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Thread: Bombing with accuracy

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    Bombing with accuracy

    If you are a Bomber pilot who wishes to make it home more often, you may want to take your skills to new heights. Taking the time to become accurate from altitude, can really change the game, especially, when the enemy expects you to come in low for those small targets.

    First, you need recon. Use this link to see photos of the targets for each map. https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...splay.php?f=49

    It's not enough to know where the target is located, but you need know the best direction to come at the target to maximize the damage. For example, if your target is a runway, the direction of approach is very important.

    Caffiers runway.jpg

    Smaller targets more importantly need reconnaissance. These targets need you to be lined up very precisely to minimize last second adjustments that throw the bombs off the line. The bomber must be balanced, wind considered, drifting, altitude, speed, bomb type, and type of target must be considered for most accuracy.

    I use 500lb and 40lb bombs with fuse set to zero. The 500s drop with more accuracy, and the 40s drop well before target, so your timing must be perfect. In single mode, I drop the 500s first, then switch to salvo and drop the 40s last to carpet my 500s. You can also switch to slot #2 (40lbs) instead of salvo if you have a longer target and want to spread the 40s out, as well as hitting some buildings with the 500s.

    Caffiers Frieght Dispersal 13,500.jpg

    Don't be afraid of going after those really small targets, you’ll get it in time. Here is an attack on the Communications HQ from 14,800 ft. It was cool to see those barrage balloons explode. The Mansion also suffered damage.

    Comm HQ 14,800ft.jpg

    When attacking fuel storage targets, sometimes close is enough. This is an attack on St.Omer fuel from 15,000 ft, which cut through the corner of the target causing a fuel explosion, which then triggered the whole thing to blow.

    St.Omer first hit.jpg

    St.Omer Fuel Facility 15,000ft.jpg

    In time, your skills can get creative. In this bomb drop you will see the first target exploding from my 500s.

    Folkestone rail 500s (1).jpg

    After I dropped the 500s, I shifted the plane to the left to cause my belly to sway to the right, then I dropped the 40s hitting the targets to the right of the tracks and the first line. This target was taken out with one pass.

    Folkestone Railyard 16,000ft (2).jpg

    Hitting ships from altitude is a big challenge, but those Corvettes are deadly, so it's worth a try. I scared this ship's crew from 9,200 ft.

    ShipHit 9,200ft.jpg


    These drops are with the Blenheim, but the Br20, Ju88, and He111 are equally deadly from altitude. Here is a link to the Lotfe7 tool to assist you with that accuracy.

    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ls/lotfe7.html


    If you can hit small targets from 10-15,000, you can hit airfields from 20,000+.


    Hope this inspires some new found skills in others. Good luck and have fun with it.
    Last edited by DRock; Jan-01-2020 at 12:54.

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    thats some very impressive bombing. BoX is a cakewalk compared to using blennie.
    But even carrying out low level recce missions I have extreme problem trying to find the smaller targets ie I was up at same time as you last night, spent 15minutes over hesdin at 1000ft trying to find that fuel research target. Same thing at Amiens targets in that mission (gave up hesdin and tried there - got to stage that map would end so didnt need fuel to rtb). With radar stations and numerous other targets have similar difficulties - but in towns its a nightmare to discern a target from scenery. And been trying to find some of these places since pre-blitz days.

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by 56RAF_stickz View Post
    thats some very impressive bombing. BoX is a cakewalk compared to using blennie.
    But even carrying out low level recce missions I have extreme problem trying to find the smaller targets ie I was up at same time as you last night, spent 15minutes over hesdin at 1000ft trying to find that fuel research target. Same thing at Amiens targets in that mission (gave up hesdin and tried there - got to stage that map would end so didnt need fuel to rtb). With radar stations and numerous other targets have similar difficulties - but in towns its a nightmare to discern a target from scenery. And been trying to find some of these places since pre-blitz days.
    Take a look at the recon photos, Stickz. https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...splay.php?f=49

    Always have a secondary target in mind. With high altitudes comes clouds, skewing visibility. If you are too low, it can be very difficult to find target. If you pop up a few angels from 10 miles out, you may see black dots on the target. These are the triggers.

    You’re right though, some targets are near impossible to find, let alone from altitude.

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Here are the two targets you were looking for. Hesdin and Amiens.

