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Thread: Shake rattle n roll

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    Shake rattle n roll

    Hi All. hoping someone can help.
    First came across this flying with Marlow the other night out of Eastchurch. And happened on both flights we had.
    Take off goes fine. Undercarriage Up, PP 85% Throttle 85% No flaps, Canopy closed. Make a steady climb and gentle turn south. Now this happens at virtually the same spot every time. And has happened to me 3 times this morning on every flight too. I start shaking about all over the place. Flight remains relatively level but impossible to read any dials etc due to the shaking. No warning signs come up of any failures and normal flight control is ok.
    Marlow was at a bit of a loss to its cause and suggested I post here to see if anyone might know.
    Hoping someone might have an idea. thanks in advance.

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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    ...and I think you said your Rad was fully open, Matt, and boost was off as you climbed? Did your temps start to increase....if you could see the needle at all? Did you manage to land or was loss of control continuous so you had to bail? Salute!

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    Admin ATAG_Snapper's Avatar
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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    As Marlow says, make sure your radiator is 100% open, and climb at 180 mph indicated to ensure your engine is getting sufficiently cooled. Make a note of your oil and coolant temps as you climb.


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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    Rpm

    I think you are over revving engine.
    Last edited by DRock; Sep-22-2019 at 09:39.

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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    Messing with the mixture will also give her the shakes. Can't think of anything else. Unless Marlow put sugar in your tank.

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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    Quote Originally Posted by jaminc99 View Post
    Hi All. hoping someone can help.
    First came across this flying with Marlow the other night out of Eastchurch. And happened on both flights we had.
    Take off goes fine. Undercarriage Up, PP 85% Throttle 85% No flaps, Canopy closed. Make a steady climb and gentle turn south. Now this happens at virtually the same spot every time. And has happened to me 3 times this morning on every flight too. I start shaking about all over the place. Flight remains relatively level but impossible to read any dials etc due to the shaking. No warning signs come up of any failures and normal flight control is ok.
    Marlow was at a bit of a loss to its cause and suggested I post here to see if anyone might know.
    Hoping someone might have an idea. thanks in advance.
    What aircraft are you flying?

    If it’s a Constant Speed Prop model such as the Spitfire 1a, 2a, or Hurricane Mk 1 Rotol, then 85% prop pitch is fine. BUT, if it’s a Spitfire MK 1 (ie not 1a or 2a), then 85% will over rev your engine for sure, as DRock says. Keep revs below 3,000 max, best at 2850 rpms. A Spitfire MK 1 will require you to continually coarsen your prop pitch as you climb into thinner air.

    As Kulea indicates, don’t mess with your mixture. Leave it alone in Full Rich position (lever remains fully pulled back) for your entire flight.



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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    You probably forgot the radiator...

    This being said, every time I fly with Marlow my plane start shaking as well, but that's because Marlow hates G50s and feels the urge to shoot at me
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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    haha thanks all for replies and seems that maybe I should have less trust for Marlow from what you are saying haha. just kidding.
    so just to confirm everything.
    Spit 100oct
    after take off. UC up, Rad 100%, Thtl 85% Prop 85%, no boost. level flight pretty much with gentle climb of needle hovering around the 1 mark. Mix in DangerDogz just seems to default to 0 and cant change and wouldn't know what to do there anyway sorry.
    Before the shaking temps seemed ok. cant tell after as shaking to much.
    Flight doesn't seem to struggle so much as seems pretty steady just more like sitting on a cart going over pebbled ground.
    Ive just tended to end game there as becomes unbearable.
    Looking out for bags of sugar around marlow lol

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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    Quote Originally Posted by jaminc99 View Post
    haha thanks all for replies and seems that maybe I should have less trust for Marlow from what you are saying haha. just kidding.
    so just to confirm everything.
    Spit 100oct
    after take off. UC up, Rad 100%, Thtl 85% Prop 85%, no boost. level flight pretty much with gentle climb of needle hovering around the 1 mark. Mix in DangerDogz just seems to default to 0 and cant change and wouldn't know what to do there anyway sorry.
    Before the shaking temps seemed ok. cant tell after as shaking to much.
    Flight doesn't seem to struggle so much as seems pretty steady just more like sitting on a cart going over pebbled ground.
    Ive just tended to end game there as becomes unbearable.
    Looking out for bags of sugar around marlow lol
    OK, DRock was right - you're over revving your engine.

    The Spit 100 Octane was an early Mark of Battle of Britain Spitfire. It does not have a constant speed prop. Technically it's a 2-speed prop (Fine pitch/Coarse pitch), but the BoB Spit pilots figured out how to manipulate the prop pitch control to give intermediate pitch control. This sim models that manipulation. (The Prop Pitch control in the Mark 1 Spit that you're flying looks a bit like a bicycle pump plunger, compared to the Spitfire 1a & 2a Prop Pitch lever control).

