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Thread: Questions about BF 109 controls

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    Questions about BF 109 controls

    First off, I have no intention of criticizing anyone for any perceived inaccuracies I may or may not have seen, I'm just trying to understand all the controls in the 109, with a goal of increasing my in-game immersion by duplicating (or approximating) the actual controls for my cockpit. I have a few questions about them:

    I have a button set for "Toggle War Emergency Power". It works in all the 109 variants except the E-4/N, yet Chucks Guide says the E-4/N does have WEP. Am I doing something wrong?

    On the Elevator Trim indicator, I see what looks like the words "Maddox Games". Is this historically accurate? Am I misreading it?
    vlc_2019-12-31_13-48-26.jpg

    I watched a video I found on-line of someone adjusting the Flaps wheel and trim wheel in a real 109 (don't know what model). The metal casting looked a LOT different than the one modeled in-game. Is the one in-game just someone's quick attempt at simulating the wheel with no real historical info or picture to go on, or are there really different wheels depending on the model/manufacture date, etc.?

    There is a toggle switch just in front of the elevator trim indicator, I think it says "Aus" and Zu". It does not appear to do anything in-game. What is it for?
    vlc_2019-12-31_13-50-28.jpg

    I'm planning to reproduce the throttle quadrant and oil radiator lever. I can read the pitch control which appears to be "Drehzahl", and underneath "grober" and "kleiner", but I can't read the little placard just behind the oil rad lever. Anyone know what this says? (By the way, whats with the weird shape of the letter "B"? Is this pronounced differently than a regular "B", or is this just how Germans write all B's)?
    vlc_2019-12-31_13-59-07.jpg vlc_2019-12-31_14-01-25.png

    On the lower left corner of the instrument panel is a selector switch and a red button. The switch appears to be labeled "Autholen", with positions "Aus" and "Betrieb". This control doesn't appear to do anything in-game. What is it for?
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-11-55.png

    Left of the magnetos selector is a big red button. Is this the engine start?
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-13-18.png


    Under the cockpit illumination knob is another red switch labelled "P14". What does this do?
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-13-24.png


    At the lower right side of the control panel is a lever with a yellow knob. Is this the emergency hydraulic pump handle for the landing gear? Right under it is an indicator that is labelled "Aus" and "Ein". It never appears to change in-game... what is it for?
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-17-06.png


    Just above the water radiator crank handle is a toggle switch labelled "Ein" and "Aus". It does not appear to do anything in-game. Any idea what it is for?
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-20-16.png

    That's all I can think of for now. I'd like to recreate any control that we can use in the cockpit, so if anyone can elucidate on these questions I'd appreciate it. Thanks!


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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    I'm planning to reproduce the throttle quadrant and oil radiator lever. I can read the pitch control which appears to be "Drehzahl", and underneath "grober" and "kleiner", but I can't read the little placard just behind the oil rad lever. Anyone know what this says? (By the way, whats with the weird shape of the letter "B"? Is this pronounced differently than a regular "B", or is this just how Germans write all B's)?
    vlc_2019-12-31_13-59-07.jpg vlc_2019-12-31_14-01-25.png
    That isn't a B it's a double S. The word is grosser = bigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post

    Left of the magnetos selector is a big red button. Is this the engine start?
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-13-18.png
    That is the non-functional main breaker. You'll see it in all Luftwaffe aircraft.

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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    "I have a button set for "Toggle War Emergency Power". It works in all the 109 variants except the E-4/N, yet Chucks Guide says the E-4/N does have WEP. Am I doing something wrong?"

    The E4/N doesn't have the same WEP as the other 109s have. The WEP button did not exist in reality, it was just a throttle setting with a 1 minute timer. Once the 1 minute elapse, the throttle would be pushed back to its combat setting. The E4/N did not have the timer and throttle lever pushback. The game chooses to abstract the timer and throttle push back mechanism by adding a separate button for WEP.

    vlc_2019-12-31_13-48-26.jpg

    The wheel here is just a sprocket. Look to your lower left, you'll see two wheels with spokes, one is the trim the other one is the flaps

    vlc_2019-12-31_13-50-28.jpg

    I think that's the manual/automatic prop pitch toggle.

