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Thread: Aircraft and contact dots disappearing

  1. #31
    ATAG Member ATAG_Oskar's Avatar
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    Re: Aircraft and contact dots disappearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Baffin View Post
    Yes, but how does the 1080p TV display handle a quarter of a pixel? Does it disappear or does it display at a full pixel?
    You could take the colour value of the blue sky behind the plane (143,174,214) and superimpose a black (0,0,0) square over the centre quarter. This would give a colour value of 107,131,161 for the whole pixel, a slightly darker shade of blue.

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  3. #32
    Supporting Member Tibsun's Avatar
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    Re: Aircraft and contact dots disappearing

    I found it interesting when targets gets rendered in at all,

    so I used this code in the console


    Code:
    mp_dotrange DOT 0.005
    which is the least range for this command (5 meters)

    I compared both 4k and 1080
    I screenshot all standard viewangles again 30° 60° and 90°.


    In all cases, 4k native or DSR on 1080 monitor and also at 4k screenshot fullscreen on 1080 monitor, I could confirm this result:
    Code:
                 1080           2160           
    90°           2                3
    60°           2                4
    30°           4                5
    Because of the rendering or flickering aliasing issue, you can add 1 extra target to the results in both resolutions, up to a maximum of 6 targets.
    As these targets are moving and also you are moving, you can kind of see 1 target more or less quite good.
    The smallest target therfore is at around 6 - 7km in a 1 pixel shape in 4k, but more or less not even visible in 1080 (without the dotrange)
    In all cases the 4k version won in range and sharpness and size.

    You can test it yourself, on the fly, just put in the code with a value of 0.005 to 25 for a maximum of 25km and see what happens.

    For the aliasing flickering targets, seems to be a aliasing issue, as I mentioned before... not sure if this is really more visible due to the new patch and visuals, but surely it was there before.
    Last edited by Tibsun; Mar-02-2018 at 12:40.

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  5. #33
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    Re: Aircraft and contact dots disappearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Tibsun View Post
    Not it's not a 3.5km bubble, it looks like it is, but it is 7km bubble for fighter (and max 15km bubble for big fighter, bomber and ships) in MP ATAG server. I'm pretty sure.
    That's why you should try out the mission file to count the 7th contact and compare the size or rendering in SP and MP.
    Wrong!

    You are still " off course " unfortunately...let's try another attempt to let you understand what I mean....I'm sorry but what you have stated above has nothing to do with what I intend in this particular case! ( or rather the topic argument )

    In patch 4.53, by TFS, the " high quality textures bubble " ( let's call it in this way so should be more correct in respect of the term " visual bubble " and it can possibly give you a better idea about what I really mean ) has been set a lot more shorter, in respect to the previous patch, to attempt to reduce the lag experienced during multiplayer games.

    The " high quality textures bubble " at which I'm referring should have a range of about 3-3,5 km max ( estimated value, be clear ) and not certainly 7-15 km!

    If you don't believe me make a very simple test by yourself...Fly, while online, over a city with the game video settings all maxed out and note at what distance the buildings are rendered using high quality textures...I'm sure you will notice immediately how the range seems to be something like 3-3,5 km from your plane and not certainly 7-15 km as you stated ( ...and you can't imagine how much I wish it was so, believe me! )

    The distance of about 15 km that you quoted in your comment is, instead, approximately, the max display distance where the aircraft dot\objects dot starts to be displayed\rendered by the game engine using, at least, 1 pixel. The only link that this distance has with the rendering textures bubbles used by the game ( see below for general references about them ) is that at about 15 km distance the game starts to displays the contact using a low resolution texture. ( be clear, this is a super general and a super brief explanation only provided to give an idea about how the game engine works...in reality the discourse it a lot more complicated than this! )

    That's why, I suppose, many players report that enabling the AA seems to reduce their spotting capabilities ( due to the fact that the AA sharpen the texture edges rendering them less rough so of consequence less squared so more difficult to be spotted, at least accordingly to what they say ).

