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Thread: Everyone, please have a look!

  1. #1
    Admin ATAG_Snapper's Avatar
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    Everyone, please have a look!

    Hi everyone,

    It's come to my/ATAG's attention that false and malicious accusations have been made on Facebook regarding the handling of the ATAG donations. This is unfortunate, since ATAG's continuing operation is non-profit and has depended on the generous support within this community. We keep this forum and our server running 24/7 free of charge to everyone. The donations we receive are all greatly appreciated and goes towards the ongoing operational expenses.

    Yes, costs borne directly by ATAG have decreased with the recent acquisition of ATAG assets (and liabilities) by Team Fusion Simulations. I intervened directly when the November goal was set much too high; the smaller goal amount for December reflects this adjustment to bring ATAG to a break-even status by year end, rather than run a surplus. For 2019 I will review the annual operational costs with TFS to set the monthly donation goals accordingly. If anyone has a problem with how the donations are handled, I'm your guy. It's on me.

    Personally, I found the Facebook attacks disappointing. We're just a bunch of guys with a keen interest in aviation in general - and Cliffs of Dover in particular. It takes a lot of work and time to keep the forum and server running, which we do gladly because, quite honestly, we get to interact with sterling chaps like yourselves. Why anyone would wish to see that end is beyond me. But there it is.

    I discussed the above with TFS, who provided me with the additional info below to share with you.

    Sincerely,

    Snapper


    - Team Fusion has purchased the ATAG 2 Server and the ATAG Website and now pays those costs outright... the only element remaining in ATAG control now is the ATAG 1 server.... which ATAG still raises donations for, therefore the costs are less and the ceiling is less.

    - In the past there were other costs besides those of the servers and website... the bandwidth costs for hosting the TF patches sometimes ran to multiple thousands of dollars a month... several hundreds of thousands of users downloaded these patches and hugely increased the bandwidth usage... which therefore resulted in additional charges from the provider. Bliss incurred quite large debts on behalf of ATAG which actually have never been completely repaid even when the targets for donations were exceeded. Now that the download hosting is no longer needed, (the game and patches are on Steam) the overall costs are stable... no need to allow for overages in the donation target


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    Supporting Member farley's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    Well Snap, I recommend that if there is any money left over every year from donations, that you and the missus have a New Years bash at your place.

    Pot luck and you supply the space and beer (Thanks Bro!)


    Maybe we should have a vote on a charity and if there are any funds left over they can go to that.


    Or just donate it to the TF guys, cause they are a bunch of charity cases anyhow.......

    Hang on, that might not have come out quite the way i wanted......

    What i meant was that they have, over the years been quite charitable in donating their time and brains, for no monetary reward, and created an amazing sim. So I vote we pass on the money to them so they can buy a drink and toast their hard work!

    (hope that sounded a bit better....)
    "If you want to fly, give up everything that weighs you down"......

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    Admin ATAG_Snapper's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    Ha! You’re too kind, Farley. LOL

    Actually, any surplus gets rolled into next year, amortized over 12 months. Any shortfall gets paid by TFS (they’ve taken over that liability from Bliss). Payments for the server and other expenses are handled by PayPal as a strictly hands-off function. (PayPal won’t even buy beers for the house! ) From my end I use a software utility called Donations Pro into which I feed the expected yearly expenses and it calculates the monthly donation goals, taking into account monthly shortages/surpluses and adjusting subsequent donation goals accordingly. It does a great job, but if my estimates are a little off, then I have to manually over ride at the end of the year, as I did for Nov & Dec. We weren’t off by that much, given the change in ownership and finances...but enough to generate some real nastiness over at FaceBook.

    Screw it. Let’s fly!

    Last edited by ATAG_Snapper; Dec-11-2018 at 19:06.


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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    Good to hear the layout of the funding put in clear terms Snapper.
    Must be tough on TF at the moment though as they haven't earned anything from v5. 00 yet, no idea when it is expected to drop and any funds they do make will take a hit from the purchase of ATAG before they even start sharing any profits in the team.
    Let's hope the community rally behind them and it does make significant funds to show how much the community appreciate the years of effort.

