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Thread: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Thanks to the advice from the experten in this thread my accuracy has come a long way in a week. Just attacked the docks at Southend from 5300m on the Steamworks map/mission and while i didnt hit the intended tgt (a specifric ship) i got pretty close, using the various techniques described in this thread and in the video - thanks Rostic etc.

    Salvo distance was 20m and it was 8 x 250s.

    Slide1.JPGSlide2.JPG

    The railyards at Southend are probably a better tgt to go for rather than the docks given where my accuracy levels are at so will try that next time.

    Was intercepted as i began my let down in France from 6000m but managed to crash land into a field and survive. My attacker had to crash land as well. Good 70 min sortie - enjoyed it.

    Ezzie

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Great stuff Ezzie.

    And great teamwork from the guys who have added their knowledge

    Pattle

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Just finished a satisfying ~ 2 hrs sortie on New Dawn Fades. Plan was to drop 4 bombs on Uphavon hangars and then 4 bombs on Ford Oil and fuel dump.

    Flew from Le Havre to Theville and then to Uphavon climbing and chatting with Soldat along the way. Struggled to find Uphavon airfield and due to late location of target and compressed time available to get bomb sight lined up I forgot to arm bombs and open bomb bay - douh. Didnt realise until i didnt see any bombs explosions in tgt area.

    So Ford then became primary tgt for 8 bombs which i attacked from the north. Managed to put all of them within fuel dump complex from 5650m which was satisfying - thanks again for all the advice on this thread.

    Slide1.JPGSlide2.JPG

    Landed at Le Havre after just under 2 hours flying.

    Ezzie

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Sounds fun, Ezzie. Maybe I should try the He 111 to be prepared for the Wellington when it arrives.
    Think the Blennie is very difficult to use as high level bomber as it is not easy to align with the target from far out and the payload is so limited.
    But with the Lotfe I guess it is easier to have enough time to go through the procedures prior drop and get a stabilized run in.
    Took some circuits with the He 111 and somehow I like this ship.

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kayo View Post
    Sounds fun, Ezzie. Maybe I should try the He 111 to be prepared for the Wellington when it arrives.
    Think the Blennie is very difficult to use as high level bomber as it is not easy to align with the target from far out and the payload is so limited.
    But with the Lotfe I guess it is easier to have enough time to go through the procedures prior drop and get a stabilized run in.
    Took some circuits with the He 111 and somehow I like this ship.
    Pick up the target in the bombardier seat in normal view. Have the bombsight at the fastest speed, lowest alt (310 and 3000 ft) (lake by the shore)
    B-1.jpg

    Once the view is about to hit the framework, switch to bombsight view, then start to add alt to the bombsight and lowering the speed, this will raise the bombsight and shorten your view.

    B-2.jpg

    B-3.jpg

    Zoomed in.

    B-4.jpg

    On this example I never lost sight of the target. Works at all altitudes.

    Will work with Br20 and same (as blenny) bomb sight equipped Welly.
    Last edited by Torric270; May-23-2019 at 21:47.

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kayo View Post
    Sounds fun, Ezzie. Maybe I should try the He 111 to be prepared for the Wellington when it arrives.
    Think the Blennie is very difficult to use as high level bomber as it is not easy to align with the target from far out and the payload is so limited.
    But with the Lotfe I guess it is easier to have enough time to go through the procedures prior drop and get a stabilized run in.
    Took some circuits with the He 111 and somehow I like this ship.
    im looking fwd to the welly as well. Hopefully the -111 bombing skills will be somewhat transferable to the welly.

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Thanks for the good advice Torric, shall try this trick with the speed and altitude.
    Hope that the more advanced bomb aim system in the Wellington further improves this.

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    I found the Blenheim to be the easiest bomber for high altitudes. Extremely accurate once you get use to it, hitting hangars from 18,000, and ships from 10,000.

    The Lotfe7 is a little tricky to learn, but it’s accurate, too. The payload is definitely better on Axis.

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    JUst finished binding keys and such... Done a few test runs with little success. Do you think you are at a point where as we could get a small group together for some training?

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Yeah, I have been flying the Blenheim a bit over the past few days, those engine sounds have got me excited to zoom around in a big bird, when do we reckon we could start some training missions?

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Lord Wukits View Post
    JUst finished binding keys and such... Done a few test runs with little success. Do you think you are at a point where as we could get a small group together for some training?
    For sure.

    Tips for accuracy, for now.

    1. Wind (direction and speed)Slip May be required.
    2. Target altitude (compared to home airfield)
    3. Levelling bomber before drop.
    4. Using gyro to steer during autopilot.
    5. Getting rid or that bounce during autopilot.


    Let’s get together soon.

