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Thread: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

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    ATAG Member ATAG_JackMaxx's Avatar
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    suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    Guys
    some thoughts and what a capture the flag mission might look like.

    Each side would have two airfields (one front line and one rear). Each airfield would have some AAA and some facilities (oil tanks,hangers'static planes). The AAA (targets for fighters/fighter bombers) and Facilities (targets for fighter bombers/bombers) would all need to be destroyed to capture the field, once captured friendly AAA and facilities would spawn on the "turned" airfield and enemy now have three airfields to capture to win. AAA and Facilities that spawn on captured airfield might be 50% the original number to make it easier for enemy to recapture their field.

    your thought and suggestions would be welcome.

    A map maker would be needed as i have no idea how to build a map, I would help in any way I can.

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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    This could be a fun mission for the ATAG #2 server, maybe on the Steppe map.

    If people want it I will build it. Please weigh in with your opinion.

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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    If I am to be brutally honest (and I cant help it, its a gene or something), I would say "Hell NO!" Capture the flag is for COD, World of Tanks, Games with Elves in them and anime games with cats who's arms go up and down non stop. Has zero place in a Combat Flight Sim.

    There. I said it ..shoot me.


    Edit, well you should shoot me. Reading that again, it does sound a little harsh for a legitimate and innocent request. What I mean’t to say was....

    This on the face of it sounds like a good idea, however I am not confident the player base demographic which is largely made up of semi to full realism sim pilots would take full advantage of a capture the flag type map. Particularly at a time with such a low player base. One may argue that perhaps something different may be just the ticket to inspire additional interest, or, a polar argument may be made which suggests the perception from outside into the game, may be that its dynamics are changing in a desperate bid to attract a younger more numerous crowd. Something laced with doubtful success as that demographics interest changes much faster than the existing customer base.

    While no doubt providing an alternative method of play and possibly attractive for a time, its aesthetics of play would be radically different to the intent of the original game and may suggest a gameplay more familiar to a war thunder pilot.

    This in my esteemed opinion would detract from the charm of the game and create negatives out weighing perceived advantages.

    My alternate opinion only
    Last edited by TWC_Sp00k; Aug-25-2018 at 07:41.

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Ribbs's Avatar
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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    I think it's a great idea.
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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    I like this and the initiative JackMaXX !

    Great fun flying ground attack missions, and its the only way to win a map..
    But, maybe only 10% of us usually do this/think this is fun.
    -allready forgot how to land a Blenny..

    This might encourage more teamwork, but dogfighters always have the same sky.

    The difficult task for the mission builder imo is getting players mission oriented
    -and not "scaring" them away..

    The good thing with this idea is that U`r side will be "punished"
    bit by bit if you are not focused on the mission.

    Looks like a perfect server2 weekend task mission to start with..

    Thanks & stay on it Sir!
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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    Afraid im hard pushed to see any appeal in this.

    With only two airfields each and given the playerbase it'll be a "cap rush" Those motivated to bomb will be picked off whilst setting out, those rushing to defend will be running a gauntlet of vulching Rudlebums. In effect the mission will distil the advantages to an attacker in a big map into something akin to a mini-BOS. Netstats are already a PITA since you know whatsa coming. Watching spawn ins and having only two bases to consider is a vulcher's dream.

    Increase the flak around the fields to a level able to deter such vulching and you make attacking them almost impossible except from high alt level bombing which will be about as popular as an FBI tour party at the Whitehouse especially given most wont make it more then a few miles out of their base and few would be able to hit specific targets from 4500M.

    Then there is the available "means" - The Axis have level bombers, dive bombers, fast attackers capable of carrying heafty payloads and even 88s capable of dive bombing. The Allies have the Blenni, the Beau and some heath robinson Hurribombers. Adjusting tonnage to level the playing field is only half the battle with only one of the three attacking types have any rearward defence.

