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Thread: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

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    Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Hi,
    A while ago I was advised to wait before skinning as colour changes were to come in 4.5 so as we are now with 4.5 are those changes now existing with it or still pending release of 5.0 ?
    Thread now closed asking when 4.5 was to be released.

    Its the fact that designing to screen in a normal graphical way in RGB and a calibrated monitor , CoD doesnt uphold the laws of such and will turn such colours different when flown.
    making skinning colour wise somewhat difficult.

    Cheers

    BOBC

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    Supporting Member Ohms's Avatar
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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    CLOD is what it is and I doubt it will ever meet your expectations. Most would prefer TFS to spend time on new aircraft and expanding on what is now an old sim/game than tweaking what we have to get Ground crew the right colour etc. Just my two cents.

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOBC View Post
    ..CoD doesnt uphold the laws of such and will turn such colours different when flown...
    As Ohms says - there are (& likely always will be) things that are a higher priority than whether pantone 123whatever displays on a correctly calibrated monitor in a correct fashion. Added to that is the fact that whatever colours are used they WILL look different to everyone that looks at them - partly because their screens will display them differently and partly because no two people see any given colour in the exact same way.

    I suspect skinning is a black art and will always remain so. Im confident that people will continue to be appreciative of the efforts that skinners make regardless of whether the shade is exactly as they would like it to be.

    Happy skinning

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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Hi,
    ask a simple question....
    I just wish to know when is the colour engine being changed as I was told was happening, hold off from skinning for the moment as the way CoD handles colours is changing I was told.

    I am not after pantone 123 appearing in CoD bang accurate, never said I was, I realise that different monitors are set up differently etc. Just that there is no point in making skins if along comes this colour management change and they need redoing., as I was warned of.

    if it is changing and allowing dk green in photoshop to be dk green and not go brown in sim, its worth waiting for as it will make skinning easier.

    Imagine you cook a lemon cake and it tastes of ginger ! Skinning is hard work so to have less hindrance has to be good.

    Most would prefer TFS to spend time on new aircraft and expanding on what is now an old sim/game than tweaking what we have to get Ground crew the right colour etc.
    Is this a known thing, that flyers of CoD BoB in fact dont want BoB ? best as the subject of a separate thread as I wish to keep this thread about colour engine change.

    I didnt say my need was for that and that is not what I had in mind.

    But as you put that in this thread, I shall respond, I have offered by the way to do the re-skinning of them (whatever colour engine we have) saving others time so that the apparently more important task of creating non BoB aircraft and non BoB theatres can be done.

    I personally would like to see RAF groundcrew and Luft groundcrew, but thats a side wish, I feel its incorrect to see the army of both sides servicing aircraft, I like CoD to show BoB as it was, others I know are there for the flying, I also like the visuals as well, CoD could be BoB realistic visually, and anyway someone else has decreed they are wrong as 5.0 is planned to fix them, but that is not why I wrote this thread, I just want to know if I need to wait before skinning or not. Please.

    as might other skinners hearing of a change to the colour handling.

    Thanks.

    BOBC
    Last edited by BOBC; Feb-27-2018 at 17:02.

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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    I can lend you my crayons

    Rall Codes.jpg

    Bit low on greens at the mo.


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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOBC
    Is this a known thing, that flyers of CoD BoB in fact dont want BoB ?
    Is this what I tried say to you many times.

    No, most players, specially dedicated to MP only don't care much about that 'B of B' thing, don't care if Spit I cockpit is a "generic" Spit cockpit instead a Spit I cockpit, etc, etc...

    They majority want just a competitive "cybersport" with WWII planes* - and preferable with late war models due "big guns" and more speed.
    But that planes need have kind of digital "HUD".

    What matter is new planes, different maps... then more different planes, more different maps, historic details is for "rivet counting" guys.

    Game developers, e.g. TFS need fill this market wishes and manage their resources accordingly - even if they care about historic details, "riveting count" is not an priority.

    After 4.50 the focus is make a "new" game with CloD 'problematic' engine, based in North Africa or somewhere, is not fix the "B of B" part - this don't sell the game.

    Battle of Britain CFS is thing of past now, difficulty any game developer will look at this again in the future, unless in "arcade" BS like the "plane mechanic" 303 Squadron recently released.

    The market pressure over developers there is not different from what is in IL-2:Battle of Stalingrad, what matter is new planes, maps, packed there as "Battle of..." every year. The "new" is what sell games.
    Last edited by 1lokos; Feb-27-2018 at 18:06.

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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    New in !!!

    green.jpg

    hurry while stocks last!

