Spitfire Flaps & Another Question?

[kronovan]

I did some forum searching on the Spitfire and flaps, but I could only find posts that were more than a few years old and they focused on take off. I haven't given a thorough read to every Team Fusion patch, but it sounds like what was being discussed in those threads may have been corrected.

Anyhow, the behavior I'm noticing in Blitz is that when I deploy flaps in the Spitfire (believe it's all models) on approach, it causes a significant amount of fluttering or shaking. It seems to do that even if I get my speed down as low as is possibly safe. As well, it's very difficult to maintain a constant speed once they're deployed. I'm only deploying them during landings (have been able to take off without them deployed) and it's challenging to land without stalling. Meanwhile, I don't experience this with the Hurricane, Beaufighter or Blenheim; albeit Blenhem seems to have it's own, particular issues. I'm wondering if this accurate modeling and there on purpose?

Another question I have is about the Fire Machine Guns, Fire Cannon and Fire Machine Guns+Cannon mappable commands. I have Fire Machine Guns and Fire Cannons mapped to my joystick, along with Drop Ordnance. My overall HOTAS setup is limitted on mappable buttons and I'm particularly trying limit what I have mapped to my stick. So my question; is the Fire Machine Guns+Cannon for a specific gun configuration/loadout, or can you achieve the same by just simultaneously pressing the Fire Machine Guns and Fire Cannon buttons that those commands are mapped to? Or will doing that, cause one of the firing mechanism to cancel out?

[Karaya]

Another question I have is about the Fire Machine Guns, Fire Cannon and Fire Machine Guns+Cannon mappable commands. I have Fire Machine Guns and Fire Cannons mapped to my joystick, along with Drop Ordnance. My overall HOTAS setup is limitted on mappable buttons and I'm particularly trying limit what I have mapped to my stick. So my question; is the Fire Machine Guns+Cannon for a specific gun configuration/loadout, or can you achieve the same by just simultaneously pressing the Fire Machine Guns and Fire Cannon buttons that those commands are mapped to? Or will doing that, cause one of the firing mechanism to cancel out?

Both do the same but of course pressing only 1 button is more convenient than having to press 2 buttons at the same time. MGs+Cannons is only relevant for the Bf109s and Bf110s. The Beaufighter does not have seperate triggers so it's either all or nothing.

[1lokos]

Spitfire flaps is to be used only on landings, if you are stalling when drop flaps is because are in too low speed/out of trimming.

An button for fire Machine Guns and another for fire Cannons when pressed simultaneous do the same that button for "Fire Machine guns + Cannon" - that only few planes use, e.g. some late war heavy armed Fw 190, but none of CloD planes, but this command became standard in flight games for gameplay purpose.

In many cases fire MG and Cannons together is waste of ammo, due different ballistic's.

Many gamers use this command for the second stage of trigger of their F-16'ish sticks - that IRL use first stage for activate camera or systems, not fire weapons.

[Tibsun]

I did some forum searching on the Spitfire and flaps, but I could only find posts that were more than a few years old and they focused on take off. I haven't given a thorough read to every Team Fusion patch, but it sounds like what was being discussed in those threads may have been corrected.

Anyhow, the behavior I'm noticing in Blitz is that when I deploy flaps in the Spitfire (believe it's all models) on approach, it causes a significant amount of fluttering or shaking. It seems to do that even if I get my speed down as low as is possibly safe. As well, it's very difficult to maintain a constant speed once they're deployed. I'm only deploying them during landings (have been able to take off without them deployed) and it's challenging to land without stalling. Meanwhile, I don't experience this with the Hurricane, Beaufighter or Blenheim; albeit Blenhem seems to have it's own, particular issues. I'm wondering if this accurate modeling and there on purpose?

Another question I have is about the Fire Machine Guns, Fire Cannon and Fire Machine Guns+Cannon mappable commands. I have Fire Machine Guns and Fire Cannons mapped to my joystick, along with Drop Ordnance. My overall HOTAS setup is limitted on mappable buttons and I'm particularly trying limit what I have mapped to my stick. So my question; is the Fire Machine Guns+Cannon for a specific gun configuration/loadout, or can you achieve the same by just simultaneously pressing the Fire Machine Guns and Fire Cannon buttons that those commands are mapped to? Or will doing that, cause one of the firing mechanism to cancel out?

As you might have noticed, Spits flaps are very radical with the up/down switch, wich brings the flaps into extreme angles.
I believe they aren't made for take-off, they are made to land with the purpose to bleed alot of energy and keep the nose down to have eyes on the runway.
With the radical high angle it's possible that this causes aswell alot of turbulences.

However, FM are not perfect yet as you may have noticed, it takes forever to land even if you slowed down for landing.
The same reason why you've got a hard time braking the plane with idling engine.
Clearly visible if you are braking while turning the engine off by switching the fuel cock off, you all of a sudden come to very quick stop.

[Baffin]

The "Fluttering and Shaking" you describe occurs in virtually all flapped airplanes at full extension and is usually referred to as "Buffet". It's simply the air flow separating from the lifting surfaces due to the extreme angle used for landing. See "Boundary Layer Separation" on Google for a more complete description.

As Tibsun said, the Spitfire flaps do more for visibility than stall protection. While the approach speed is generally a small 10 MPH less with flaps extended, they make a big difference in establishing a normal final approach picture.

If you enjoy flying for the simple joy of it, try gliding power-OFF at above 3000' (To give yourself time), at both 80 MPH and at the normal 90 MPH final approach airspeed. Trim the airplane hands-off at each speed and compare the pitch picture. Then repeat the test at 1800 RPM normal approach power (Prop Fine). Observe the pitch changes when Gear and Flaps are extended as well. It will quickly become obvious how much the pitch must increase during flaps UP operation at reduced speeds.

Finally, I recommend practicing NO Flaps approaches and landings to really appreciate how much the Spitfire flaps help keep the runway in sight. It also prepares you for the inevitable flaps up approach due to damage .

[kronovan]

Thanks for all the feedback - good food for thought. I just started the allied campaign and I'm not having any problem with buffeting (thanks for that Baffin, I'd forgot the correct term for the effect) when lowering landing flaps in my Hurricane Mk1. It's just specifically the Spitfire and yes I've noticed that the flaps down position for it is very pronounced. I've seem to be able to mitigate it a bit in the Spits, by briefly increasing throttle when flaps are 1st lowered and then then easing back to return to my desired speed.