    What's happening is that when you start off at 85% prop pitch in your Mark 1 Spitfire on your take off roll your engine rpms are a bit less than the maximum 3000 rpms limit - which is good. But as you climb the air is getting thinner, so the propellor is encountering less air resistance as it turns - hence the engine rpms begin to gradually increase. Before too long you've exceeded 3000 rpms and you've blown the engine! To avoid this you must carefully monitor your engine rpms as you climb, gradually pulling back on your prop pitch (bicycle pump handle ) to coarsen the pitch and keep the engine revs below 3000 rpms. A bit of extra workload, to be sure.

    Do yourself a favour: grab a Spitfire 1a 100 octane or a Spitfire 2a. They both have Constant Speed Propellors. In other words, when you set the Prop Pitch for 85% for take off (= about 2850 rpms), the engine rpms will stay at 2850 rpms as you climb. (The Constant Speed Prop automatically coarsens its pitch as you climb to maintain the 2850/85% rpms that you set on takeoff - hence the term "Constant Speed")



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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
    OK, DRock was right - you're over revving your engine.

    The Spit 100 Octane was an early Mark of Battle of Britain Spitfire. It does not have a constant speed prop. Technically it's a 2-speed prop (Fine pitch/Coarse pitch), but the BoB Spit pilots figured out how to manipulate the prop pitch control to give intermediate pitch control. This sim models that manipulation. (The Prop Pitch control in the Mark 1 Spit that you're flying looks a bit like a bicycle pump plunger, compared to the Spitfire 1a & 2a Prop Pitch lever control).

    What's happening is that when you start off at 85% prop pitch in your Mark 1 Spitfire on your take off roll your engine rpms are a bit less than the maximum 3000 rpms limit - which is good. But as you climb the air is getting thinner, so the propellor is encountering less air resistance as it turns - hence the engine rpms begin to gradually increase. Before too long you've exceeded 3000 rpms and you've blown the engine! To avoid this you must carefully monitor your engine rpms as you climb, gradually pulling back on your prop pitch (bicycle pump handle ) to coarsen the pitch and keep the engine revs below 3000 rpms. A bit of extra workload, to be sure.

    Do yourself a favour: grab a Spitfire 1a 100 octane or a Spitfire 2a. They both have Constant Speed Propellors. In other words, when you set the Prop Pitch for 85% for take off (= about 2850 rpms), the engine rpms will stay at 2850 rpms as you climb. (The Constant Speed Prop automatically coarsens its pitch as you climb to maintain the 2850/85% rpms that you set on takeoff - hence the term "Constant Speed")

    Ah haaaaa! So when I thought you were flying a Spitfire 1A (100) you must have have been flying a Spitfire 1 (100)..... by mistake!!!!! That would make all the difference and would explain that, when we took a Mk2, you didn't get the shakes (in the knee bone!!) That 'A' makes all the difference, Matt! Hopefully, problem solved!

    Well done, Snapper and DRock! Just goes to show, Matt, posting on the Forum really does solve problems! Meanwhile, I'm back to Elementary Flying School! Salute!

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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    Hi Snapper and DRock and Marlow.
    thanks for all your replies.
    Sorry for slight tech wrong info here but it is actually the 1a(100oct) that I have been flying not the 1.. Ive always flown the 1a version as per Marlows recommendations. That was just my mistake on the thread post sorry about that. So sadly I don't think this is the answer as much as that makes sense for the other models.
    I start at 100% prop pitch for take off then reduce to 85% when airborne.
    This happened again with Marlow last night but oddly did not happen when we air spawned over same airfield. WIth same 1a 100oct

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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    Aircraft spawned cold on the ground come with the radiator closed, but air-spawns have the radiator open. IF you have an axis assigned to radiator it is an easy mistake to look at the position of the axis, see it is at 100% and assume your radiator will be open in the game aircraft, but, if you just cold spawned dark and anticipatory on the ground, it will not be. The game is tricky like that, your solution of course is to move the radiator control each time, do not assume any hardware controller's position set in a previous aircraft will automatically be reflected in the next aircraft!

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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    Thanks Bonditaria
    I have on occasion forgotten to do the rad and soon found out that I had.
    However on these occasions rad was fully at 100% shown both on screen on Engine data and physically can see in the cockpit that its fully forward.

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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    Quote Originally Posted by jaminc99 View Post
    Thanks Bonditaria
    I have on occasion forgotten to do the rad and soon found out that I had.
    However on these occasions rad was fully at 100% shown both on screen on Engine data and physically can see in the cockpit that its fully forward.
    85% prop pitch is too high for that plane at higher speeds.

    The prop pitch has to adjust as you speed up, maintaining a certain RPM.


    Try keeping your Spit below 2700 rpm until you get comfortable with it, then push it to the max when your skills improve. Rads 100%.

    This may require you to run prop pitch around 75-80%.



    Edit. Just because your rads are fully open, it doesn’t mean you can’t still overheat the engine.
    Last edited by DRock; Sep-23-2019 at 13:25.

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    Re: Shake rattle n roll

    DRock is right about the 85% throttle being too high.

    Take a look at this for the Spitfire Mk Ia:

    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ad.php?t=30878

    Note the 2700 rpm @ +3 boost. This is about 75% throttle.

    Last edited by ATAG_Scones; Sep-23-2019 at 15:58.

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