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    PMing with Wukits for ideas, I have a base plan layed out. Any thoughts PM me and can discuss them.

    Will be making a post this evening when I get home about a new monthly bomber command training, rolling into events when the bulk of training is complete.


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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Count me in
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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    I'll bind keys for this today using DRock's 'Blenheim Controls':

    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ead.php?t=8556

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Top stuff Scones, good post Drock!

    Will go over key bindings before takeoff for new pilots. If they aren't bound then I will make some suggestions from what I have bound.
    Part of the reason for the half an hour early start

    Not sure if we will get to bombing itself, but will keep that chart handy just in case!
    And relying a little on you guys who are more savvy with the actual bombadiering side of things
    I have some manuals to read through, but have not personally had much practice, have two weeks to practice xD

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    I’m available this evening EST if anyone is interested in honing their level bombing skills.

    We can go over any aspect of it, or I can just answer questions. Allied or Axis, however, we should start with the Blenheim.

    Autopilot, Lotfe7, bombsight, navigation, weather,...


    I’m sure it will turn into a big wing at some point.


    Anyone are welcome to join.

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DRock View Post
    I’m available this evening EST if anyone is interested in honing their level bombing skills.

    We can go over any aspect of it, or I can just answer questions. Allied or Axis, however, we should start with the Blenheim.

    Autopilot, Lotfe7, bombsight, navigation, weather,...


    I’m sure it will turn into a big wing at some point.


    Anyone are welcome to join.
    EST evening is the middle of the night for me.
    I'll join if I am sober
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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Great to see some renewed interest in high altitude bombing!

    Good number of blennies on the server this morning / evening and big S to Drock for his leadership etc re the Blennies.

    I flew another satisfying / enjoyable -111 sortie to Ashford railyards. Got a nice grouping of my bombs in the tgt area but its a big tgt so didnt do enough damage to destroy it. On the way home was engaged by a lone Spit but luckily Tepes was in the area and using TeamSpeak he was able locate me and come to my aid and between us we drove off my attacker. Landed back at Tramcourt after a fun 90 min sortie.

    Ezzie

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Tactical tip #378

    To reduce your risk of being hunted down by red flyers using tab 7-1 - especially when you are the only blue flyer on the server - try the following procedure

    1. Spawn into an aircraft
    2. Check to see if there is an AI blue bomber mission underway using the tab 4 command - if there is then proceed to take off as tab 7-1 will be tracking that formation and you will not be trackable on tab 7-1 until that AI raid ends (~ 1 hr total from when it was sent) or they are all shot down.
    3. If there isnt a blue (or red) AI bomber raid underway - send one using the tab 4 command to a tgt located away from where you will be attacking. You will get a notification message at the top of the screen when the bomber raid has been initialised
    4, Despawn from your current aircraft and respawn into another aircraft - this is the crucial step as by depsawning you will no longer be on the tab 7-1 track file
    5. You will now have up to an hour where the AI bomber raid will provide a tab 7-1 smokescreen and you wont be trackable by tab 7-1. This should enable you to get to your target (or well on the way) without being hunted down by red fighters using tab 7-1.

    This wont totally eliminate the red side's ability to track you by radar as some of the missions have another way to track aircraft by radar. But it should help reduce it and allow you to get some good bombing runs in.

    Good luck

    Ezzie

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Dusted off my bomber pilot leather chaps after a month or so off and have flown a couple of sorties to dust off the cobwebs. Almost caught a newly spawned in spit at caterbury on the ground but he took off just before bomb release. And today K-oz and myself took off the bomb littlestone at high altitude. Unfortunately the reds were awake to our cunning plan and intercepted us just as we reached the IP. Had a good battle with a Spit and managed to fend him off with my rear gun but not before he took out my #2 engine and assorted other systems. Had to jettison bombs and headed for home on one engine slowly descending and only just made it back to France. Good fun even if i didnt get bombs on tgt.

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Came across this interesting reading on the theory of high altitude level bombing (with graphics and formulas)...

    https://eugeneleeslover.com/USNAVY/CHAPTER-23-D.html
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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    One more question to the bombing experts:

    My understanding is that in order to get the bombs on target you must have the altitude and speed (TAS) correctly set in the Lofte7 bomb-sight.

    If speed or altitude are underestimated, the bombs will overshoot target.

    If speed or altitude are overestimated, the bombs will undershoot target.

    The best indicator that alt and speed are correctly input is that the crosshair will remain still on target.

    Now my question:

    What happens if I compensate an underestimated altitude by an overestimated speed (or vice versa)?

    In the end, as long as the crosshair remains perfectly still on target the bombs should fall exactly on it.