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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Quote Originally Posted by katschmarek View Post
    "I have a button set for "Toggle War Emergency Power". It works in all the 109 variants except the E-4/N, yet Chucks Guide says the E-4/N does have WEP. Am I doing something wrong?"

    The E4/N doesn't have the same WEP as the other 109s have. The WEP button did not exist in reality, it was just a throttle setting with a 1 minute timer. Once the 1 minute elapse, the throttle would be pushed back to its combat setting. The E4/N did not have the timer and throttle lever pushback. The game chooses to abstract the timer and throttle push back mechanism by adding a separate button for WEP.

    vlc_2019-12-31_13-48-26.jpg

    The wheel here is just a sprocket. Look to your lower left, you'll see two wheels with spokes, one is the trim the other one is the flaps

    vlc_2019-12-31_13-50-28.jpg

    I think that's the manual/automatic prop pitch toggle.
    No, I understand where the Flaps and Trim wheels are. My comment was just that the hub of the wheels (the metal part) is drastically different than the one I saw in a video of an actual 109 cockpit.
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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Hi Kendy, I'll chuck in my contribution to answering what I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    ...I have a few questions...

    I have a button set for "Toggle War Emergency Power". It works in all the 109 variants except the E-4/N, yet Chucks Guide says the E-4/N does have WEP. Am I doing something wrong?

    On the Elevator Trim indicator, I see what looks like the words "Maddox Games". Is this historically accurate? Am I misreading it?
    vlc_2019-12-31_13-48-26.jpg

    That is indeed what it says, so no it won't be historically accurate! Think of it as an easter egg or copy protection for the aircraft model.


    I watched a video I found on-line of someone adjusting the Flaps wheel and trim wheel in a real 109 (don't know what model). The metal casting looked a LOT different than the one modeled in-game. Is the one in-game just someone's quick attempt at simulating the wheel with no real historical info or picture to go on, or are there really different wheels depending on the model/manufacture date, etc.?

    Production processes of equipment changed through the war on both sides. It's particularly apparent with some of the changes in the 109 cockpits. There are many reasons for this, but most of them are down to economy and ease of manufacture. Bear in mind that as the war progessed military hardware was becoming more mass-produced and resources were increasingly at a premium. This was especially true of Germany with the allied vice squeezing their supplies of oil and metal ores.

    I'm planning to reproduce the throttle quadrant and oil radiator lever. I can read the pitch control which appears to be "Drehzahl", and underneath "grober" and "kleiner", but I can't read the little placard just behind the oil rad lever. Anyone know what this says? (By the way, whats with the weird shape of the letter "B"? Is this pronounced differently than a regular "B", or is this just how Germans write all B's)?
    vlc_2019-12-31_13-59-07.jpg vlc_2019-12-31_14-01-25.png

    As Oskar said. It's called an "eszett". In German it's frequently used in place of a double s in words, in this case "größer" instead of "grösser". I'm sure Karaya or one of our other German speakers can explain the grammatical reasoning for this!

    On the lower left corner of the instrument panel is a selector switch and a red button. The switch appears to be labeled "Autholen", with positions "Aus" and "Betrieb". This control doesn't appear to do anything in-game. What is it for?
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-11-55.png

    I think it actually says "Aufholen", but I'm not sure what does.


    At the lower right side of the control panel is a lever with a yellow knob. Is this the emergency hydraulic pump handle for the landing gear? Right under it is an indicator that is labelled "Aus" and "Ein". It never appears to change in-game... what is it for?
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-17-06.png

    Yes, that's the emergency pump handle for the landing gear. I suspect the indicator is for showing the state of retraction or extension of the landing gear.

    Just above the water radiator crank handle is a toggle switch labelled "Ein" and "Aus". It does not appear to do anything in-game. Any idea what it is for?
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-20-16.png

    Another guess but possibly navigation lights.