    HesdinFuelResearch.jpg

    AmiensTanks.jpg

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by 56RAF_stickz View Post
    thats some very impressive bombing. BoX is a cakewalk compared to using blennie.
    But even carrying out low level recce missions I have extreme problem trying to find the smaller targets ie I was up at same time as you last night, spent 15minutes over hesdin at 1000ft trying to find that fuel research target. Same thing at Amiens targets in that mission (gave up hesdin and tried there - got to stage that map would end so didnt need fuel to rtb). With radar stations and numerous other targets have similar difficulties - but in towns its a nightmare to discern a target from scenery. And been trying to find some of these places since pre-blitz days.
    I have the maps [England and France] which are available to download from the main COD Blitz file. I have them printed out with plastic folders next to me when flying so I can mark routes and course headings on. Also some of the target photos printed out from this site. If I know in advance I am going to a particular target I will go to the Mission Editor in Blitz in advance and use the maps on there to zoom in on built up areas to locate target locations.I even drawn my own sketch maps to pick out locations like forests and lakes, roads and railways etc. Using a combination of pre-planning and recon and just looking closely at the target area will help when trying to locate a target. I know in multiplayer you don't always know in advance your target but I try to do as much planning in advance before spawning.
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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_DRock View Post
    First, you need recon. Use this link to see photos of the targets for each map. https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...splay.php?f=49
    Is there someplace where all the target photos are in one place, so a guy can simply select the pic he wants to review/print in prep for his mission. I looked at the link above but it will take forever to wade through all the comments in order to find a picture of a target, let alone multiple pictures for multiple targets.

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by No.119_Padre (VK-P) View Post
    Is there someplace where all the target photos are in one place, so a guy can simply select the pic he wants to review/print in prep for his mission. I looked at the link above but it will take forever to wade through all the comments in order to find a picture of a target, let alone multiple pictures for multiple targets.
    The first post in each ‘stickied’ thread has recon photos.

    I leave it open to the relevant map on my desktop, so I can just hit the windows key and jump back and forth quickly. Usually, I’ve studied my primary and secondary, but it’s nice to have the photos if needed.

    Check the 12/13 threads at the top again. Easy access. Some maps are missing recon photos.
    Last edited by DRock; Jan-01-2020 at 20:17.

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by No.119_Padre (VK-P) View Post
    Is there someplace where all the target photos are in one place, so a guy can simply select the pic he wants to review/print in prep for his mission. I looked at the link above but it will take forever to wade through all the comments in order to find a picture of a target, let alone multiple pictures for multiple targets.
    This would remove part of the fun which is research and recon missions
    Anyway, have a look at 3rd page of the hellenic forum here.
    They did quite a good job producing maps showing all targets, and often also have target pictures.

    If you fly blue you may find what you are looking for here.
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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Hi Guys as you can tell I'm a bit rusty with Cod.
    Is wind speed and direction modelled and is the information available somewhere that tells you what it is at a certain altitude?
    Thanks

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_SKUD View Post
    Hi Guys as you can tell I'm a bit rusty with Cod.
    Is wind speed and direction modelled and is the information available somewhere that tells you what it is at a certain altitude?
    Thanks

    skud
    Yes: usually stated in the briefing (wind from west@ 2 m/s)

    Hit tab 7 3 while still on the ground will give you: 2 m/s to 090 for same mission.

    This is for all alts with caveat of Spiritus' missions, spy mission and another in the south map area where you bomb fuel on Theville; has gusts that turn 2 m/s into bombing with 6/7 m/s.

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_SKUD View Post
    Hi Guys as you can tell I'm a bit rusty with Cod.
    Is wind speed and direction modelled and is the information available somewhere that tells you what it is at a certain altitude?
    Thanks

    skud
    Wind speed and direction is modelled in CoD.
    Creator of the mission can set several wind layers and set different speed and direction of wind for each wind layer.

    In game you can determine approximate speed and wind direction by pressing TAB-7-3 "Request takeoff condition". The ground controller will tell you somthing like this "Wind 090 1 Strip 180" wich means that wind direction is 90 degres and its speed is 1 m/s, the recommended runaway for take of is headed 180. But the recommended runaway direction for take off is often incorrect.
    20200103160243_1.jpg
    Attention! You must remember that the wind info you get by TAB-7-3 is for lowest wind layer.

    But I have to notice that on the 100% of active servers and singleplayer missions and campaigns only one wind layer is used

    Onother way to dermine the wind information is by "Mission briefing". Of course this is possible if autor of the mission wrote this info to the briefing. To view the briefing just open your in game "map" and Right click on it. On the opened menu select item " Briefing". To switch back to "map" do this operation again. Right click inside the map window and select item "Briefing".

    20200103161544_1.jpg
    Last edited by Rostic; Jan-03-2020 at 09:21.
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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Del
    Last edited by Rostic; Jan-03-2020 at 11:21.
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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostic View Post
    Torric270, I'm sure you did mistake!
    If wind "2m/s from WEST" then ground cotroller tells "Wind 270 2 Strip ***", because ground controller tells HEADING of the wind (where the wind blows).

