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Thread: My gunnery sucks!

  1. #1
    Supporting Member Kendy for the State's Avatar
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    My gunnery sucks!

    So I've been flying this 109 for about a year now, and I still can't hit the broad side of a barn! I understand that from directly behind, the enemy plane presents a pretty slim profile, and for a bigger target I need to hit from above or below for a bigger profile. However, many times I am right on the enemy's 6 so they fill the entire sight...I'll pull the trigger with a big burst of combined MG and cannon and it doesn't appear that I get even a single hit. When I check my hit percentage it will say 1% or less out of 50-100 rounds. What the heck am I doing wrong? If I am within 50 yards of an enemy plane and they fill my sight, it shouldn't matter what my convergence is, I would think I would get a lot more hits. Obviously I need some training!

    Maybe my idea of distances is off?

    In this picture, I think I am about 100 meters behind a Blenheim. Is this even close? If my convergence is set to 100 meters shouldn't I nail him?
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-50-18.jpg
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  3. #2
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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    You might wanna have a look at this training video (i know, it's not Cliffs of Dover, but still shows the basics); one way to practice, is to use the mission builder to create a simple mission, and activate the labels, which will show you the distance. For your first tries, make the opposing aircraft friendly, so that they don't shoot back.

    Last edited by katschmarek; Dec-31-2019 at 15:54.

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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    Read this thread. It is in german but you should easily follow it with google translate...

    Basically it gives you a special script. Copy it as is, paste in your favorite text editor, save it in any single mission folder by renaming it same as the main mission name, but with the .cs extension instead of .mis, then fly the mission as you normally would. Make sure you get v1.10 from post #3.

    Every time you hit your target, you will get a message in the info window indicating the distance and number of bullits hit.

    So you will:

    1. Be able to better estimate the distances.
    2. Immediately see when you hit or miss. You can play around with convergence and test, but mostly you will train your eye to know the best angle for shooting.

    In my case I realized I was systematically shooting from too far away, and not giving enough lead.

    Enjoy, and happy new year
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Dec-31-2019 at 16:40.
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    Supporting Member 9./JG52 Meyer's Avatar
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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    Kendy your more than welcome to fly a sortie or two with us anytime. See if we can pass on any tips or tricks to you. Just pop onto our ts channel when any of us are on.
    We'll start off with Belt load outs for mgs and Cannons , convergence ,aiming points etc etc. Then go on a frei jagd to see what happens.
    Dont be shy mate

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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    So I've been flying this 109 for about a year now, and I still can't hit the broad side of a barn! I understand that from directly behind, the enemy plane presents a pretty slim profile, and for a bigger target I need to hit from above or below for a bigger profile. However, many times I am right on the enemy's 6 so they fill the entire sight...I'll pull the trigger with a big burst of combined MG and cannon and it doesn't appear that I get even a single hit. When I check my hit percentage it will say 1% or less out of 50-100 rounds. What the heck am I doing wrong? If I am within 50 yards of an enemy plane and they fill my sight, it shouldn't matter what my convergence is, I would think I would get a lot more hits. Obviously I need some training!

    Maybe my idea of distances is off?

    In this picture, I think I am about 100 meters behind a Blenheim. Is this even close? If my convergence is set to 100 meters shouldn't I nail him?
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-50-18.jpg
    Distance is off, IMO.

    You look further than 100m, based on measurements on your gunsight. It looks set to ~280yds/30ft, which puts you twice as far.

    Set the gunsight's width to 56' (Blenheim wingspan), then set sight distance to match your convergence.

    When the Bomber fills your gunsight in between the two horizontal lines, that's your sweet spot.


    Good luck.

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  10. #6
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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by katschmarek View Post
    You might wanna have a look at this training video (i know, it's not Cliffs of Dover, but still shows the basics); one way to practice, is to use the mission builder to create a simple mission, and activate the labels, which will show you the distance. For your first tries, make the opposing aircraft friendly, so that they don't shoot back.

    Started watching this, looks like very good info. Will watch more when I get a chance.
    Thanks!
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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    Maybe my idea of distances is off?