    Kendy

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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    No, I understand where the Flaps and Trim wheels are. My comment was just that the hub of the wheels (the metal part) is drastically different than the one I saw in a video of an actual 109 cockpit.
    I misunderstood, associating your comment with the image.

    They did vary by model.

    This is what the 109E looks in real life. Looks close to what we have.

    109e_left_side.jpg

    e_flap.wheels.jpg

    These are from two other E models:

    2267089175_cff303c686_o.jpg

    2267877994_32f58410ca_o.jpg

    This is from a G2:

    bk6.trim.wheels.1.jpg

    bk6.trim.wheels.2.jpg
    Last edited by katschmarek; Dec-31-2019 at 20:22.

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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Indicator with Aus/Ein is the back-up mechanical gear position indicator. Doesn't seem to be working in-game.
    The lever with the yellow knob is the manual fuel pump handle. Doesn't do anything in-game.
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-17-06.png

    Fuel pump auto/manual toggle. Doesn't do anything in-game.
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-20-16.png
    Last edited by katschmarek; Dec-31-2019 at 21:51.

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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Thanks all for replies, Very helpful!
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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Oskar View Post
    That isn't a B it's a double S. The word is grosser = bigger.
    Actually it should be 'größer' (comparative to 'groß' = 'big').
    With two letters that do not exist in the English alphabet: 'ö' with the two funny little dots on top and pronounced quite differently than 'o' and the 'ß' also called 'sharp s' or 'sz' (in fact the sign is just the two letters for 'long s' and 'z' in fraktura written close together). In pronounciation it corresponds more or less to English 'z'. A double s would not be pronounced like this, but just would serve to shorten the vowel before it.

    'Autholen' is 'Aufholen' just the 'f' is scratched a bit.

    I most seriously do suggest that all 109 pilots who cannot explain the rules above should be restricted from flying evasive manoeuvres. Shooting should be allowed only to those who can understand logically explain the rules for comma placement in German.




    S!


    DerDa

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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    I most seriously do suggest that all 109 pilots who cannot explain the rules above should be restricted from flying evasive manoeuvres. Shooting should be allowed only to those who can understand logically explain the rules for comma placement in German.




    S!


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    Don't forget the full stops and spaces DerDa!

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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Quote Originally Posted by katschmarek View Post
    I misunderstood, associating your comment with the image.

    They did vary by model.

    This is what the 109E looks in real life. Looks close to what we have.

    109e_left_side.jpg

    e_flap.wheels.jpg

    These are from two other E models:

    2267089175_cff303c686_o.jpg

    2267877994_32f58410ca_o.jpg

    This is from a G2:

    bk6.trim.wheels.1.jpg

    bk6.trim.wheels.2.jpg

    Here is the video to which I was referring. The flaps control wheel appears to have 6 spokes, rather than the 4 shown in all your pictures. No big deal, I was just wondering.

    firefox_2020-01-01_09-22-02.png

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcMjhihuuX8
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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Is the one in-game just someone's quick attempt at simulating the wheel with no real historical info or picture to go on, or are there really different wheels depending on the model/manufacture date, etc.?
    Looks the case, see for example Spitfire cockpit, don't replicate any mark, but mix features of various.
    Hurricane cockpit is not modeled after "B of B" era Hurricanes, but in Hurricanes send for Russia - because developer use available Russian documentation.
    Those incongruousness was pointed by a guy called Tree - and BOBC, before CloD release (2011).
    They were accused of being "rivet counters" by fanboys and the matter swept under the rug.

    Even DCS Spit cockpit has modelling faults.

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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    Looks the case, see for example Spitfire cockpit, don't replicate any mark, but mix features of various.
    Hurricane cockpit is not modeled after "B of B" era Hurricanes, but in Hurricanes send for Russia - because developer use available Russian documentation.
    Those incongruousness was pointed by a guy called Tree - and BOBC, before CloD release (2011).
    They were accused of being "rivet counters" by fanboys and the matter swept under the rug.