    Cheers, MP
    "The needs of the Flight Sim Community outweigh the needs of the one or the few"

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    Team Fusion ATAG_Pattle's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    What will help TFS is to get some positive press.

    Generally speaking, our community are mostly people 40+ at an educated guess. Many of us grew up playing sims from the 80s onwards. The 90s and early 2000's was the golden period in terms of how many people bought flight sim games.

    Now we are starting to see some truly outstanding sims either out now, or coming out soon. North Africa, Bondenplatte - how good is it going to be!

    It does my head in to see people posting in forums, and the Cliffs FB page actively being negative, and in many cases wishing for the demise of Cliffs.

    If someone isn't into it anymore bugger off and find the next game that interest you.

    The overt negativity is a disgrace, particularly given the age bracket of the people making those comments.

    I see new people posting here, and on the Cliffs FB page, people you can tell are wide eyed in wonder on how good this sim looks and flies. Every single one of us was that person at one point, those people then read stupid, inconsiderate comments made by people with ill motive, and that puts a dampener on everything.

    There is a difference between free speech and malicious intent. Those actively trying to destabilise should be ashamed of themselves. If the market had a million player audience, the naysayers voice would not mean anything, but we don't have a million people, it is a niche market that we all hope will grow.

    The sad thing is if those that posted negative comments met with guys that didn't, let's say at a major airshow like Duxford, I have no doubt nearly all would have a beer, a laugh and share war stories.

    Let's face it, when North Africa comes out, there will be aspects people will love, and others will wonder if the team got this bit or that wrong.

    Ultimately what we all need to remember is this, without Team Fusion, Cliffs was released in 2011 and crashed on takeoff, never seeing the light of 2012.

    In three weeks we bring in 2019. 7 extra years of life because of the TF team, probably a million hours or more of individual flight time, friendships from all over the world formed.

    Let's get behind them TFS and our sim.

    Pattle

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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    Understandable Pattle.
    Sadly due to a lack of resources opportunities to expand the player base can't be taken up though. There is a group of Chinese flight sim enthusiasts who are willing to do all the interface translation and text translation for free so that the market can be opened up to their tiny country () but unfortunately taking the text out of CloD and sending it to them is something that is still on the list of things to do
    Personally I find CloD even now amazing to look at, visually beautiful but still with irritating issues which just can't be fixed when compared against other areas that need input (I mean the pilots in BoX are now amazing to look at but this just isn't something I expect TFS to devote time to in CloD).
    That said I do wait with interest to hear of when the official release of CloD v5.00 will come and am still enthusiastic about it because I love so many things about it. I don't fly online but the news the AI is being reworked and hopefully other broken features too, means that v5.00 will be something I will buy and most likely make new videos from.....just waiting to see when it comes to fruition.

    Cheers, MP
    "The needs of the Flight Sim Community outweigh the needs of the one or the few"

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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    I don't use Facebook so I'll never know but I do have questions.

    I wonder who is doing this? Is it done under anonymity? It sounds like libel. I wonder what the motive is, it can't be commercial so is it personal? I wonder who could have a personal reason to libel?

    Very strange but as I am not personally libeled as far as I know I won't spend any more time on it.
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    Supporting Member QB.Creep's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Pattle View Post
    The overt negativity is a disgrace, particularly given the age bracket of the people making those comments.
    This. A thousand times, this. I expect that sort of behavior from children playing on consoles, but not from adults.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Pattle View Post
    What will help TFS is to get some positive press.
    Wholeheartedly agree here. I was talking this sim up to one of my younger coworkers (he is 26, I am 37) and he immediately went to Twitch to see what it is like. No one is streaming it, and it appears at first glance that there are no videos associated with it either (there are, but they don't show up on the "IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover" game page (located here). Not exactly sure why that is. There is also no image for the game's profile - maybe that is something TFS would be able to change? Next time I play, I will give streaming a shot.

    I think it would be fantastic if those with the means to do so could start streaming their gameplay on Twitch - that would help spread the word about the game and possibly grab the attention of the younger generation.
    Last edited by QB.Creep; Dec-12-2018 at 11:19.