    In terms of teamwork, i can see the argument but I cant see it in practice. An organised raid takes time to muster, time ill afforded when the enemy are heading straight for you. This could be assisted by having further (non countable) airfields with Bombers only available but there is still the getting there and getting through. With a fighter bloackade in effect over just two targets the bombers would need decent fighter co-operation. My experience is that the Axis can do this but the Allies, even through there are some good organised squads, cannot. A fighter can make a mess of a bomber very quicky and in one pass. Whatever happerns thereafter in terms of a defence is usually moot since the bomber will go down. As said above, pinning targets from 4500M is hard for most, pinning them low down with fighters, AA and AAA wont be any easier.

    Taking up a slow fat bomber isnt like taking up a fighter- most of those committed to it get a kick from navigation, avoiding the enemy and getting home (not to be understimated). Rather than encourage the use of such, maps like this will IMO make them the most unattractive type to fly with people take fast heavy fighters for the usual fly, die, repeat performances already seen in every other map.

    Id vote for more regular missions over novelty maps any day. Too often since 4.5 a player will encounter the same map time and time over. This could just be my experience but more regular style missions couldn't hurt.

    All this said Im not a mission builder so, at the end of the day, its totally down to those that can.
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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    Good to see the ideas flowing here. Ultimately the RAF are going to find it harder on bombing/ground attack for the reasons Boo outlined above, it may be difficult to have a bombing-based capture system here.
    Incidentally, more missions and mission ideas are always welcome, whatever the type.

    And should anyone feel the need to do some mission building, there's always the FMB section here to check out: https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...splay.php?f=50


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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    Anything to do with bombers I'm up for as I am just not a fighter pilot
    Crimes I have even had certain fighter pilots ask me NOT to bomb an airfield as it would spoil all their fun


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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Knuckles View Post
    Anything to do with bombers I'm up for as I am just not a fighter pilot
    One day perhaps the lonley bomber dude will be able to drag a couple of AI friends along in MP to make their adventures a little less solitary.

    Sometimes when you're the only fat larry in the game making 3, 4 or even 5 trips to the same single target just to ty and do you thang is soul destroying.
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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    I was thinking of doing this on the Steppe map which is larger (65km x 65 km) and has nine airfields, none of which are closer that 20km from each other. If the sides were given an airfield in the corner plus two more selected at random that would give a much more reasonable scenario.

    For ground attack I'm thinking that you should have to take out the enemy AAA and vehicles to shut down the base rather than just dropping some tonnage within the perimeter. The ground targets can all be taken out by the MGs on your aircraft as well as bombs. This is not a level bombing situation but great for fighter-bombers.

    A far as volume of AAA fire goes I fly lots of SP ground attack with historical flak levels and it really adds to the fun. Is vulching impossible now on the ATAG server due to excess AAA? All of those missions have been adjusted to have historical flak levels.

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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    From the comments here I would say we can readily have the best of both worlds.

    Keep Server 1 as the sandbox, where missions are realistic and/or alternative history plausible. This has been the major appeal of this ATAG Server, where a whole squad can jump in or just a single player at any time.

    Server 2 is ideally suited for trying out new concepts. Nearly as robust capacity-wise as Server 1, Kiwi can set the realism to the same level as Server 1 (ie no icons). Also, I can create a dedicated Server 2 subforum where upcoming events can be promoted to maximize the number of participants and generate awareness & enthusiasm.

    Keep the great ideas flowing!



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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    It is great to see the interest and opinions expressed for and against my original post in this thread. my reasoning for the original suggestion was to encourage greater use of map objectives and strategies that the mapmakers invest so much time creating. another possibility for achieving this end might be to reintroduce the stats functionality and in addition to awarding scores for aircraft kills ,award scores for bombing targets and a relatively high score for being part of a team that wins the map. this might appeal to players competitive spirit.

    again as a PC illiterate I don't know how feasible this suggestion is, I'm just throwing the idea out there.......