    Even DCS Spit cockpit has modelling faults.
    I'm not trying to find fault, I just want to be relatively accurate. I obviously can't duplicate the controls perfectly to scale, I'm just trying to approximate for look and feel.
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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    Here is the video to which I was referring. The flaps control wheel appears to have 6 spokes, rather than the 4 shown in all your pictures. No big deal, I was just wondering.

    firefox_2020-01-01_09-22-02.png

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcMjhihuuX8
    There's not much to go by in that video, but going by how the cockpit looks and by the rounded wingtips, I'd say that it could be a G model (or an F, but those are really rare). However, I've never seen the flaps and trim wheels having 6 spokes in any of the 109 manuals, or cockpit pictures which I've come across; this could mean, either:

    a. the 6 spoke wheels have been installed by the people who restored the 109 (or possibly as a field modification), or
    b. at the end of the war, the later 109s were manufactured by different factories, which chose to do some parts of the aircraft in a different manner - this can be best seen by looking at the 109 G10 cowlings (some of them have symmetrically shaped cowlings, while others have them asymmetric).

    Unfortunately, when it comes to 109s the fog of war is really thick. Even the restored ones are a combination of components (from dug-out airframes and in some cases Merlin powered Buchon airframes) and due to the destruction/confusion at the end of the war, there aren't that many clear/reliable records. So, you can expect some (in some cases many) inconsistencies.

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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    A little off-topic with this... but in Chuck's guide to the Cliffs of Dover JU88 he states that the JU 88 A1 has the same prop pitch controls as a Spitfire, i.e, you can map it to an axis and the pitch will depend on the position of the axis. I find that it actually works the same as the 109, in that if you push the axis past a certain point in one direction the pitch will increase until you center the axis, then if you push it past a certain point in the other direction the pitch will decrease. You can't actually just move it to a position and the pitch will correspond to that position. Am I missing something, or is Chuck's guide actually wrong?
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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    I have a question about the water cooling of the Bf-109 F. In automatic mode, the cowl flaps are always in 50% position, at least when flying over the desert. I tried to open them more in manual mode but the lever seems to be like spring-loaded and goes back to 50% as soon I release the button. I was just testing the controls etc. there was no reason to open the cooling more than usual, the water temp was a bit above 90°c. Mainly I wanted to see how much and fast you can cool down the engine manually, just in case.
    But because I wasn't used to that behaviour from the 109 F in IL-2 Stalingrad I want to ask if this is modeled correctly?
    Not a complaint at all, I like to learn such technical details of the old machines.

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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Quote Originally Posted by von Graf View Post
    I have a question about the water cooling of the Bf-109 F. In automatic mode, the cowl flaps are always in 50% position, at least when flying over the desert. I tried to open them more in manual mode but the lever seems to be like spring-loaded and goes back to 50% as soon I release the button. I was just testing the controls etc. there was no reason to open the cooling more than usual, the water temp was a bit above 90°c. Mainly I wanted to see how much and fast you can cool down the engine manually, just in case.
    But because I wasn't used to that behaviour from the 109 F in IL-2 Stalingrad I want to ask if this is modeled correctly?
    Not a complaint at all, I like to learn such technical details of the old machines.
    Hi von Graf,

    They are not stuck at 50%. It’s just the info window (digital or with the sliders) shows input for the rads. Not the actual state. Go to external view and see what happens when you actuate them manually.
    Unfortunately there is no feedback for the actual position from within the cockpit. If the lack of feedback was so IRL I don‘t know.
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    Re: Questions about BF 109 controls

    Quote Originally Posted by 9./JG52_J-HAT View Post
    Hi von Graf,

    They are not stuck at 50%. It’s just the info window (digital or with the sliders) shows input for the rads. Not the actual state. Go to external view and see what happens when you actuate them manually.
    Unfortunately there is no feedback for the actual position from within the cockpit. If the lack of feedback was so IRL I don‘t know.
    Thanks for your help, J-Hat. Yes, I had only the info sliders and the thermometer in view when checking the cooling. Didn't come on the idea to use the external view as I already did for setting several key bindings.
    Maybe I'm getting old... (~60)

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