    In this picture, I think I am about 100 meters behind a Blenheim. Is this even close? If my convergence is set to 100 meters shouldn't I nail him?
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-50-18.jpg
    From that picture I’d say you are ~400m from the blenheim.
    100m is when wingspan fills the outer circle (for a spit target, so a little less for the blenheim...)
    If both your convergences are set to 100m, then your bullets should go below target, and are crossing way before target and diverging left and right of target by the time they reach it.
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Jan-01-2020 at 02:32.
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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by katschmarek View Post
    You might wanna have a look at this training video (i know, it's not Cliffs of Dover, but still shows the basics); one way to practice, is to use the mission builder to create a simple mission, and activate the labels, which will show you the distance. For your first tries, make the opposing aircraft friendly, so that they don't shoot back.



    doh see goh

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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    From that picture I’d say you are ~400m from the blenheim.
    100m is when wingspan fills the outer circle (for a spit target, so a little less for the blenheim...)
    If both your convergences are set to 100m, then your bullets should go below target, and are crossing way before target and diverging left and right of target by the time they reach it.
    According to the official specifications of the ReVi gunsight a target of 10m wingspan (approx. what the Spitfire and Hurricane have) is at 100m distance when the target fits into the circle wingtip to wingtip. Given that the Blenheim has a much bigger wingspan (~17m) and the aircraft barely fits the innermost increments of the ReVi the Blenheim seems almost exactly 500m away.

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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    I can suggest to watch cliffs 109 guncam videos on youtube. Good thing on youtube is that you can slow down video and that makes it easier to see where to aim and when to press the trigger. I can also suggest 200/400 cannons convergence, it's good for both dead six shots and deflection shots.
    As Meyer said, feel free to hop on our ts channel and fly few sorties with us. Im sure we can pass some of our knowledge to you.
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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    My gunnery sucks too, so if your find the silver bullet(pun Intended) let me know.
    I usually try to get as close as possible and let rip

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  18. #12
    Supporting Member Kendy for the State's Avatar
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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by JackMaXX View Post
    My gunnery sucks too, so if your find the silver bullet(pun Intended) let me know.
    I usually try to get as close as possible and let rip
    That's my problem... sometimes I do just that-the plane completely fills my gunsight (or even closer!) and I blast away, and it doesn't appear that I have hit anything!
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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    Keep in mind that convergence matters a lot in the 109, since the rate of fire of the cannons is low. Also, depending on how you set up your convergence, the horizontal/vertical setting is a factor even when the target is very close. You could have your sight dead on the target, but the cannon shells will be passing on either side of the target and/or underneath the target.

    The 109, as depicted in Cliffs of Dover, is not a very stable gun platform. This means that your first shots (2-4 rounds) matter the most. Shooting more than this usually is a waste of ammo since the sight becomes uncontrollable.

    109_convergence.png
    Last edited by katschmarek; Jan-01-2020 at 14:28.

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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    So I've been flying this 109 for about a year now, and I still can't hit the broad side of a barn! I understand that from directly behind, the enemy plane presents a pretty slim profile, and for a bigger target I need to hit from above or below for a bigger profile. However, many times I am right on the enemy's 6 so they fill the entire sight...I'll pull the trigger with a big burst of combined MG and cannon and it doesn't appear that I get even a single hit. When I check my hit percentage it will say 1% or less out of 50-100 rounds. What the heck am I doing wrong? If I am within 50 yards of an enemy plane and they fill my sight, it shouldn't matter what my convergence is, I would think I would get a lot more hits. Obviously I need some training!

    Maybe my idea of distances is off?

    In this picture, I think I am about 100 meters behind a Blenheim. Is this even close? If my convergence is set to 100 meters shouldn't I nail him?
    vlc_2019-12-31_14-50-18.jpg
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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendy for the State View Post
    That's my problem... sometimes I do just that-the plane completely fills my gunsight (or even closer!) and I blast away, and it doesn't appear that I have hit anything!
    Three important words to remember: short-controlled-bursts

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    Re: My gunnery sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by No.119_Padre (VK-P) View Post
    Three important words to remember: short-controlled-bursts

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