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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Septic View Post
    I don't use Facebook so I'll never know but I do have questions.

    I wonder who is doing this? Is it done under anonymity? It sounds like libel. I wonder what the motive is, it can't be commercial so is it personal? I wonder who could have a personal reason to libel?

    Very strange but as I am not personally libeled as far as I know I won't spend any more time on it.
    It's definitely personal motives. 100%. Same as on the IL2 forums, same characters constantly chiming up. TFS could cure cancer and these guys would still hate on it.

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    Combat pilot No.119_Marshy (VK-M)'s Avatar
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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    Not on Facebook, don't trust it, so can't really comment.

    However, I would sincerely like to thank all those bods who put the unseen time and effort into CLOD, so that Herberts like me can have a great time - hats off to you all behind the scenes!

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    Supporting Member 9./JG52_Meyer's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    Went on and had a look to satisfy my curiosity , neednt have bothered my initial guesses
    as to who it may be was spot on.

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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    Hi everyone,

    It's come to my/ATAG's attention that false and malicious accusations have been made on Facebook
    And this is why I don't use facebook; it's a hive of drama and bull**** .


    From what I've been shown it's the bitter rantings of a group that have chosen to alienate themselves from the game and the community and continue to wallow in their own sourness because they've not succeeded in poisining the waterhole.

    Neither you, ATAG or TFS owe them an explanation. Keep on doing what you're doing.

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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    I posted in the FB chat (Ryan Quinn) before reading this, as I've done in the past. I'm not sure why that person in particular has a massive downer on ATAG, but it is quite odd. I joined your server knowing nothing about flight sims. You chaps taught me to fly, and even kill, in a very warm and friendly environment. I donated a couple of time when I was actively playing because I appreciated the services you offered.

    As I put on the FB post, if he doesn't like what ATAG ask (and I stress ask) for, then don't donate and don't fly on their server, it's not complicated!

    Anyway, keep up the good fight, I can't wait for 5.0. Currently flying on BoX a bit, sure I'll be on Clod at some point though.

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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    I gave streaming a go tonight, it wasn't as complicated as I thought it would be and it didn't put too much of a strain on my machine either! Thanks to Gonk for helping me QA it! I will continue to stream as I play and try to spread the word about this game and the community.

    https://www.twitch.tv/twc_creep

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  19. #15
    Ace Mysticpuma's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    TFS do have a Twitch channel., I set it up for them months ago
    "The needs of the Flight Sim Community outweigh the needs of the one or the few"

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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    Sad.. but Trolls are everywhere... best not to feed them.. ...anyhoo...

    As for Twitch, I see you can make teams in Twitch. Be worth a try, so we can get all the CLOD twitch channels into one area...

    Thanks Snapper.. your efforts don't go unnoticed....

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    Ace Mysticpuma's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    "The needs of the Flight Sim Community outweigh the needs of the one or the few"

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    Supporting Member Nightdare's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    I've donated a few times, I wouldn't care if you guys run a surplus, I'd say it's to cover the aspirines for the headaches you guys end up with trying to get all this to function

    ....as long as you don't go CIG on us
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    Admin ATAG_Snapper's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightdare View Post
    I've donated a few times, I wouldn't care if you guys run a surplus, I'd say it's to cover the aspirines for the headaches you guys end up with trying to get all this to function

    ....as long as you don't go CIG on us
    And I noticed your nickname was not in “Supporter Gold” - fixed! Every once in awhile the vBulletin software misses that - who would know computers make mistakes? LOL

    Thanks for your kind words and support.



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  28. #20
    Admin ATAG_Snapper's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone, please have a look!

    Thanks to everyone for your ongoing support, be it by donations, videos you post on YouTube and here, your great After Action Reports, and/or favourable reviews on Steam and other sim forums. As the old adage goes, "Haters gonna hate" but I honestly hope they simply move on and be constructive with what they do.

    In the meantime, we have much to look forward to. 2019 is going to be a great year!

    Cheers and blue skies!

    Snapper


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