Ju88 on minimum throttle emits black smutt then smoke both engines even on auto pilot

[BOBC]

Hi,
Full mission builder.
I am flying a test course at midday with one aircraft starting off a few miles out from the UK coast south of brighton and heading WNW. .
Ju88 only lasts for a while before its engines start sounding rough, black smutt starts appearing in wisps, then white smoke and down we go.

even on auto pilot from the start it does this.

The rad gills are wide open from the start.

engines are working at high rpms's I can minimise throttle but still makes no difference to rpm.

What should I look at to solve this ?

BOBC

[ATAG_kiwiflieger]

It looks like you are damaging the engines, make sure your RPMs are within limits, i.e keep them below 2350.

Increase/coarsen your propeller pitch to make sure you do not overrev at higher throttle settings.

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

There is lots of information out there on how to fly the aircraft in CoD Blitz.

Please take the time to look first before posting.

For example, the TF Wiki page and aircraft pilot manuals:

https://www.theairtacticalassaultgro...u.php?id=start

Hi,
Full mission builder.
I am flying a test course at midday with one aircraft starting off a few miles out from the UK coast south of brighton and heading WNW. .
Ju88 only lasts for a while before its engines start sounding rough, black smutt starts appearing in wisps, then white smoke and down we go.

even on auto pilot from the start it does this.

The rad gills are wide open from the start.

engines are working at high rpms's I can minimise throttle but still makes no difference to rpm.

What should I look at to solve this ?

BOBC

[BOBC]

It looks like you are damaging the engines, make sure your RPMs are within limits, i.e keep them below 2350.

Increase/coarsen your propeller pitch to make sure you do not overrev at higher throttle settings.

Hi,
but if I am using autopilot as soon as it flies, would that not know what to do ?

Also I have throttle at minimum, so not sure how I can be over revving.

As such I didnt think the manuals would tell me to stop doing that.

BOBC

[tgif]

Hi,
but if I am using autopilot as soon as it flies, would that not know what to do ?

Also I have throttle at minimum, so not sure how I can be over revving.

As such I didnt think the manuals would tell me to stop doing that.

BOBC

you could over rev at take off by not dropping prop pitch and rpm before a min or so then have trouble a few minutes later even if you set it right . Even if auto pilot is on you still need to watch rpm like a hawk auto pilot does not control a lot of things !! if you dive a little or go over yellow line you could hurt engine also don't run with rads at 100% set them down , I run 85% water 65 oil I am not sure in clod but in BOS you can hurt engine by running too cool never did it in clod though . sometimes I look out window to see exhaust also blueish seems correct if engine is hurt you see more yellow orange and power seems down . I run throttle mostly 80 % to 97 % depending on if I am trying to get away or dive on a target etc 0% on a dive etc but be conscious of how long you run at high tthrottle . mostly just watch the rpm constantly to stay down in safe zones TGIF ps if I throttle off and on real quick it makes a quick puff of black smoke but doesn't seem to hurt anything I try not to do that so I am not anymore visible

[69th_Zeb]

Gentlemen, as a brain exercise, and because I'm also learning this plane, I now don my tin hat.

As in most aircraft except modern airliners with auto-throttles, the propeller pitch control and the throttle are completely independent from the autopilot. They have to be operated by the pilot.

Your propeller should really only be at the 12:00 o-clock position (fine pitch, high rpm, default) during takeoff and landing (you can get fancy with exceptions). Think of it as switching gears in a manual transmission.

If I get lost on any plane (sim lol) with constant speed prop, I just set a reasonably high throttle setting to make sure the governor is in its operating range, set the desired RPM per the manual (or the green mark in the 88), then reduce throttle per the manual, or when temps are stable in the green. You can remove the nose gunner in your loadout to make it easier to see.

Even though the 88's propeller pitch was controlled through switches, you were still adjusting a Hamilton-Standard/Woodward style hydraulic governor that controlled oil pressure to a pitch change mechanism in the prop hub (during normal operating conditions). At idle, the propellers moved to their fine pitch stops (high RPM) through aerodynamic forces & counterweights...and the governor was disabled. At above idle (usually above 1400ish RPM on other engines, I don't know), the governor dumped oil at 170 psi towards coarse pitch hydraulic circuit until the RPM reached the pilot's setting (the clock setting is found as a clock on the engine nacelles), which by default is fine pitch at 12:00 o'clock. If you don't change that 12 o'clock setting to something else after takeoff, say 10:45, the engines will continue to rev up until you overspeed the engine. In other words, leaving it at 12:00 is like having a fixed-pitch, climb prop.

What's happening behind the cowl? Just a guess using some GOogle-Fu........
The clock gauge on the engine nacelle directly refers to the spring tension set on the governor at the back of the Jumo. If left at 12:00 o'clock, the governor flyweights would never be able to overcome the spring tension and send oil to the pitch change mechanism in the propeller hub. If the blade angles stay at high rpm (fine pitch), no resistance will slow the engine and it will redline. Lowering the clock angle (reduce Prop RPM etc) will reduce spring tension in the governor, allowing oil pressure to rotate the pitch change mechanism in the hub, making the blades bog down in the air resistance and slowing the engine down (or not be turbine-driven by a dive). You don't want to have the engine at full throttle with lower RPM for long periods of time, hence TGIF's advice to lower your throttle settings after setting RPM.