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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Is this a known thing, that flyers of CoD BoB in fact dont want BoB ? best as the subject of a separate thread as I wish to keep this thread about colour engine change.



    BOBC[/QUOTE]

    We who have been playing this game since 2011 have played it almost to its death, i have 2500 hrs plus flying the same planes on the same map and are looking for a new challenge. TFS have done a wonderful job keeping our interest for so long. This game was was a starting point for the game engine not the one and only that it turned into. i take offense at your above remark , the real battle lasted 6 months or so not 6 years thats why i would like TFS TO LOOK AHEAD NOT BACK.

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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    [QUOTE=ATAG_Ohms;306784]Is this a known thing, that flyers of CoD BoB in fact dont want BoB ? best as the subject of a separate thread as I wish to keep this thread about colour engine change.

    I simply asked is this a known thing, I would be interested in viewing the thread where this development and requirement for CoD is discussed so as to understand users not wanting just BoB, that such discussion IS for another thread, and asked that this thread be kept to its intended subject.
    Not sure how that is offensive, sorry if it caused offense, not sure why it did, my simple question thread has been sent off with posts since in a different direction here,..

    Am I not also allowed my original subject ?

    How am I supposed to feel about that ?

    Can we please stick to the subject of the post. I asked a simple question of use to me and other skinners.

    please provide a link to where the non BoB demands are being discussed to steer such from this thread.

    Thanks

    BOBC
    Last edited by BOBC; Feb-28-2018 at 05:53.

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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    It is landscape lighting and general lighting that have changed, (and I think the shift to dx11 too?) and these affect the skins.
    The colours have changed, and it shows more on some aircraft than others (Ju87 especially) with the new game. No intentional change has been made though, it is a result of the other changes (to shaders etc.). It is very likely it will change again with TF5, even though no colour change is planned/intended. The shaders will no doubt be changed, and the game lighting altered to accommodate the harsh desert light. All these things alter how the game looks.
    Cheers
    Last edited by major_setback; Feb-28-2018 at 06:51.
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2673&dateline=1390351127

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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Ohms View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BOBC
    Is this a known thing, that flyers of CoD BoB in fact dont want BoB ? best as the subject of a separate thread as I wish to keep this thread about colour engine change.



    BOBC
    We who have been playing this game since 2011 have played it almost to its death, i have 2500 hrs plus flying the same planes on the same map and are looking for a new challenge. TFS have done a wonderful job keeping our interest for so long. This game was was a starting point for the game engine not the one and only that it turned into. i take offense at your above remark , the real battle lasted 6 months or so not 6 years thats why i would like TFS TO LOOK AHEAD NOT BACK.
    Why do you take offense while hes defending himself that your are talking offtopic.
    Why do you think that his question, just a simple kind question, is slowing down developement of the new theatre?
    Why do you change it to negativity.
    What has his kindly asking about colours to do with you wanting a theatre?
    Why do you change his thread into your thread?
    Why do you think you are "we".

    Why are people always taking offense when hes just defending his OP?!?!
    Please stop guys, be kind and don't take everything as offense, also don't take my post as offense.


    Sorry BOBC for being offtopic.
    Last edited by Tibsun; Feb-28-2018 at 07:35.

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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    To answer Your original question SKIN AWAY BOBC! I'm just shooting from the hip here. But TFS has made the changes to the color engine. notice the terrain color changes that Kling and others have worked on? I'm sure that's what they were telling you to hold off for. Skin away ! We all realize that different people play the game for different reasons. You make alot of posts in this forum...alot. 98% of them have nothing to do with actually playing the game Itself. It just seems like you're more interested in making screenshots and such. ( Sorry if I'm wrong, but that's how it looks to me and I'm sure many of the other players on the forums.) That's the reason you have gotten the short answers. Man alot of questions about off the wall stuff that I'm sure means a lot to you...but the rest of the community doesn't care too much about to be honest. TFS only has so much time and resources to devote to certain things. I'm not saying the way you enjoy the sim is wrong. We all have wants and wishes. ( I wish someday to see ground crew annimated and walking around..but I know that it might not ever happen. Like Ohmes said.. so many of us have over 2000+ hours flying over the channel..and are excited to see TFS moving on to a different theater. BOB isn't being tossed in the backseat..all the new planes and content created will work with it as well. ( Even if not historically correct. I'm sure improvements will also still be made, it just won't be the main focus anymore. We try and answer as many questions for TFS that we can, because we know that if they are constantly on the forums answering a million questions ( not just by you..and not just ATAG forums or Facebook. Then they aren't working on 5.0 or more important possibly spending time with family or Loved ones. That's why answers are short. Like I said skin away..and keep us posted on your progress. S!
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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Hello BOBC

    I think what you have in 4.5 is what you have for the BOB era of the game (as Setback says). Because of the way it is it will never conform to a format that is transferrable from the paint programme to the game. Everything will always be a best compromise.

