Wind mess not solved in 4.55 yet

[Topgum]

Dear members of TeamFusion,

as everybody knows I am a big fan of Clod and a flight enthusiast. I expressed my my thanks and respect for TF many times and I am not happy to criticize a important flaw of the sim, which I'd like to seen solved before TF 5.0 is coming out.
Wind conditions are so crucial in flying which I could hardly imagine myself before I became RL Pilot. They should be considered in a quality-sim like Cliffs as important as in real flying which is unfortunately not the case. Setup of wind direction in Cliffs is so dysfunctional that this aspect of the sim is even not arcade niveau, it is completely broken. As my hope was that this aspect would be addressed by TF in the 4.55 you see me disappointed. I can't say for sure but it seems that in many of my home made SP-missions the wind direction has changed after release, so therefore first I got hope that TF has ironed out it, but nope :-(

Proof: In the editor wind-settings wind direction is set to minus 130°. What ever this of value means (not existing in RL wind rose) it is not SEE, not SWS neither NWW.
Wind Bembridge 2.jpg
Anyway, on the Bembridge Runway 10 (= 100°, East) , wind is coming fairly from the south under theese settings = from the right side.
What does Wind speed 3.00 meaning then? 3 knots, 3 km/h or 3 Beaufort? I have no Idea, because it comes fairly strong as you can see at the windsock blowing horizontally.
Approaching the RW for landing under these conditions you will expect a strong displacement to the left, that direction indicated by the windsock.
Windsock & Smoke 1.jpg
But what happens? As the photos are showing I get an right offset !!! - that is unacceptable for a serious flightsim. Look where I am after touch down! Pardon, this is ridiculous.
Landing approach Wind right 1.jpgLanding approach Wind right 2.jpgLanding approach Wind right 3.jpgLanded Wind right 4.jpg

The windsocks and smoke should help a RL Pilot to judge wind direction and intensity, not so in Cliff, smoke from fire is just going up vertically, it is only decoration and that is arcade.
Windsock & Smoke 2.jpg

The best wind & weather setting I know in a sim (except X-plane, which I don't have) is in Condor 2, the famous soaring simulator. Every wind and thermal aspect like direction, intensity, activity, gusts + variations of all can be setted in every SP-mission and it works terrific good. You don't have to bother with the editor to create a new SP-mission, just to change e.g. wind direction.
Condor Wind.jpgCondor Thermals.jpgCondor Waves.jpgCondor High Clouds.jpg

And BTW, some love for the SU 26 behaviour in that point while taxing would be very appreciated, too, because it is ridiculous to see how a wing is lifted as soon as you take the chocks away.

That said is not to make anybody of the community up setted or blame TF . I just want to give a hint to a real existing problem, which is much more important IMHO than a third contrail smoke. Cliffs is so much, TF is doing so well, but the mentioned flaw above is such a quality killer in my eyes that I am afraid that it could kill the success of TF 5.0, that long expected edition, which shall work smooth and bugless from the very first day and it is should got rid of all the odd issues of the vanilla Cliffs of Dover.
Long live TF, long live Clod & Community

Forgive me,

TG

[Tibsun]

Smoke going with wind used to work in 4.312:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDcC7rys1SI


maybe this helps out with wind direction:
https://www.aircombatgroup.co.uk/for...php?f=5&t=8360

[ATAG_Oskar]

Wind speed is in metres per second. Wind direction is easterly based so 0 is E, -135 is NW, 90 is S and both 180 and -180 are W.

[Topgum]

Smoke going with wind used to work in 4.312:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDcC7rys1SI
https://www.aircombatgroup.co.uk/for...php?f=5&t=8360

Yes, I remember that, but I wasn't sure if my memory is wrong.

maybe this helps out with wind direction:
https://www.aircombatgroup.co.uk/for...php?f=5&t=8360

Thank you for the link, I will try out this later. Maybe I missed Bonkin's work here in the forums. My apologizes in that case. I can't reproduce the Wind direction calculations in a quick manor now because I have to rush....