...or you can do what some of us do on a Friday, set all rads to 100% and frantically yank at all the levers until the gauges match the POH.

[BOBC]

Hi,
All good to know, however take off isnt a factor, I start flight over channel straight and level lasts a few mins, in that time engines are knackered before I get near the coast.

gills are open, I didnt open them, throttle is at minimum before hitting 'fly'.

I attach the mission files, I altered the course to take me over land, original file also attached was sea only, (unless I altered that before saving it !) , you will need to choose a skin as I have it set to one of my own, just grab the default or whatever.

So by hitting auto as soon as I see cockpit on screen, should I still end up smoking in a matter of a few mins ?

Its Extras>Full Mission Builder> load mission, select it>select aircraft on map, flashes, go object browser select Ju88 , maybe all that stuff happens when you select the mission, I would imagine so.

BOBC

[69th_Zeb]

Sorry, my response was way over the top. I got a little crazy there.

You still didn't mention adjusting the propeller control. If you look at your left engine in cruise, does it look somewhat like this (9 O'clock-ish)?
prop_controlsetting.png

Push the key binding "Decrease Propeller Pitch" immediately after you spawn in flight and watch that clock go down. If you leave it as-is, your engines will burn up.

No matter what you do in cruise, keep your engine gauges "in the green" as in the picture using your throttle and prop control.
engine80_2.png

[tgif]

when ever I come into the air from an air start I have to lower prop pitch fast and throttle that is a very easy time to damage engine plane is moving fast , can dive just a little bit and pick up to much speed and prop pitch goes up . I drop everything down : throttle and prop ' and then bring it up to safe levels . air starts are great for saving you some time to target but you have to be careful because it is hard to tell the status of all you controls quickly when you magically appear at 6k with god knows what engine settings . what Zeb says about auto pilot is correct 95% of what it does is more navigational than engine management in Mode 22 you can begin to trim out and set up but you still need to watch that prop pitch it usually buys me a enough time to raid refrigerator on channel crossings but once in a while I come back to find I am dead . if I ever see you on maybe I could jump in as bombardier and watch your gauges to see if I can further confuse things for you heheheh

69 Zeb can I send my 88 over to your house for tune ups and repair and maybe make the A1 have an automatic transmission of some sort so I can forget about prop pitches for ever . I think you could call it an a4 if memory serves me . you seem to understand prop pitch better then most of us and then I could look out the window more and drop bombs easier

[69th_Zeb]

The prop governor not "governing" RPM for shallow dives and climbs within operating range is a known issue. When it comes to propeller loads inputing into the engine, it acts as a fixed pitch prop.

Anytime TGIF. I've been busy this winter but if you see me on it'd be fine.

[tgif]

The prop governor not "governing" RPM for shallow dives and climbs within operating range is a known issue. When it comes to propeller loads inputing into the engine, it acts as a fixed pitch prop.

Anytime TGIF. I've been busy this winter but if you see me on it'd be fine.

I see in your "specs" you are a team fusion person . If you have any pull there can you do all the 88 fliers a favor and put a light bulb in the right hand side of our instrument panel . its really hard to see the rpm dial in many situations I am sure it must have been illuminated in real life but alas not here in clod .. If you are successful you will be added to all of our Christmas card lists for next year !!!

[ATAG_yotheguy]

I see in your "specs" you are a team fusion person . If you have any pull there can you do all the 88 fliers a favor and put a light bulb in the right hand side of our instrument panel . its really hard to see the rpm dial in many situations I am sure it must have been illuminated in real life but alas not here in clod .. If you are successful you will be added to all of our Christmas card lists for next year !!!

I'm the one working on the 88, so shouldn't all gifts be sent to me?



Can you show a picture of what you're talking about?

Any RL photo's showing a light?

[ATAG_Oskar]

This is the fitting for that cockpit light. Looks like it needs a new bulb.

Ju88_cockpit_light.jpg

[Kayo]

This is the fitting for that cockpit light. Looks like it needs a new bulb.

Ju88_cockpit_light.jpg

Looks more like a hose to me. Oxygen maybe?
I have Peter W. Stahls Zwischen Eismeer und Sahara book. There is a description of the Cockpit, maybe it is mentioned there. Shall have a look when we are in our summer house next time.

Here a picture from a Ju88-Cockpit in Oslo.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45569257@N05/7614100946

[tgif]

I'm the one working on the 88, so shouldn't all gifts be sent to me?



Can you show a picture of what you're talking about?

Any RL photo's showing a light?

I am not referring to the item Oskar mentioned I believe that is a hose also( I think to defrost glass but not posotive0 when I turn on my cockpit lighting only the left side of the cockpit instruments. light up . it appears there is no lighting built in to gauges on the right side and many times it makes it so you can not even read the rpms . there is a secondary cockpit lighting control but it does nothing to help that area , the 109 instruments light quite well so I cant imagine there was no lighting for half my instrument cluster in the 88 . I don't know if its relevant but in BOS both sides do light . I am quite happy you are working on 88 things you will receive the large musical Christmas card next year for even thinking about this tiny problem that probably seems silly to most people but would really help me out !! my eyes are not what they used to be I cant really show a picture, the dials just don't illuminate

Thanks to all TGIF

[ATAG_yotheguy]

Yeah that's the oxygen hose.

Ju88_29.jpg

I see what you're talking about.

Ju88_27.jpg

I'll talk it over with the team and see what we can do.