    I remember you asking about thec olours and being advised to wait so I totally understand why you are asking now. I believe Major Setback provides you with the most "horses mouth" answer.

    The game is what it is and I would imagine the majority of online and offline players wouldn't not know or really be too concerned about the colours being totally accurate. Those of us who skin just try to get something close too for the general conditional in the game. If you look at the jpegs of Setback's latest work you will see that this is skill in its own right and that tones still vary in appearance from type to type. Different colour settings on the monitors etc will always alter what someone else sees.

    It would be great to see what someone with your interest can make of the skins and the game as it is. You clearly care passionately about them. I would encourage you to try and to post your work on the forums and in the downloads section. There are too few skinners around these days.

    All the best

    BOO
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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    You'll always be adjusting, there is no end game. Keep the original .psd and never merge the layers. Every color should be on its own layer with mask. Then if you need to make a change it is an easy a quick adjustment.

    We may change a shader that affects the colors, or you may get a different monitor which affects the colors.

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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Hi ,
    Thanks for the support and answering the thread guys…
    Boo…I think what you have in 4.5 is what you have for the BOB era of the game (as Setback says). Because of the way it is it will never conform to a format that is transferrable from the paint programme to the game. Everything will always be a best compromise.
    So no point in waiting, we have arrived, with further changes expected. rgb photoshop screen = rgb sim is not something to wait for. Now I know.

    Major_Setback It is landscape lighting and general lighting that have changed, (and I think the shift to dx11 too?) and these affect the skins.
    The colours have changed, and it shows more on some aircraft than others (Ju87 especially) with the new game. No intentional change has been made though, it is a result of the other changes (to shaders etc.).
    It is very likely it will change again with TF5, even though no colour change is planned/intended. The shaders will no doubt be changed, and the game lighting altered to accommodate the harsh desert light. All these things alter how the game looks.
    Cheers
    Ok, Thus I shall get on and skin and be prepared to make changes in TF5.
    Had hoped for rgb screen =same in sim, such would have make skinning easy, as such I shall continue creating flying capturing tweaking repeat the process etc, until I discover what turns into what.
    Added to the ‘fun’ is the fact that

    The colours have changed, and it shows more on some aircraft than others (Ju87 especially)
    As you said a while ago, each aircraft displays the same colour differently, that is not good news for skinners who like it easy and like to establish an rgb for a certain rlm colour, but hey ho….its CoD as 1lokos says !

    69th Spiritus Mortem...Keep the original .psd and never merge the layers.
    Definitely, rule no 1, keep all files fully intelligent and editable.

    Thank you for the kind words Boo,

    Boo...It would be great to see what someone with your interest can make of the skins and the game as it is. You clearly care passionately about them. I would encourage you to try and to post your work on the forums and in the downloads section. There are too few skinners around these days.
    It will take time, I get short moments in time, but need to get into 5th gear quick when those moments come, and end up burning the midnight oil and some whilst the creative juices are flowing !!!. I need to suss what Cod does with colours and get a set per aircraft I am happy with, that recreate them as seen in 1940. I will be making them available, thats the plan, I want to fly and fight but also capture stills at the same time that look real. I am and always have been into the look and feel of the real BoB, Larrys assistance recently with 109s at dispersal in the trees is photogenic CoD BoB at its best.

    I had to work with the 256 colour palette for Rowan BoB and thats a challenge compared to 16.5 million for rgb, I ended up getting more than 256 colours to use by combining colours in a regular matrix like a chess board which when viewed normally became another colour free of the school colours of a 256 palette, this produced the first set of decent rlm Luft colours at the time and gave us at last decent looking aircraft. This will be a similar challenge as a few more G's in an RGB mix and the colour can go totally 'off piste'.

    BOBC

    P.S Boo there is a song 'me and you and a dog named boo' is that the logo ?

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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Boo is the 64lb of 4 year old Black Labrador Retriever currently cuddled up to me in a very snowy Lincoln. His Sunday name is Booster and he was named in honour of the mascot of "Bachelor's Baby", a B24 that came down in the Welsh Mountains in WW2. Booster and most, if not all the crew perished. My current understanding is that locals gave the dog a grave after his remains were left by the recovery crews. He is also remembered on the memorial erected later. I think there is something very touching and proper about that. Booster was named after the B24s superchargers.

