at once.

    So, I'll go ahead and volunteer to get this done for the community, as long as my extensive travel and equipment expenses are covered.

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by FightingSteel1 View Post
    I was just being kind of sarcastic while lining out some of the steps it would take to accomplish this

    Sure, all I'm saying is that if someone wants it bad enough it can be done!

    I understand all the legal ramifications, but it's not as impossible as it may sound.
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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Hi,
    There could be help and sounds available if someone can answer the questions in post#3 here...pleeeeeeze .

    Also visiting that aviation museum with its spitfire and 109 would be an excellent way. Any airshow etc has sounds we dont want, the sound CD of Black 6 called Checkflight Gustav was done by 'shutting down' Duxford whilst it was recorded., no vehicles, voices aircraft etc. Its their copyright but has anyone tried asking the copyright owners of that CD ? Russ Snadden is a very nice chap but I havent got my genuine CD immediately to hand to see who on it is the person to contact. Though a DB605 it would be THE sound to have and no one would tell the difference, or care as long as we have that and not the current noise.

    Here it is in the USA for sale:-
    http://www.aircraftrecords.com/checkflightgustav.html
    https://www.amazon.com/Checkflight-G.../dp/B000YB116C love the reviews. beware your speakers ! we just have to ask the originators !

    10ft away from inertia startup, then recorded from external through to take off and flight and landing, then repeated this time from cockpit.

    I wish someone would do the Me109E and Spitfire Mk1 this way., and Blenheim, superb BoB Trilogy it would make, and it would sell !!!!

    has anyone a ground running Jumo211 ?

    For Do17Z Bramo Fafnir 323 are also used in some Ju52, just needs one engine running and testing, recorded external and internal, then dual track it in sound editor.

    Try also contacting this chap, he will probably be only too pleased to consider his session will be heard again and again, are credits allowed, bit of advertising for him pays ! Could do with a more normal successful start up, but a lot of pure sound to be had, third start ok, just add in the winding up crank up from elsewhere, maybe black 6.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqCcVMOR-ZY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrsevx137jg

    I have more if only those questions can be answered.

    How did Futaba manage this ?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A1AFp1PMps

    Contact current copyright owners of Spitfire. in cockpit , though later Merlin, still wonderful and superior to CoD.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JgyKO3WT28

    BOBC
    Last edited by BOBC; Mar-12-2018 at 17:47.

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by BOBC View Post
    Hi,
    There could be help and sounds available if someone can answer the questions in post#3 here...pleeeeeeze .
    As I personally was kind of suggesting, the only way this game gets correct sound clips of the various powerplants is if someone that knows what they're doing literally travels to aircraft locations and records them from scratch. TF leadership already mentioned the legal use ramifications, and the only way that isn't a concern is for new recordings to be specifically made for this sim. Then they have to be officially signed over to 1C or whatever.

    Also, using so and so's recording from wherever, and some other guys sound clip, etc. doesn't allow for any kind of recording quality standard between powerplants.

    Third issue is the fact IMO it wouldn't make sense to have these exact real world sounds for some aircraft and not for others. Gotta find a running Jumo 211 somewhere right?

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by FightingSteel1 View Post
    As I personally was kind of suggesting, the only way this game gets correct sound clips of the various powerplants is if someone that knows what they're doing literally travels to aircraft locations and records them from scratch. TF leadership already mentioned the legal use ramifications, and the only way that isn't a concern is for new recordings to be specifically made for this sim. Then they have to be officially signed over to 1C or whatever.

    Also, using so and so's recording from wherever, and some other guys sound clip, etc. doesn't allow for any kind of recording quality standard between powerplants.

    Third issue is the fact IMO it wouldn't make sense to have these exact real world sounds for some aircraft and not for others. Gotta find a running Jumo 211 somewhere right?
    In the case of the Jumo, we used an engine which had the most similarities, that being the inverted V12 DB601, and then added a little more bass for the extra displacement. The sound was also quietened, because the Jumo had less valve noise.

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    I think the engine sounds in TF CloD sound pretty good.

    Now if someone could record the (in my opinion much worse than the 4.3 versions) machine-guns and cannons - that would be awesome!

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by FightingSteel1 View Post
    Also, using so and so's recording from wherever, and some other guys sound clip, etc. doesn't allow for any kind of recording quality standard between powerplants.
    Quite honestly, I think many people would prefer a bit of uneven quality between aircraft WITH real life sounds than perfect quality standards with the current sounds.

    Hate to bring them up again here but WarThunder has hundreds of tanks in their game. Obviously they couldn't record the sounds of tanks that no longer exist. Yet the quality standard is good enough that you can hardly even tell the difference between the tanks with real sounds, and the ones with made up sounds.

    We've shown many examples of companies and other games using these same kinds of sounds. If the initiative is taken, it is possible.
    Kestrel

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    Quite honestly, I think many people would prefer a bit of uneven quality between aircraft WITH real life sounds than perfect quality standards with the current sounds.
    I second that, the DB601 engine run up sounds acceptable to me, that in CoD would be better than what we have unless there is a definite plan to better it with already accessed sound files., how do you better that sound ? Its digital, its without extraneous noises, no wind noise, no humans etc. If the 'filmer' signs the form is that not ok ?

    If I knew how to edit the sound files I would have it for myself and be very happy.

    BOBC

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    Re: Tiger 33 to the rescue .. this is what CoD should sound like

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    Quite honestly, I think many people would prefer a bit of uneven quality between aircraft WITH real life sounds than perfect quality standards with the current sounds.

    Hate to bring them up again here but WarThunder has hundreds of tanks in their game. Obviously they couldn't record the sounds of tanks that no longer exist. Yet the quality standard is good enough that you can hardly even tell the difference between the tanks with real sounds, and the ones with made up sounds.
    Hey everyone has their opinion, but I'm more of a do it right the first time guy, so I don't see the point of trekking somewhere to record a Merlin and a DB601 and then forget about the others. Listen to the video above...you don't think it would be odd in a commercial product to have this perfect sounding Merlin but then have other aircraft in the game use a stock approximation? I also don't think "uneven quality" is something to shoot for either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    We've shown many examples of companies and other games using these same kinds of sounds. If the initiative is taken, it is possible.
    Exactly...like this:



    Anybody that isn't recording their own is either paying licensing fees or digitally creating their own. I'm sure people have bugged the BOX people to death about this subject as well, but they don't use "real" sounds either.

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