    This difference between meteorological direction of the wind (from where it blows) and air navigation wind direction (to where it blows) often confusing.
    Current Mission Dynamo: (Briefing) Wind FROM the SW @ 2 m/s. Hitting Tab 7 3 gives: Wind TO 030. I never mentioned the ground controller, but here it mentions strip 210. (030 given, not 045 as the game only seems to deal in 30 degree increments)

    So in your example, it would have said wind 090, strip 270, not wind 270.
    Last edited by Torric270; Jan-03-2020 at 09:59.

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Best way to determine precise wind influence is to do it in flight by pointing to any target on the ground, observing the drift, and correcting on the bomb sight until no more drift.

    If you read section 2 of the bombing manual here above mentioned (*), you’ll also know that this only corrects for the plane drift. Before dropping bombs, you’ll have to exaggerate the drift correction angle to also cater for the drift of the bombs after they leave the plane. How much you do this will depend on your altitude... at about 5000m you’ll have to double the drift correction.

    EDIT: (*) sorry the manual was referenced in a different thread. Here is the link to that document: click me
    Last edited by ATAG_Noofy; Jan-04-2020 at 03:48.
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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Torric270 View Post
    Current Mission Dynamo: (Briefing) Wind FROM the SW @ 2 m/s. Hitting Tab 7 3 gives: Wind TO 030. I never mentioned the ground controller, but here it mentions strip 210. (030 given, not 045 as the game only seems to deal in 30 degree increments)

    So in your example, it would have said wind 090, strip 270, not wind 270.
    I'm sorry. You are right
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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Speaking of finding targets: From time to time it comes to my mind that there was a map -still preBlitz- where reds needed to find a secret blue base in the middle of a forest (maybe near Desvres?). Well, that was a nice challenge!
    Does anyone know what happened to that map? (I don't remember the name sadly.) Didn't made the map into Blitz, or was just that specific target removed from the map?

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    do you think the 10º of magnetic declination is modeled in Blitz?

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by addict View Post
    do you think the 10º of magnetic declination is modeled in Blitz?
    Yes it is. Add 10 degrees to your intended geographical heading to get the correct magnetic heading.

    To be more precise you will also need to correct for compass errors (deviation - changes with every aircraft) and of course wind drift...
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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by addict View Post
    do you think the 10º of magnetic declination is modeled in Blitz?
    That is the deviation on the channel map. It is only 1.5 degrees on the Tobruk map.

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Torric270 View Post
    ...but here it mentions strip 210. (030 given, not 045 as the game only seems to deal in 30 degree increments)
    Correct, CloD controller use Timosthenes (350 BCE) Wind Rose, with 30 degrees segments.

    Their "Strip" information is useless, since in most cases don't match existing air bases runway orientation. Just add confusion.

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Oskar View Post
    That is the deviation on the channel map. It is only 1.5 degrees on the Tobruk map.
    That is the DECLINATION... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination

    Magnetic deviation is the error induced in a compass by local magnetic fields, which must be allowed for, along with magnetic declination, if accurate bearings are to be calculated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_deviation
    But as noticed in this article - More loosely, "magnetic deviation" is used by some to mean the same as "magnetic declination".
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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Oskar View Post
    That is the deviation on the channel map. It is only 1.5 degrees on the Tobruk map.
    Actually the Tobruk declination should be -1.5 degrees (repeat, negative 1.5 degrees), as in the early 1940's it was 1.5 degrees WEST of North (see below insert).

    And we all know that WEST = negative

    In other words, to get correct magnetic heading, we should subtract 1.5 degrees to the geographic heading (contrary to the Channel map where we have to add 10 degrees since declination is 10 degrees EAST of North...)

    2019-12-08_032836.jpg
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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Noofy View Post
    Actually the Tobruk declination should be -1.5 degrees (repeat, negative 1.5 degrees), as in the early 1940's it was 1.5 degrees WEST of North (see below insert).

    And we all know that WEST = negative

    In other words, to get correct magnetic heading, we should subtract 1.5 degrees to the geographic heading (contrary to the Channel map where we have to add 10 degrees since declination is 10 degrees EAST of North...)

    2019-12-08_032836.jpg
    First mistake is:
    The Channel map declination is -10 degrees WEST of North
    1.jpg


    Second mistake is:
    In other words, to get correct magnetic heading, we should subtract 1.5 degrees to the geographic heading
    To get correct magnetic heading, we should add 1.5 degrees to the geographic heading on the North Africa map.
    Last edited by Rostic; Jan-10-2020 at 16:18.
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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Mea culpa. You are right.
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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    In aviation, the common term is "Variation", instead of "Declination". Why? Who knows... but the common entry in flight plans is "MagVar", to label a column "Magnetic Variation". This label is also used on airfield diagrams and the CLoD theatre map.