[Topgum]

Wind speed is in metres per second.

So, 3.00 means 10.8 km/h respective 5,83 kn, right? This "breeze" causes a huge impact on your flightpath, a quite unrealistic one I have to say. The offset shown in my example is far to big IMHO under that condition.

Wind direction is easterly based so 0 is E, -135 is NW, 90 is S and both 180 and -180 are W.

Thank you Oskar for this quick info. The point is a) -135° should be the direction where the wind comes from, not it's destination.
For the moment I accept that, but b) the Windsock is about 100% wrong. The offset of the flightpath to the right could be considered as correct then.
I can't be sure which settings are really done in my mission. Runway is 10;Wind is set to -130° but it is going nearly to 180° and not to NW (315°) respective SE (135°) Windsock tells you 360°
Windsock & Smoke 3.jpg

Mates, tell me, are you really happy with that? Bonkin's procedures included?
Salute,
TG

[1lokos]

Are you testing this mission inside FMB? Maybe this cause issue with windsock, they look "mirrored"

In CloD wind set in FMB at -130 means a wind blowing from ~40º >>> 220º.



- What is set in FMB (e.g. -130) is not wind angle, but a coordinate like in CAD program, that result in "Wind blowing TO..."

When you ask controller" (TAB 7 3) the wind direction he inform is wind COMING FROM, not blowing to.

Since your plane are coming to landing from 280 >>>> 110º the drift for right is OK, but windsock need "wake-up".

[1lokos]

Set a mission is Bembridge with wind parameters of your first picture - 130 (wind blowing from 40 to 220º).

Don't see difference in windsock if run mission inside FMB or as Single Mission, an "big smoke..." react to wind (but their fire looks very weird).

Windsock assume a position at mission start opposite as in your picture.



TAB 7 3 inform wind blowing TO* 210 - seems "controller" use magnetic direction* -10º West declination (* forget RL conventions in "Dr.Wh'Oleg World").

* EDIT - In this case just happens an "It's CloD!" (Murphy Law) coincidence, controller don't use magnetic directions, but sectors of a classical (270BCE) 12-points Wind Rose in their reports.

The usual plane "auto-alignment" with wind match windsock position:



An detail is that wind direction vary during mission, based on value set in "gust" (0 to 45º) - seems 44º by default.

exxon or mobil near me


Fire out of "Dr.Wh'oleg World".

[Kling]

Effects are an ongoing project.. as we learn how the coding works

[Topgum]

Hi Lokos,
thank you for CLOD Wind rose above and testing my wind settings on your rig
So, inspired by this and Bonkin's editing-the-mission-file I created today another "Bembridge-Neu"-mission with same settings as before
Wind Bembridge Neu.jpg
Result is like in your mission, hooray, everything works like it should (no Smoke , no fire, no OlegFX)
First Windsock is awake , cock is moving into the wind
Brembridge Neu Start1.jpgBrembridge Neu Start2.jpg
Then landing as desired:
Brembridge Landig approach1.jpgBrembridge Landig approach2.jpgBrembridge Landig approach3.jpg
From that mission I created another one "Bembridge-New", wind set to 90° (= Oleg Tower =180°), 2kt. Result is OK, so no further pics are needed.
To see what happens if create a new mission from the "Brembridge Airfield under Attack" it is disapointig, though
Brembridge Neu & Bembridgne A u Attack neu miss.jpg
Although the "Bembridge-Neu" & "Brembridge Airfield under Attack".mis files are showing same values, the result for "B A u A"-mission is like was before in Dr.Olegs Wounderland.
I' going to test and confirm this again, to be continued.
But dear members of TF-developers, please, spare us from this kind of special FX and editing in the future, if possible.

I quote myself:

So, 3.00 means 10.8 km/h respective 5,83 kn, right? This "breeze" causes a huge impact on your flightpath, a quite unrealistic one I have to say. The offset shown in my example is far to big IMHO under that condition.

