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Thread: Using the Luftwaffe Revi C 12/D Gunsight

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    Supporting Member CarlMarks's Avatar
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    Using the Luftwaffe Revi C 12/D Gunsight

    This recent video from the Air Combat Tutorial Library channel contains excellent content regarding the Revi gun sight and how to use it to judge distance and angle off in combat for improved deflection shooting. This short video was a helpful resource for brushing up on my aerial gunnery and highly recommend checking it out.



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    Supporting Member SharkBait's Avatar
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    Re: Using the Luftwaffe Revi C 12/D Gunsight

    This guy is amazing!

    I do wonder if the specifics of the rule apply in CloD (e.g., the angle off rings on the gun sight). Of course, the core concepts are universal I'm sure, but I feel like CloD generally requires more lead than in BoX. Mostly since the ballistics for CloD cannon rounds seem to be "heavier" (bullets drop faster). What is your impression?
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    Supporting Member CarlMarks's Avatar
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    Re: Using the Luftwaffe Revi C 12/D Gunsight

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkBait View Post
    This guy is amazing!

    I do wonder if the specifics of the rule apply in CloD (e.g., the angle off rings on the gun sight). Of course, the core concepts are universal I'm sure, but I feel like CloD generally requires more lead than in BoX. Mostly since the ballistics for CloD cannon rounds seem to be "heavier" (bullets drop faster). What is your impression?
    I agree that the 20 mm rounds feel like they have a slightly different trajectory in CLoD, but I think this holds enough truth to apply to either game. I tend to look at it as a recommended point of aim for each scenario since these rings will vary a bit based on relative speed, and then I make any adjustments if necessary.

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    Combat pilot rel4y's Avatar
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    Re: Using the Luftwaffe Revi C 12/D Gunsight

    CloDs MGFF(/M) (109 E-3 and E4) cannon ballistics vs BoX (109 F-2 and up) MG151 should be very different, as the MG151 is of much higher velocity. Also standard convergence will differ between BoX and CloD, with CloD having the more refined system. If you want to directly compare, one should compare to the BoM E-7 at same convergence which has the same cannons in the same configuration.
    Last edited by rel4y; Apr-13-2018 at 12:51.

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    Supporting Member CarlMarks's Avatar
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    Re: Using the Luftwaffe Revi C 12/D Gunsight

    Quote Originally Posted by rel4y View Post
    CloDs MGFF(/M) (109 E-3 and E4) cannon ballistics vs BoX (109 F-2 and up) MG151 should be very different, as the MG151 is of much higher velocity. Also standard convergence will differ between BoX and CloD, with CloD having the more refined system. If you want to directly compare, one should compare to the BoM E-7 at same convergence which has the same cannons in the same configuration.
    Using this in CloD, I can assure you that the difference is not a very significant factor, especially when you are less than 300 meters away (what I consider cannon range). These rings are a means of approximating aim based on observations and estimations made by the pilot about target airspeed and angle off, and the values constantly change as the situation changes. Since you have no means of accurately measuring these exterior variables from your own cockpit, it's pure guesswork (ex., what if the plane you read as 20 degrees off is actually more like 25?), and this system is just intended to make sure that it is at least educated guesswork.

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    Supporting Member SharkBait's Avatar
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    Re: Using the Luftwaffe Revi C 12/D Gunsight

    Agreed with all the points above.

    I guess in my experience, I've had to lead a bit more than what is shown in the video to get successful hits in CloD - which means the mental "rings" in my CloD sight are a bit larger. This is fine as long as I know that and don't lose sight (no pun intended) of the overarching concepts driving these "rules of thumb", which remain helpful despite differences in specifics. It's good to hear about how others' experiences compare to mine.

    A couple other interesting differences between the two games:
    1. I'm not sure which Mk the sight is in the CloD 109s, but they don't have tick marks (other than the ones in the E4/B). I would assume that the radius is the same number of mils, though, so maybe not really a difference.
    2. The convergence I personally use for my wing-mounted guns is H: 200 / V: 400. Since most of the 109s in BoX have nose-mounted cannons, I would assume that some people (maybe including the creator of the video) may use convergences that are further. If we assume that the game matches vertical convergence (i.e., 500 convergence means H: 500 / V: 500), the bullets for a 500m convergence in BoX would be slightly higher at ~200m (effective firing range) than what I'm using in CloD - which has the effect of providing slightly more lead even if the enemy aircraft is placed on the same spot/"ring" on the gun sight.***


    ***In case it isn't clear what I mean by this, see the "Side view of trajectories" diagrams:
    Untitled-3.jpg
    Last edited by SharkBait; Apr-13-2018 at 17:57.
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    Flight Equipment || Stick: Logitech Extreme 3D Pro / Throttle: CH Pro Throttle / Pedals: MFG Crosswind / View: Track IR 5

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