    EDIT:-----------------
    Declination vs variation
    "The terms variation and declination refer to the same feature. On a map refer to it as declination. On a chart refer to it as variation. [/info green box] Magnetic declination, also called variation, is the difference between true north and magnetic north. It is either east or west. East declination is considered positive and west is negative." Dec 14 2010
    Navigation: Variation and Declination • PaddlingLight.com
    http://www.paddlinglight.com/article...d-declination/
    --------------------------

    Even this definition leaves room for discussion since the historical "Straits of Dover" Map (Chart?) uses "Variation". It's all semantics, but it's important to understand what the identical terms mean and that "Deviation" is a completely different animal.
    --------------------------

    For the difference between a "Chart" and a "Map", see this:

    https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/chart_map.html

    Wikipedia is probably not the best source for technical discussions... Stick with NOAA or FAA.
    Last edited by Baffin; Jan-14-2020 at 13:11. Reason: Explanation of terms
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  40. #26
    Supporting Member DRock's Avatar
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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Here is a really good mission for high altitude bombing accuracy thanks to ATAG_Oskar.

    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ad.php?t=29508


    This mission will give you distance from target, and average if you drop all bombs. It includes the Br20, He111, and Blenheim.

    test1.jpg

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    another question for navigation of german bombers:

    What is the reliable instrument to follow the route?the magnetic compass or the repeater compass? Why don't they mark the same? there is a 7-8 degree difference.

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by addict View Post
    another question for navigation of german bombers:

    What is the reliable instrument to follow the route?the magnetic compass or the repeater compass? Why don't they mark the same? there is a 7-8 degree difference.
    A magnetic compass will show you magnetic north
    A gyro compass will show you true north

    l assume the repeater you speak of is from a gyro compass, hence the differences in north.

    The earth has variations in its magnetic field which vary all the time in a known progression
    The aircrafts metal components induce an error in the magnetic compass known as deviation
    Magnetic Variation for your region is normally shown on your chart, your aircrafts compass deviation is shown on a card near the compass or on the instrument panel
    To use a magnetic compass to show true north you need to calculate the variation and deviation, adding or subtracting their values.

    Useful hint below: - means add or subtract depending on your value or location

    Can Dead Men Vote Twice. Compass-Deviation-Magnetic-Variation-True (270+/-7.5 = magnetic +/- 3= True course)
    Or
    True Virgins Make Dull Company. True-Variation-Magnetic-Deviation-Compass
    An
    CADET. Compass to True= add east.

    Good luck With your navigation
    Last edited by Dingo; Jan-29-2020 at 08:28.

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    The gyro is a repeater. It is a very sensitive instrument, and will not be calibrated properly by the time your done taxiing.

    Rostic took the time to figure out the accurate adjustments to the Blenheim’s compass.

    ATAG_Noofy has taken the time to figure out multiple Axis compasses.

    Both compasses require adjustment to declination and deviation.


    Thanks to these two, I have a chart on my IPhone that shows all corrections. They work perfect, just adjust for wind.

    https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ight=Deviation
    Last edited by DRock; Jan-29-2020 at 09:03.

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    Re: Bombing with accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by addict View Post
    another question for navigation of german bombers:

    What is the reliable instrument to follow the route?the magnetic compass or the repeater compass? Why don't they mark the same? there is a 7-8 degree difference.
    Repeater compass is a device that represents the measurments of distant magnetic compas.
    If you want more details, search "Patin compass" that used in German ariplanes or "Distant compass".
    https://sites.ph9.com/RemcoCaspers61...%20compass.pdf

    I found information that Patin compass must be accurate up to +-1.5 degree (http://www.airpages.ru/book/instrument_41.shtml), but looks like in the game it has bigger error, at least for the repeater compass in He111 for wich I have correction values measured by I./KG40_BOPOH.

    Picture with correction for 111 for England/France map is:
    1.jpg
    The internal numbers is the navigation course, next after them (in rect) is correction for magnetic compass, and external (in rect) for "Repeater Compass". The last external outside rect is for nothing, do not care about it.
    The correction already include magnetic declination and deviation, so to fly with any heading you want just add correction to it and look to the corresponding compass.

    For example: You want to fly navigating course 122°. The number in internal circle that best match is 120° and the corresponding correction value for Repeater Compass is 9°, so 122°+9°=131°. Well, you must fly with heading 131° by Repeater Compass.


    Also read this topic: https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.c...ad.php?t=31531
    Last edited by Rostic; Jan-29-2020 at 15:45.
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