    Since both parameters are subject to change over time, the idea is to correct for this variation in the final moments by only adjusting one of the two parameters in order to stabilize the crosshair.

    Confirm?
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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    One more question to the bombing experts:

    My understanding is that in order to get the bombs on target you must have the altitude and speed (TAS) correctly set in the Lofte7 bomb-sight.

    If speed or altitude are underestimated, the bombs will overshoot target.

    If speed or altitude are overestimated, the bombs will undershoot target.

    The best indicator that alt and speed are correctly input is that the crosshair will remain still on target.

    Now my question:

    What happens if I compensate an underestimated altitude by an overestimated speed (or vice versa)?

    In the end, as long as the crosshair remains perfectly still on target the bombs should fall exactly on it.

    Since both parameters are subject to change over time, the idea is to correct for this variation in the final moments by only adjusting one of the two parameters in order to stabilize the crosshair.

    Confirm?
    My normal for German bombers is to set bombing alt - elevation i.e. 5900. Then I will set the speed to 400 km/h. Once I manually drop the bombsight down to 60 deg with crosshairs on the target I will start the bombsight automation. From there I adjust the airspeed to get the crosshairs to stop moving. At about 25 deg (`22 deg for bomb drop) I will move to the bottom gunner to watch my bombs drop and watch the impacts to check for results.


    This is just one way that it can be done.

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    One more question to the bombing experts:

    My understanding is that in order to get the bombs on target you must have the altitude and speed (TAS) correctly set in the Lofte7 bomb-sight.

    If speed or altitude are underestimated, the bombs will overshoot target.

    If speed or altitude are overestimated, the bombs will undershoot target.

    The best indicator that alt and speed are correctly input is that the crosshair will remain still on target.

    Now my question:

    What happens if I compensate an underestimated altitude by an overestimated speed (or vice versa)?

    In the end, as long as the crosshair remains perfectly still on target the bombs should fall exactly on it.

    Since both parameters are subject to change over time, the idea is to correct for this variation in the final moments by only adjusting one of the two parameters in order to stabilize the crosshair.

    Confirm?
    This should not work. I just tried to drop bombs from 7400m (but to bombsight I can enter max 6000m). I stabilized bombsight on target - and overshoot was ~150m. Good enough for airdrome, but if you want to hit "milk factory" by single bomb - this will not work

    If you have problem with fast loosing of altitude in mode 22 just lower down flaps 5 degre, just before switch to mode 22... This is the fastest way.
    But I personally doing littlebit different. I know that plane will not loose altitude in mode 22 with some speed that I know (because I already done this 100 times) and I start trimming plane to horizontal flight until I reach that speed, and only then I switch to mode 22.
    Last edited by Rostic; Jul-28-2019 at 15:41.
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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Have a look at this interesting document on bombing theory, especially section2 (click here)
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Aug-05-2019 at 10:29.
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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Back again with a question or 3 for bomber experts re the -111

    Normally i just drop my 8 bombs on a single target and set my salvo qty to 32 which is the max and out they go. A couple of times - most recently today - i have tried to drop 4 bombs on 2 different targets but the second set of 4 dont seem to drop. And i have no way - as far as i can tell - to see if the 4 bombs are still onboard.

    I set the salvo to 4 and use the bombsight as per normal. Today i dropped on Rochford airfield and based on the damage message i think only 4 dropped which is what i wanted. After bomb release the bombsight turned itself off as per normal.

    I then turned and did a bomb run on Canterbury hoping to drop my remaining 4 bombs. I readjusted my bomb altitude and master arm was still on and my bomb doors were still open. I lined up and centred my sight on the runway and once the bomb angle passed 20 degrees i went to the ventral turret to observe the bomb detonations. No bombs were observed so i dont think i dropped any.

    Once out to sea i dialled the salvo up to 32 and did another bomb run on a point in the ocean. Jumped in my ventral turret and no bombs noted hitting / exploding in the ocean.

    This isnt the first time ive not been able to do 2 x 4 bombs so im wondering what i am doing wrong?

    Do i have to recycle the master arm and/or close - open the bomb bays to rengage the auto bomb sight?

    Does a salvo of 4 actually mean 4x2 are dropped rather than 4x1?

    Any thoughts / answers appreciated.

    Thanks

    Ezzie

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Ezzie View Post
    Back again with a question or 3 for bomber experts re the -111

    Normally i just drop my 8 bombs on a single target and set my salvo qty to 32 which is the max and out they go. A couple of times - most recently today - i have tried to drop 4 bombs on 2 different targets but the second set of 4 dont seem to drop. And i have no way - as far as i can tell - to see if the 4 bombs are still onboard.

    I set the salvo to 4 and use the bombsight as per normal. Today i dropped on Rochford airfield and based on the damage message i think only 4 dropped which is what i wanted. After bomb release the bombsight turned itself off as per normal.

