View Poll Results: What type of joystick do I use?

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  • I fly with a stock Joystick

    17 65.38%
  • I fly with an extended shaft joystick

    9 34.62%
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Thread: Stock vs mod joystick

  1. #1
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    Stock vs mod joystick

    Dear all,
    I am new here (maybe a month or two), and enjoying every second of it.
    Lots of fun, great pilots, and most of all, great community.
    I am still a newbie, trying hard to improve my flying skills.
    I am a real time pilot, and this sim is impressive by its realism.
    What I miss most in terms of realism is of course the physical sensations of flight (g-forces, plane vibrations, etc.). Normal, and I guess I'll have to live with it. I'm sure I'll survive all right.
    Another thing that I find difficult to cope with, is the "wrist" joystick.
    I read several posts about joystick mods, whereby people have lengthened the joystick shaft, and thus increased the realism (and perhaps precision) of sim flying.
    I have a Thrustmaster T16000M which I find is great. However, I find that "flying by the wrist" to be much less realistic than the feel of a real stick.
    I could go ahead an try to DIY my own mod, but before doing this I wanted to get a feel of what you guys (and gals) think of it, how many people fly with a stock joystick or a modified one (extended shaft length).
    I am interested in your feedback.
    Is it worth going through the mod adventure or shall I stick to stock T16000M and hope for the best?

    Noofy
    Last edited by Noofy; Apr-12-2019 at 14:29.

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Quote Originally Posted by Noofy View Post
    Dear all,
    I am new here (maybe a month or two), and enjoying every second of it.
    Lots of fun, great pilots, and most of all, great community.
    I am still a newbie, trying hard to improve my flying skills.
    I am a real time pilot, and this sim is impressive by its realism.
    What I miss most in terms of realism is of course the physical sensations of flight (g-forces, plane vibrations, etc.). Normal, and I guess I'll have to live with it. I'm sure I'll survive all right.
    Another thing that I find difficult to cope with, is the "wrist" joystick.
    I read several posts about joystick mods, whereby people have lengthened the joystick shaft, and thus increased the realism (and perhaps precision) of sim flying.
    I have a Thrustmaster T16000M which I find is great. However, I find that "flying by the wrist" to be much less realistic than the feel of a real stick.
    I could go ahead an try to DIY my own mod, but before doing this I wanted to get a feel of what you guys (and gals) think of it, how many people fly with a stock joystick or a modified one (extended shaft length).
    I am interested in your feedback.
    Is it worth going through the mod adventure or shall I stick to stock T16000M and hope for the best?

    Noofy

    Cant help you with your specific question Noofy but you might enjoy a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 joystick ??? - you have to search them out on ebay but they are excellent . The force feedback makes a real difference..

    S!

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  4. #3
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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Yes I know.
    Still have my Logitech Wingman Pro With Force Feedback from the good old CFS1 back in the 1990’s...
    Unfortunately no driver compatibility with Win10 64bit

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Hi Noofy

    Good to see you on the forums . There are quite a few guys who use a lengthened joy stick so I'm sure you'll get some positive feedback soon .

    I wanted to compliment you on your flying and say you are a very tricky opponent and have very much enjoyed locking horns with you on the server .


    I'm look forward to doing so again soon . When we see your name on the stats list myself and others certainly take note that you're around .

    You are a very welcome addition to our community .

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Modify it so its what you want.

    Mine sits low... and has a long extension. Replicating the throw you see in cockpit.

    If you do this you can't have its sat on a desk. So there are practical considerations as well....

    I love how mine works. Almost no spring force... Others would hate it....

    For me adding an extension was the best thing i did.... but I'd be wary of doing this (over a certain length) to anything with plastic internals....

    So... no easy answer really... play about and see what works for you.

    Last edited by ATAG_Highseas; Apr-12-2019 at 18:20.


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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    I did this yesterday

    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...l=1#post331651

    mod mod mod !!


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  10. #7
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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Looks nice
    What’s the bicycle break for?