    Two ideas in a week , I think I need to lie down

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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    Boo...I think you are missing the point. This style of play is going to lend more options to the smaller fighter bombers more than firing up a larger bomber I feel. Hit the targets as quick as possible and fight your way out. There has to be a way to force players to try and survive though and land back at base. Maybe some type of plane limit or a points countdown. I think each side needs 3 bases. With maybe the farthest on back being heavy bombers as to give them some type of protection. Plenty of manable AAA guns at each base as well. This will end up playing as a mad scramble over Hamble..but that's what we are looking for arent we? Down and dirty mud moving tug of war!
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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Ribbs View Post
    Boo...I think you are missing the point. This style of play is going to lend more options to the smaller fighter bombers more than firing up a larger bomber I feel. Hit the targets as quick as possible and fight your way out. There has to be a way to force players to try and survive though and land back at base. Maybe some type of plane limit or a points countdown. I think each side needs 3 bases. With maybe the farthest on back being heavy bombers as to give them some type of protection. Plenty of manable AAA guns at each base as well. This will end up playing as a mad scramble over Hamble..but that's what we are looking for arent we? Down and dirty mud moving tug of war!
    Perhaps, perhaps not. But what I think is irrelevant. Ive said my piece and dont intend to argue it further. A mission maker will build or they wont. If its built ATAG will run it. Some will like it, some would sooner the talent was spent augmenting the few ageing missions in circulation with variations or new ones. Others wont give a damn and just want stats and RR back. Since most cant make the time to learn to make missions, and I count myself in that number, no one can really knock the effort since its hardly competing for server time with a glut of other stuff.

    Crack on.
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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    First of all let me say..my ideal vision for CLOD is a persistent war like SOW or War Machine, but that's not everyones cup of tea. I also love the big wing events that you and DRock and others put on. I ALSO believe their is a niche for small events or side missions like this. I feel some people around here are deathly affraid of any other ideas than what are their personal visions of what they want this game to be, because they don't want it to become War Thunder or whatever game u want to insert. I don't feel that having an event or a mission running like this is going to convert this game that we love into something like that. We have declineing numbers on the server for alot of different reasons right now. Weather is nice..lots of family activities..other games. And so on. We can sit back and do nothing, or we can try something new and fresh. Many times I log on to fly,. And their are 2 people in the server at that time. I'm guilty of logging right back off to do something else. We are waiting patiently for TFS, but we also need something to Kickstart a little excitement back into the server as well I feel. If you don't like it then don't play..but to toss dirt on it without giving it a shot seems wrong. Especially since it probably won't be running on server 1 ( which I think it should if it works right) different argument for a different time. That being said , I feel it's a great idea. If it works and it's fun, and brings in players ..then mission accomplished IMO. S!
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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Ribbs View Post
    .but to toss dirt on it without giving it a shot seems wrong.

    The OP asked for thoughts and ideas Ribbs. I gave my opinions based upon that oulined suggestion. Oskar is a talented mission maker and in his hands it could well work as long as its played by like minded players. On server one it will get abused by cap kings and vulchers and players whos only interest is their own fun.
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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    I have had an epiphany!’

    Capture the Flag - English Channel. Good use of the minenshouten boats (sp?)

    English and French boats fighting for control over scallop beds. No guns required. Now this I would be on board with.


    ...On board with.......get it......

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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    Worth a try. It sounds similar to the Old Flying Circus game I used to play on-line in the late 1990s. From what I can recall, they had a series of bases that you had to capture. It would be good to help focus the objective and get bombers and fighter to work closer together.

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    Re: suggestion for new map-Capture the Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by gonk View Post
    Worth a try. It sounds similar to the Old Flying Circus game I used to play on-line in the late 1990s. From what I can recall, they had a series of bases that you had to capture. It would be good to help focus the objective and get bombers and fighter to work closer together.

    I flew in Flying Circus As did Fatal Error. Both of us are from the Skeleton Crew Squadron. 'Flying Circus', we few, we merry band of brothers...

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