    I then turned and did a bomb run on Canterbury hoping to drop my remaining 4 bombs. I readjusted my bomb altitude and master arm was still on and my bomb doors were still open. I lined up and centred my sight on the runway and once the bomb angle passed 20 degrees i went to the ventral turret to observe the bomb detonations. No bombs were observed so i dont think i dropped any.

    Once out to sea i dialled the salvo up to 32 and did another bomb run on a point in the ocean. Jumped in my ventral turret and no bombs noted hitting / exploding in the ocean.

    This isnt the first time ive not been able to do 2 x 4 bombs so im wondering what i am doing wrong?

    Do i have to recycle the master arm and/or close - open the bomb bays to rengage the auto bomb sight?

    Does a salvo of 4 actually mean 4x2 are dropped rather than 4x1?

    Any thoughts / answers appreciated.

    Thanks

    Ezzie
    If you are not shutting off the automation of the bombsight immediately after your first bombs drop, the site drops to zero and drops whatever you have left.

    So, when the bombsight gets close to dropping, jump to the bottom gunner and watch the first 4 drop, shut off the automation and then start over with another lineup moving the bombsight back up above whatever angle they dropped the first time and restart the automation again. Rinse and repeat until all your bombs are gone.

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Ezzie View Post
    Normally i just drop my 8 bombs on a single target and set my salvo qty to 32 which is the max and out they go. A couple of times - most recently today - i have tried to drop 4 bombs on 2 different targets but the second set of 4 dont seem to drop. And i have no way - as far as i can tell - to see if the 4 bombs are still onboard.
    You can, but

    "It's CloD!"

    When you start mission - with HE 111 with 8 bombs, look at bomb control panel - that two "phone dial" with small crank with knob in bombardier position, will see one light ON on right side - what seems bug.
    Nose select a "Bombs - Series length 1, 2, 3, 4" and will see lights N# 2, 3, 4 goes ON and the crank with knob will move in both sides

    Arm bombs, open bomb bay and hit the key/button for drop bombs, 4 will fall but nothing change in lights.

    Now select "Bombs - Series length 5, 6, 7, 8", will notice that lights $2, 3, 4 goes OFF, # 1 remain ON.
    And lights # 5, 6, 7 goes ON, # 8 seems burned.

    Now hit the drop bombs button and more 4 bombs will fall. Nothing happens with lights in bomb control panel.

    But if after hit the key/button for "Bombs - Series length 9" the lever with crank will jump and lights # 5, 6, 7 goes OFF.

    All typical CloD. Similar bug happens with Blenheim bombs switches, they don't go down when you drop a bomb, but if select a Series again they reset OFF.

    Practice in SP looking this panel (He 111 and Ju 88) and may understand some "logic" there.
    Last edited by 1lokos; Oct-13-2019 at 13:41.

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Torric270 View Post
    If you are not shutting off the automation of the bombsight immediately after your first bombs drop, the site drops to zero and drops whatever you have left.

    So, when the bombsight gets close to dropping, jump to the bottom gunner and watch the first 4 drop, shut off the automation and then start over with another lineup moving the bombsight back up above whatever angle they dropped the first time and restart the automation again. Rinse and repeat until all your bombs are gone.
    Thanks Torric - ill add that step into my procedure.

    Much appreciated - thanks.

    Ezzie

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    Re: Feeling stale, server's very quiet - maybe try some high altitude bombing?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    You can, but

    "It's CloD!"

    When you start mission - min HE 111 with 8 bombs, look at bomb control panel - that two "phone dial" with small crank with knob in bombardier position, will see one light ON on right side - what seems bug.
    Nose select a "Bombs - Series length 1, 2, 3, 4" and will see lights N# 2, 3, 4 goes ON and the crank with knob will move in both sides

    Arm bombs, open bomb bay and hit the key/button for drop bombs, 4 will fall but nothing change in lights.

    Now select "Bombs - Series length 5, 6, 7, 8", will notice that lights $2, 3, 4 goes OFF, # 1 remain ON.
    And lights # 5, 6, 7 goes ON, # 8 seems burned.

    Now hit the drop bombs button and more 4 bombs will fall. Nothing happens with lights in bomb control panel.

    But if after hit the key/button for "Bombs - Series length 9" the lever with crank will jump and lights # 5, 6, 7 goes OFF.

    All typical CloD. Similar bug happens with Blenheim bombs switches, they don't go down when you drop a bomb, but if select a Series again they reset OFF.

    Practice in SP looking this panel (He 111 and Ju 88) and may understand some "logic" there.
    Thanks 1lokos - i think i understand. Maybe....

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