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Thread: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

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    Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    Hi Folks,
    I've been doing quite a bit of level bombing on BoS and I'd like to try my hand and get practiced up on on the JU88 in CoD in anticipation of TFS 5.0 release. BoS is pretty simplified level bombing setup and all bombers are the same. IIRC CloD has a more sophisticated setup and is quite different from BoS. Could you guys help me find tutorials on level bombing applicable to the 88?

    BTW is German bomber porpoising bug fixed in 5.0?

    Thanks

    skud
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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_SKUD View Post
    Hi Folks,
    I've been doing quite a bit of level bombing on BoS and I'd like to try my hand and get practiced up on on the JU88 in CoD in anticipation of TFS 5.0 release. BoS is pretty simplified level bombing setup and all bombers are the same. IIRC CloD has a more sophisticated setup and is quite different from BoS. Could you guys help me find tutorials on level bombing applicable to the 88?

    BTW is German bomber porpoising bug fixed in 5.0?

    Thanks

    skud
    Hi Skud,

    This thread below is for the -111 bu i believe the bomb sight is the same/similar. So some of the links in the thread might be useful. I found Chuck Owl's guide to be very useful re the -111 and would expect it to be the same for the -88. Worth checking out if you havent done so already.

    Oskar's Loft bombing sight training missions are also highly recommended - the link is in the thread somewhere

    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ighlight=stale
    Last edited by ATAG_Ezzie; Dec-28-2019 at 00:40.

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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Ezzie View Post
    Hi Skud,

    This thread below is for the -111 bu i believe the bomb sight is the same/similar. So some of the links in the thread might be useful. I found Chuck Owl's guide to be very useful re the -111 and would expect it to be the same for the -88. Worth checking out if you havent done so already.

    Oskar's Loft bombing sight training missions are also highly recommended - the link is in the thread somewhere

    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ighlight=stale
    Thanks Ezzie

    skud
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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    I confirm the Ju88 bombsight works exactly the same as the He111.

    Just be extra careful on RPM monitoring, the Ju88 is very sensitive.

    To stop the Ju88 "dolphin" effect when hitting mode 22 I do the following:

    1. Climb to 6-800m above intended bombing altitude as the plane will lose this height before stabilizing
    2. Trim the elevator as much as possible (watch RPM) by alternating a couple of trim-down clicks followed by a couple of prop-pitch decrease clicks until plane "feels" stable
    3. Hit mode 22 (watch RPM)
    4. Extend flaps until plane starts shaking (about 5 seconds) then immediately retract flaps (watch RPM)
    5. Enjoy the stable bomb run (double-check bombs armed, bomb bay doors open, and bombing mode properly set to desired single, series or salvo mode)
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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    I confirm the Ju88 bombsight works exactly the same as the He111.

    Just be extra careful on RPM monitoring, the Ju88 is very sensitive.

    To stop the Ju88 "dolphin" effect when hitting mode 22 I do the following:

    1. Climb to 6-800m above intended bombing altitude as the plane will lose this height before stabilizing
    2. Trim the elevator as much as possible (watch RPM) by alternating a couple of trim-down clicks followed by a couple of prop-pitch decrease clicks until plane "feels" stable
    3. Hit mode 22 (watch RPM)
    4. Extend flaps until plane starts shaking (about 5 seconds) then immediately retract flaps (watch RPM)
    5. Enjoy the stable bomb run (double-check bombs armed, bomb bay doors open, and bombing mode properly set to desired single, series or salvo mode)
    I can confirm that Noofy's procedure of dropping flaps works well on the dolphin effect. I use about 50% flaps on the Ju.88. As Noofy recommends keep a CONSTANT EYE on RPM as it is easy to become distracted whilst checking compass and bombsight etc.

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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_SKUD View Post
    Hi Folks,
    I've been doing quite a bit of level bombing on BoS and I'd like to try my hand and get practiced up on on the JU88 in CoD in anticipation of TFS 5.0 release. BoS is pretty simplified level bombing setup and all bombers are the same. IIRC CloD has a more sophisticated setup and is quite different from BoS. Could you guys help me find tutorials on level bombing applicable to the 88?

    BTW is German bomber porpoising bug fixed in 5.0?

    Thanks

    skud
    Not sure if this helps, been awhile since I did this document (2013) or even looked at it: JU-88 A-1 Training Manual from my old squad.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.hauy7ffwxr31

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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmus View Post
    Not sure if this helps, been awhile since I did this document (2013) or even looked at it: JU-88 A-1 Training Manual from my old squad.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.hauy7ffwxr31
    Great summary. Thanks for sharing
    Do you have others like that?
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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    Great summary. Thanks for sharing
    Do you have others like that?
    This one was never completed, a training manual start:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
    Last edited by Marmus; Dec-30-2019 at 15:00.

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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmus View Post
    This one was never completed, a training manual start:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
    Thanks
    Great stuff.
    Other aircraft too?
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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    Thanks
    Great stuff.
    Other aircraft too?
    That is all.