  11. #8
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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Quote Originally Posted by Noofy View Post

    What I miss most in terms of realism is of course the physical sensations of flight (g-forces, plane vibrations, etc.). Normal, and I guess I'll have to live with it. I'm sure I'll survive all right.
    Another thing that I find difficult to cope with, is the "wrist" joystick.
    I read several posts about joystick mods, whereby people have lengthened the joystick shaft, and thus increased the realism (and perhaps precision) of sim flying.
    I have a Thrustmaster T16000M which I find is great. However, I find that "flying by the wrist" to be much less realistic than the feel of a real stick.
    I could go ahead an try to DIY my own mod, but before doing this I wanted to get a feel of what you guys (and gals) think of it, how many people fly with a stock joystick or a modified one (extended shaft length).
    I am interested in your feedback.
    Is it worth going through the mod adventure or shall I stick to stock T16000M and hope for the best?

    Noofy
    Good part of people that use "high end" joysticks - Warthog, VKB, VPC(VirPil) use extensions.*
    Because extensions are available as add-on and is basically "bolt and play", and because they believed that their control precision increase.

    * With 50-75-100-200mm of length, above is not recommended, due conflicts with "chair, desk, legs, knees...

    Between ones that use "entry-level" (e.g. T.16000M) or "mid-tie" sticks (Saitek, CH) extensions are less common, most because ready to use extensions are not available and for install one 'DIY' is need cut, mod, glue, solder wires...- or, make a permanent modification in joystick.

    The benefit of use an extension (the alleged "realism" is debatable) is that is required less physical movement of hand/arm for make the same control tilt the wrist.
    This give a perceived "better precision" control (the electronic precision is negligibly smaller).

    Article about extension in this old number of Computer Pilot magazine (free).

    http://www.pcaviatornetwork.com/files/CP143MT6FZ6A.ZIP
    Last edited by 1lokos; Apr-12-2019 at 23:12.

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Quote Originally Posted by Noofy View Post
    Looks nice
    What’s the bicycle break for?
    It's for my extreme cycling sim. Penny Farthing 3 VR




    Ok fine its not. It's my analogue brake axis.

    The virpil grips have one. I wanted one on my warthog grip.


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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Im new here too noofy. recently picked up a MS sidewinder ff and it made a huge difference for me. Just plugs in and works perfectly with windows 10 too.
    Although I cant compare it to the real thing as ive never flown a real aircraft. But as far as the sim goes think its a good stating point .

    Im quite interested in a modded full length stick too but wouldn't know where to start .

    Zap

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Sidewinder is pretty good. It doesn't break the bank either. I still have mine even though I've not been using it for a while now.

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Knight View Post
    Hi Noofy

    Good to see you on the forums . There are quite a few guys who use a lengthened joy stick so I'm sure you'll get some positive feedback soon .

    I wanted to compliment you on your flying and say you are a very tricky opponent and have very much enjoyed locking horns with you on the server .


    I'm look forward to doing so again soon . When we see your name on the stats list myself and others certainly take note that you're around .

    You are a very welcome addition to our community .
    Noofy, as stated above, I really enjoying winging with you. You help make me a better pilot and you seem to spot the opposing planes so well. I use the MS FF joystick also and it does help with flying, maneuvering at close to stall speed.

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Hello Noofy welcome to the community, if your good working with your hands here is a mod you can check out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWs7...ature=youtu.be

    ~S~ Sparky
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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Came across this. if you have more money than sense . surely something like this could be homemade for a fraction of the cost .


    http://www.spitsim.co.uk/

    Zap

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    For the same price I may as well do this...
    https://flyaspitfire.com/

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Quote Originally Posted by Noofy View Post
    For the same price I may as well do this...
    https://flyaspitfire.com/

    yup i know which one i would choose

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Quote Originally Posted by zappay View Post
    Came across this. if you have more money than sense . surely something like this could be homemade for a fraction of the cost .


    http://www.spitsim.co.uk/

    Zap
    Check out the show us your cockpit thread

    And look at what Nails has done.

    Bloomin amazing!


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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Making your own kit isn't that hard once you have made a few bits...

    And it's fun for all the family.

    Unless they don't much care for it...

    Man....

    I never even thought to ask.


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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Yes, I start to realise that it is going to be much more than just "extend" the joystick shaft...
    Starting with getting a table which has a dent in it above the stick.
    Plus a thing to fix the joystick somewhere between the floor and the table between the legs.
    And while we're at it, add some switches, levers, wheels, and bicycle breaks...
    Plus of course a mini fridge for the beer
    But before jumping into such project I'd better fix my SW crashes problem.

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    3D print parts for T.16000M extension.