    Its also a reference to Goxhill aerodrome. We got Boo from a farm right next to it. Goxhill at one point stationed P38s there with their own highly noticeable superchargers or "boosters"

    But I think somewhere in there HAS to me some memory of that song

    As for the avatar or logo its just an image of a miserable old dog (me) that I found on google that also used the Manchester Worker Bee - Declaring one's links to the city was briefly very popular after the Arena Bombing. Something I am as guilty of any anyone else. After the furore it just seemed to fit.

    Good look with your work BOBC - I really look forward to seeing your labours..

    S!

    BOO
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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOBC View Post


    As you said a while ago, each aircraft displays the same colour differently, that is not good news for skinners who like it easy and like to establish an rgb for a certain rlm colour, but hey ho….its CoD as 1lokos says !


    We have included some skins without codes or markings to make it easier for those who want to make their own skins.


    List of new skins in TF4.5 (generic = no codes or roundels):

    Beaufighter skins in TF 4.5:

    Coastal Command, Grey/Slate/Sky, code ND-C
    Nightfighter (?) Grey/Green/Black, red codes NG-O, (ca. 1942, later roundel types)
    Nightfighter RO-B, Black, later roundels and 'Bambi' deer logo on the nose (ca. 1942)
    Nightfighter NG-R, Black, with the number '3' on engine cowlings
    Nightfighter NG-F, Black
    Nightfighter WM-P, Black with logo 'Birmingham Civil Defence' on the nose
    Nightfighter WM-E, Black
    Green/Brown camouflage, codes ZK-A, ZK-B, ZK-C, ZK-D, ZK-E, ZK-F, ZK-G, ZK-H, PN-W

    Generic Beaufighter skins in TF 4.5
    Grey/Green/Black
    Grey/Green/Sky
    Green/Brown/Sky
    (Darker) Green/Brown/Sky
    Grey/Slate/Sky
    Black

    Blenheim skins in TF 4.5:

    Blenheim I:
    Brown/Green/Sky
    Brown/Green/Black
    P Code (Slate/Grey/Sky) Fleet Air Arm colours

    Blenheim IF:
    Green/Brown/Sky
    QYF code Green/Brown/Sky (ship artwork)

    Blenheim INF:
    Brown/Green/Black
    RXM code (Brown/Green/Black) (hawk emblem)

    Blenheim IV:
    Brown/Green/Black
    Brown/Green/Sky
    Slate/Grey/sky
    Grey/Green/Sky code YHX, generic (no codes)

    Blenheim IVF:
    Brown/Green/Sky
    Slate/Grey/Sky
    code EEH (Slate/Grey/Sky)

    Blenheim IVNF:
    Brown/Green/Black
    code FDF Brown/Green/Black (snake emblem)

    plus the codes (Brown/Green camo) V6028 GB-D, and code KRH for the Blenheim IV


    Hurricane skins
    :

    Hurricane I DT-H 257 sqn Cotishall 1940. half-black underside, 'Burma flag' artwork/emblem
    Hurricane KWZ
    Hurricane (Joker emblem) Code DX-? Serial nr W9200 Joker artwork/emblem

    Spitfire skins:

    Spitfire ZWC Grey/Green photo recon aircraft (camera non functional, just painted on the skin)
    Spitfire grey/green generic (no markings or camera ports)
    Spitfire AHZ 'Fist' artwork/emblem

    Wellington:

    Brown/green squiggle sided camouflage
    Brown/green straight sided camo (demarcation line moved high up on side compared to original default)


    Bf110C-4B and C-6
    .

    (Bf110 C-6) G9EH with Black, with Nose Emblem
    (Bf110C-4B) 2NRH with Nose Emblem
    Bf110C-4B mottle generic
    Bf110C-6 green/dk-green non-mottle generic
    Bf110C-6 black generic

    New default skins were created for:
    Wellington
    Spitfire
    Hurricane
    Beaufighter
    Blenheims (all marks)
    Bf110C-6
    Bf110C-4B

    In addition to skins with custom codes nearly all above skin variations (ex. grey/green, grey/slate) have a version with no markings at all (no codes or roundels) as well as a version with only roundels (so users can add their own codes).
    Last edited by major_setback; Feb-28-2018 at 15:59.
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2673&dateline=1390351127

    Principle skinner
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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by major_setback View Post
    We have included some skins without codes or markings to make it easier for those who want to make their own skins.
    Hi,
    strangely enough I have just been reading Dog1's post
    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ad.php?t=26581
    and in it Boo says:-
    The best thing I can suggest here is to wait until you can access some of the default skins in 4.5 that Major Setback has produced and sample the colour tones off them as a starting point.
    I revisit my post here and hey presto you have pre-posted what I was about to ask

    I presume these are in the 4.5 folders, I shall go seek, great idea.

    update...I have now been to:-
    C:\Users\BOBC\Documents\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover\PaintSchemes\Skins\Bf-110C-6 but 'folder is empty'.