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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    Thanks Everyone. I have downloaded all of these and have gone through them. I also DL'ed a new copy of Blitz onto my new machine, mapped keys and took the JU up for a couple of flights.
    First impressions:

    - Feels heavy in the ailerons and light in the elevator compared to A4 in BoX.
    -Trims out nicely and easy to stabilize
    - It's much easier to control on the take off but once airborne but at low speed the P-factor is huge when pitched up.
    -Prop pitch is either increase or decrease toggle even when mapped to an axis (maybe this is correct)
    -"C" is backwards on temp gages
    -will be real glad when the A4/A11 comes out in Tobruk so RPM control can be set . Trashed a couple of governors already

    Haven't tried level bombing in it yet but will give it a try over the holidays.

    I hope TF is whacking the remnants of the legacy bugs left over from 2010 and completes the incomplete work like radio navigation tuning.

    skud
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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    So I've been looking around for original sources and found these
    Here is what looks like a rough but understandable translation from an original operation manual.
    https://www.allworldwars.com/Ju-88-F...ns-Manual.html
    note it says the A1 and the A5 had a VS-11 prop that has an automatic RPM control governor, the Ju 88 D5 has a VDM, it is not clear if it had a constant speed prop or not
    Everything I've read so far indicates that the RPM are set and not the pitch as it is in the game and there is a prop automation switch
    ""VS automatic, left engine" ("VS Automatik, links Antrieb") and "VS automatic, right engine" ("VS Automatik, rechts Antrieb") must be pressed."

    I also see a few different recommendations on the supercharger altitude -this manual states "Gear change happens automatically in the position "Automatic" ("Automatik").

    a. In climbing flight the change from low gear to high gear happens at 3,0 km +/.300m altitude.

    b. In descending flight the change from high gear to low gear happens even 400m lower than the change happened in climbing flight."

    From what I see supercharger automation is not possible in CoD.

    And then there is this
    http://https://www.mudspike.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Chuck-Guide-Il-2-Cliffs-of-Dover-Ju88.pdf

    and this

    Ju 88 A-1 Prop.png

    skud
    Last edited by ATAG_SKUD; Dec-31-2019 at 08:33.
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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    For the Ju-88:
    try this (German)
    and this (German)
    and this (German)
    and this (English)

    For bombing theory:
    try this (English) - in particular section 2

    Enjoy
    Happy New Year!

    PS. The source of all these documents is here.
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Dec-31-2019 at 14:56.
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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    For the Ju-88:
    try this (German)
    and this (German)
    and this (German)
    and this (English)

    For bombing theory:
    try this (English) - in particular section 2

    Enjoy
    Happy New Year!

    PS. The source of all these documents is here.
    Thanks Noofy!
    Really top notch stuff here.. best I've seen!
    Happy New Year

    skud
    Last edited by ATAG_SKUD; Jan-01-2020 at 08:57.
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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    BTW I've posted a bunch of inaccuracies in the way the 88 is currently implemented into the bug tracker.
    I hope TF looks at it and squashes them all before releasing 5.0

    skud
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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    So I have been out quite a few times trying out level bombing and I noticed:

    1) lotfe release point triangle doesn't move with changes in alt/speed setting- so how to know the release point or manually release?
    2) When I select salvo even with 0 meters spread it still drops a stringer of bombs 1 km long
    3) wing rack bombs did not release with belly bombs

    Can anyone suggest what I may be doing wrong?

    thanks

    skud
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    Re: Looking for Level Bombing Training (JU88) Materials

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_SKUD View Post
    So I have been out quite a few times trying out level bombing and I noticed:

    1) lotfe release point triangle doesn't move with changes in alt/speed setting- so how to know the release point or manually release?
    2) When I select salvo even with 0 meters spread it still drops a stringer of bombs 1 km long
    3) wing rack bombs did not release with belly bombs

    Can anyone suggest what I may be doing wrong?

    thanks

    skud
    Hi Skud,
    Salvo releases all bombs at once. I think distance between bombs / bomb quantity only make a difference in series mode.
    So in salvo mode the spread is due to altitude, the higher you drop, the longer the spread.
    Not sure why the wing bombs did not release...

    There are a few threads in here where the topic was discussed at length. Here is one example: https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ad.php?t=30843
    There are others...

    Here is a mission someone gave me some time ago (maybe Rostic?) which I modified to use the Ju88 (A-1) and removed the wind:

    Bomber no-wind-Ju88.zip

    You basically spawn into a plane at 5000m alt, aligned with Coquelle. Immediately hit mode 22 when you spawn in. Check rpm etc.

    Then you can test all sorts of combinations (series length, speed and alt settings, anything you like, and watch the result from the ventral gunner position). So you can see literally the effect of any setting. I always aim at the center of the runway and measure from there. The distance between red crosses is 10m, and between the triple white crosses 100m.
    You can test salvo, series, etc.

    Enjoy
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