    *A small off-topic personal comment linked to the AA: Personally said, based on my experience and, especially, based on the PCs that I've owned until now ( because, as you know, what you can experience on one PC can provide absolutely different results on another PC built in the exact same way so what I may have experienced until now could be totally different for another PC user ) I consider this thing of not using the AA to improve the spotting ability only a mere urban legend and a very misleading thing.
    I've noted in fact that you get a slightly better contact visibility, disabling the AA, only on PCs using a very low maximum screen resolution ( for example like on the laptop that I was using previously that had a max screen resolution of 1366 x 768 pixels ) due to the pixels rendered more squared but on PCs using a good and higher resolutions the only effect that you get is that you will see the pixel more squared ( so pretty ugly in my opinion ) without gaining any " spotting capability improvements ".
    For example on my actual PC I see the contacts a lot more easily using the AA than without it ( at least in 1080p ).
    So far this is what I've noted\experienced about the AA usage ( but as said this applies only to what I have experienced until now and it do not constitutes a " ok for all PC users " rule ).


    Coming back on the topic argument...Please do not confuse the dot visibility range\parameters\settings with the rendering bubbles...they are two separate and distinct things! ( or better said, they are linked but not in the way that you seem to intend )

    With the term " high quality textures bubble " I intend the bubble around your plane where the textures are loaded in high quality.
    CloD, as far as I know, uses 3 kinds of textures or " rendering bubbles " if you prefer ( said in a very brief way ): High quality textures ( Close distance objects; 0-4 km distance ), Medium quality textures ( Medium distance objects; 4-10 km distance ), Low quality textures ( Far objects; 10 or more km distance ). Please note that the kilometres values indicated here, beside, are not the correct ones used by the game, I have just wrote them, as general reference, to give you a general idea about how the texture system should work.

    Said this, my suspicion and presentiment, is that when using higher screen resolutions ( so screen resolutions above 1080p to understand us ) there seem to be something not working as planned ( I've mentioned the 4K screen resolution in the initial post because is the one that I'm actually attempting to use but as noted reading other comments present here this seems to apply also to other high screen resolutions above 1080p ) because the problem is not about the max dot visibility range or about the distance at which the aircraft dot\object dot is displayed but about the fact that outside the " high quality textures bubble " ( Close distance objects; 0-4 km distance ) nothing seems to be rendered at all by the game engine when using such high screen resolutions.
    My suspicion is that the game engine, for some motives, seems to be not capable of handling correctly the textures out of the high quality textures bubble ( Close distance objects; 0-4 km distance ) and due to this it does not render at all any aircraft, ship or any other object ( not part of the default landscape\background ).

    The problem is not linked to the fact that I'm not able to spot the aircraft, ship or any other object contacts due to the fact that they are rendered on the screen in a more smaller way\pixels ( as I suspect you are guessing looking and your comments ) but due to the fact that they are not rendered at all outside the " high quality textures bubble " ( Close distance objects; 0-4 km distance ) by the game engine!

    Said in brief...how can you spot something that is not rendered at all by the game engine? ( I hope that this example could give you the idea of what the problem really is ).


    Why I'm suspecting that there is something wrong about this?

    Because:

    - I flew online with the precise intent to try to understand\note what was going on wrong and I've noticed it happening in front of my eyes several times ( in fact always after that I've started to understand what the " problem " was and after that I've understood at what I have to look at )

    - On Ts3 many other players playing in higher screen resolutions ( above 1080p said in brief ) are reporting the exact same problem as mine ( so it's not only a problem liked in some way to my PC and stop...otherwise I would not have opened a topic on the forum if it was only a my PC problem )

    - The issue it's easy to be reproduced ( I need simply to increase the screen resolution above 1080p and record a video\track of it happening )

    - Using a screen resolution of 1080p ( not yet tested lower screen resolutions than this one ) nothing happens and everything is rendered as per normal under every circumstances ( and this confirms that it's not a " my PC only " problem otherwise it would have happened also when using the 1080p screen resolution if it was something wrong related to my video drivers, video card, OP, etc )