    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2917980

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    3D printer... definitely on my must buy list

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    You can replicate the real thing sort of. But it cost about 3000$ buying or you need to build your own using mag ethic or hydrolic. However I got max flight stick. Hydrolic damped floormounted stick. It do not center itself like air resistance would normally do. But muzzle memory do that job adequately

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Quote Originally Posted by Noofy View Post
    3D printer... definitely on my must buy list
    Noofy, I was able to book one at local library and they helped me set the printer up at no cost other than for the plastic, which is much less than a cup of coffee (and much much less than a cup of good coffee!).
    "If you want to fly, give up everything that weighs you down"......

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    Post Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Quote Originally Posted by farley View Post
    Noofy, I was able to book one at local library and they helped me set the printer up at no cost other than for the plastic, which is much less than a cup of coffee (and much much less than a cup of good coffee!).
    You have those in your LIBRARIES?! .....

    Man...

    Now it's not just YOU lot that think England is 'quaint'



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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Knight View Post
    Hi Noofy

    Good to see you on the forums . There are quite a few guys who use a lengthened joy stick so I'm sure you'll get some positive feedback soon .

    I wanted to compliment you on your flying and say you are a very tricky opponent and have very much enjoyed locking horns with you on the server .


    I'm look forward to doing so again soon . When we see your name on the stats list myself and others certainly take note that you're around .

    You are a very welcome addition to our community .

    Well said, Knighty! Couldn't agree more... and I think we can add Zappay and Gerald to that list. There are lots of new pilots coming on to the servers and that's fantastic to see. They add so much to everybody's fun! Stick with us in Cliffs, lads, and you'll have a ball!

    Hey Seas...great work on extending your stick...very impressive! Now, I need a new kitchen fitted and a loft conversion built. I have 'a window' next week. How ya fixed? Salute!

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Had a look at what Nails has done. that is amazing. Although think my other half would go mad if I had that in the spare room lol .
    Very interested in having the compass and a few bits on a separate screen though . Will have to look into that

    Zap

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    I fly with a 15cm extension on my Warthog mounted on a wheel stand pro base from the floor. (Crosswind rudders mounted here along with throttle also) Took some getting used to, but now I couldn’t go back to pre extension days. The precision when flying and fighting is infinitely better. First couple of days of fighting involved a lot of stalling out. Have that under control now

    Samsung Odessy plus VR on the way. Won’t need to look at the rest of it, with VR and the feel and operation of the current setup, I will be for all intensive purposes, be flying a WW2 fighter
    Last edited by TWC_Sp00k; Apr-19-2019 at 06:37.

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Quote Originally Posted by noofy View Post
    for the same price i may as well do this...
    https://flyaspitfire.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by zappay View Post
    yup i know which one i would choose

    both!

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Hi Noofy,

    I have a 200mm extension on a T-50 base using my Warthog grip. Also have Crosswind pedals. Using the extension has been like the difference between night and day. I get much more precision sim control movements which, combined with the precision of the pedals, allows me to get sights on very accurately. No bobbing around trying to hold the sights on the target. Needless to say it makes more precise the movements at slow speeds around the landing flare where before I might overcorrect and botch it. I've also noticed in videos by others that pulling the trigger sometimes pulls their sights off target, probably because the slight pull on the stick creates too much sim control movement. I would never go back to a short stick.

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    Re: Stock vs mod joystick

    Thank you all for your very interesting replies / suggestions.

    So it seems that about 1/3 of y'all are using elongated joysticks.

    I thought best way for me to judge would be if I'd give it a try just to see the difference. So I zip-tied a piece of wooden stick to my T16000M, I remapped the keys I had on the handle to the keyboard (obviously there are no buttons on my test extension), I placed the device on the floor, and went up for a few test flights.

    True, the first few minutes were sort of confusing, but then, when it clicked, wow! What a staggering difference! Both in terms of precision (in following targets and keeping them in the cross-hairs) but also in terms of "natural feeling". And this despite the imperfections of my very primitive test stick (loose on the ground, no thumb buttons, etc.).

    Now I KNOW I absolutely have to find a way to extend my joystick, be it by DIY'ing my current Thrustmaster, or by getting a Warthog with its extension kit, dunno yet. Plus of course figuring the right design for my virtual cockpit, but there are many examples on this forum.
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    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti | T16000M FCS HOTAS | CH_PRO Pedals | TrackIR 5
    TeamSpeak 3, TS Notifier 1.6.0g, Reshade 3.1.2

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