I have to offer my apologizes for that, I did a testing in therms of wind drift in Condor 2, wind 5 kt., wind angle ~80°, tested in ASK 21, which I use to fly in RL, too.
Condor Wind 5kt.jpgASK 21 Specs.jpg
Although it is difficult to compare a Wingspan 17m vs 11, MTOW 600kg vs 4300 and a landing speed of 50mph vs 100. To extend the final approach to be longer exposed at wind drift I started it in 300m AGL than the usual 200m.
Landing approach Wind right 5kts Condor1.jpgLanding approach Wind right 5kts Condor2.jpgLanding approach Wind right 5kts Condor3.jpgLanding approach Wind right 5kts Condor4.jpg
After touch down there is a clear offset. I expected it to be less as in SEP-Fighter, but who knows?
Is it wishful thinking to get an easy and efficient GUI-wind editor one day?
Salute

PS: Long life Oleg

[1lokos]

Another "bug" in this issue is the "Strip".



Example, in Bembridge with a wind set in FMB to blow from coordinate -130, an (magnetic) direction of 40º to 220º - what means a wind coming from 30º to 210º (due declination), TAB 7 3 inform:

210 3 330

Wind blowing TO (magnetic) direction of 210º
Speed 3 meters/second.
Strip 330 (º ?)

Besides 330 (33) be a non existing Strip (runway) in Bembridge, 330º is opposite of 30º - an ideal Strip placed against wind.
This indicates that FMB/game engine calculations for "Strip" is mirrored.

Then or fix this in game code or better remove:

- Since the "Strip" advised don't match existing runways.
- CloD runways (likes 1940's grass runways) don't have number in their ends.
- Just add confusion for players, they just need look at yellow boards or windsock, if available in mission.

Perhaps this "Strip" was added thinking in when Storm of War series release an... "FSX" version.

[Topgum]

Ssh! - FSX is the he-who-must-not-be-named thing in a serious quality sim.
I have X-ed it myself in #1- said broken instead

But again Lokos, thanks for helping me out of anger & confusion: You have a better understanding of this crazy making system. I noticed sometimes the yellow-boards-mystery as well and I had been .
Today, in the "B A uA"-mission I noticed after landing -yellow boards OK- another Spit of the wing at the other end of the runway taking off! Obviously AI knows better than FMB the ideal taking-off direction

Without the knowledge put on the desk here, I couldn't find a logic for all phenomenons here. These things have to end.

good night

[1lokos]

Wind Bembridge 2.jpg

This image remember me a detail about windsocks in CloD, are a limit for windsock use, don't remember the number (did a post about*), but after a given number they don't work anymore.

Above image suggest that your mission has much objects, perhaps have windsocks in others bases.. and this cause issue you face in original mission, a windsock don't reacting to wind direction.

EDIT - * In this topic: https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ead.php?t=9091

[Topgum]

Hi Sokol, sorry I am late.
There had been four Windsocks in total and countless static objects on that map. Can't say that I understood everything in 100% in your linked post (FMB-bachelor required After reading I have deleted all of the static objects and the windsocks in two steps. Finally I had success after deleting the last windsock and setting a new one. Now windsetting and -sock are working as they should - for the price that the map looks quite bare now.
Obvisously there's a lot DIY in that sim - a little bit to much for my taste. I hope for god's sake, for the commercial success and the pride of TF and last but not least, for our joy and comfort that there will be less in 5.0.

Salute,

TG

PS:
find.jpg

[1lokos]

Probable the issue is the number of animated objects, in that test up to 64 windsocks work, but are only windsocks and an Tiger Moth in the mission.

Since with four windsocks you have issue, others objects are the cause, maybe car and/or fires, smokes...

[Topgum]

Therefore, I deleted the objects in two steps: animated & static ground objects first, other Windsocks last. About 20 and more AI-planes which are not affecting Windsock-function. I have no Idea.