    - When the CLoD game engine was built, I presume, the screen resolutions above 1080p ( that nowadays are quite common instead ) were not even a " possibility " in the minds of the CLoD programmers so maybe the game engine could be not suited to support these higher screen resolutions ( at least not without some kind of intervention on the game source code )


    I hope that this should clarify a bit more what I mean and what the problem I'm trying to report here really is!
    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Mar-03-2018 at 10:58.
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  6. #34
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    Re: Aircraft and contact dots disappearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Werner " Blauer Teufel " Mölders View Post
    Wrong!

    You are still " off course " unfortunately...let's try another attempt to let you understand what I mean....I'm sorry but what you have stated above has nothing to do with what I intend in this particular case! ( or rather the topic argument )

    In patch 4.53, by TFS, the " high quality textures bubble " ( let's call it in this way so should be more correct in respect of the term " visual bubble " and it can possibly give you a better idea about what I really mean ) has been set a lot more shorter, in respect to the previous patch, to attempt to reduce the lag experienced during multiplayer games.

    Snip


    I hope that this should clarify a bit more what I mean and what the problem I'm trying to report here really is!
    I thought this thread is about spotting targets, not spotting buildings?! Sorry if I confused your "Bubble" in your last comment. But in you OP you clearly where talking about targets.

    I will now talk about target visual range rendering of fighters, not objects.
    I've got 3 renderings here with my last test. There is this dotrange, the black distant rendering and then these colored rendering of it.

    For the size of a fighter with 2x1m fuselage with my test I could see that the dotrange is rendered at all circumstances inside the black rendering, 1 - 25km range depending on settings.
    For the black, see results of my previous test. 30° about max ~ 5km
    For the colored one probably less than <1km
    I want to remind you, that once only dotrange dot is visible past 6km, it's the size of a single 4k pixel... after 6km the advantage for this is probably on the 1080 resolution, if using the same size monitor.
    Oh and btw, the dotrange in ATAG multiplayer is fully 25km, just for your info.. I confirmed this too.


    I might not understand why you changed the topic towards other visuals than planes, but ok.

    So now for your quality visual range, try using SSAO in video settings if you haven't turned it on, maybe now your objects show up, hopefully.
    EDIT: I had missing objects with SSAO turned off at 4k resolution.
    Last edited by Tibsun; Mar-03-2018 at 11:26.

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  8. #35
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    Re: Aircraft and contact dots disappearing

    I've updated the Bug Tracker issue with something that I've found that maybe could be of help for TFS:

    Maybe I have found something that could point out in the correct direction to solve this issue. I was reading a discussion about the dots rendering distance on the IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles forum ( LINK: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic...comment-626551 ) and this statement caught my attention:

    Quote:

    " The way the LOD"s/scaling works, the engine needs a minimum of pixels to accurately render the object at that distance, if it lacks the resolution, you don't see the object "

    If the IL-2 Blitz engine works in a similar way maybe the problem with the 4K resolution could be related to the fact that the game engine of IL-2 Blitz needs a more higher number of minimum of pixels to display correctly the things in 4K resolution outside the player's aircraft visual bubble.

    The same thread suggested a possible solution ( Quote ):

    " To mitigate this, you'd need to implement the old style, "fake large dot" method to account the missing resolution and then everyone sees the same thing more or less at a longer, per-determined distance "

    It's only a guess because I do not know how the IL-2 Blitz engine precisely works but maybe it could be a useful hint for our TFS experts so I've decided to report it, just in the case it could be of help in solving this issue.

    LINK TO BUG TRACKER ISSUE: https://www.tfbt.nuvturais.de/issues/1068 ( ← Clickable Link! )

    If you agree with the arguments treated in this thread do not forget to vote it in the Bug Tracker!!! Thanks!!!
    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Sep-23-2018 at 12:57.
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