    My other two there are suffix MOD and suffix vanilla.

    Blitz is the non suffix one., also no Bf110C6 in suffix MOD anyway so I am in the right place.

    Blenheim 1 try there again same , it says 'this folder is empty'. no doubt ditto rest.

    By the way in skinners section I have posted on your rivets files links being dead.

    Boo, fantastic story and not as I thought, but far better, a snowy Lincoln and a snuggle with Boo, perfick

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL9i1HmxPpU

    now why dont we hear songs with variety anymore, human songs, stories etc.

    BOBC
    Last edited by BOBC; Feb-28-2018 at 18:30.

  30. #19
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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Hello BOBC

    The skins Setback refers to are located in the games' main folder - This can be found on the Drive you installed Steam. In the main Steam Folder look for "Steamapps/common/IL2 Sturmovik Cliffs Of Dover Blitz/Paintschemes/Skins

    Some aircraft have two folders that are named slightly differently (for instance the Beau 1F) so if one folder is empty, the skins will be in the other.

    Only the skins that you create need to be put in the My Docs folders although Im petty sure you can put them in either. At least in the My Docs location they are easier to back up.

    Cheers

    BOO
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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Just to say in support of BOBC, I'm aware that many players of CLOD are primarily interested in on-line competitive combat etc and don't care a great deal about the historical details.

    However, one of the great strengths of Oleg Maddox's original IL2 Sturmovik, and CLOD, is its realism. Certainly part of the original dream is a high degree of historical accuracy, and that is a major reason why many people like these sims so much. I'm sure a significant number of players are into SP, creating skins and so on - just look at how many fans Larry has of his amazing and technically accurate screenshots.

    To suggest that most people aren't interested in the historical accuracy I'm sure is not really true, and if TF are able to continue improving that side of CLOD along with everything else then it can only help to bring more people on board.

    BOBC's approach to CLOD is just as valid as the multi-player side (I'm personally into both).

  32. Likes Tibsun, BOO liked this post
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    Re: Is the colour engine redesign in 4.5 Blitz or still awaited in 5.0 ?

    Hi Boo and Carbolicus,

    Thank you for the location advice and for the support. Carbolicus...I now know there are two keen BoB historical accurate players

    If there is a thread where BoB and non BoB desires are discussed I wouldnt mind seeing a link to it.
    I bit of market research is a good thing and as ongoing development brings folk into CoD they may start in BoB then go non BoB or vice versa so to have both sides with an ongoing development is good if manpower allows. Its the getting at the hard-coded data and skinning it that the average skinner cant do, but maybe a coder can show how its done, then take what we create and drop it back in.

    I want to fix the absence of the well known Belfast Truss hangers which no BoB sim should be without, a raid on Kenley needs, also Hawkinge etc, I can do the CAD, just need to know the rules of size, polygons etc and skinning method. Then I occupy my own time and deliver the results, keeping others time to a minimum. Best I post this as a new thread, though with all focus on N Africa I might not get the access method given me. I get excited about Englands green and pleasant land being defended, I can relate BoB events to places I know and care about, sand doesnt do it for me.

    Cheers

    BOBC

    Quote Originally Posted by carbolicus View Post
    Just to say in support of BOBC, I'm aware that many players of CLOD are primarily interested in on-line competitive combat etc and don't care a great deal about the historical details.

    However, one of the great strengths of Oleg Maddox's original IL2 Sturmovik, and CLOD, is its realism. Certainly part of the original dream is a high degree of historical accuracy, and that is a major reason why many people like these sims so much. I'm sure a significant number of players are into SP, creating skins and so on - just look at how many fans Larry has of his amazing and technically accurate screenshots.

    To suggest that most people aren't interested in the historical accuracy I'm sure is not really true, and if TF are able to continue improving that side of CLOD along with everything else then it can only help to bring more people on board.

    BOBC's approach to CLOD is just as valid as the multi-player side (I'm personally into both).
    Last edited by BOBC; Mar-10-2018 at 11:49.

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