Flying through Smoke - Fire Bomber crash

**HurricaneHarvest** · Jan-29-2020, 03:13

We have seen today footage of the fire bomber aircraft that crashed, killing 3 Heros . We see the plane drop it's retardant load in clear air then it disappears into smoke. shortly later it crashes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEIymHvqv8I

Not being a pilot, how difficult is it to fly through smoke ? do you lose lift ? The plane had dumped it's load so it wasn't heavy. Could the pilots be disoriented ? or choking on smoke ?

**TWC_Padre** · Jan-29-2020, 13:54

Flying through smoke is very unpredictable, especially when "bombing" a fire which requires a very close proximity to the fire, otherwise the retardant and water simply evaporates. There are intense updrafts from the heat of the fire, at the same time the fire is constantly drawing in fresh oxygen to feed itself from wherever it can find a source (that could be from above, from beside, from below). The result is highly unpredictable and violent turbulence.

**ATAG_Noofy** · Jan-29-2020, 15:08

**ATAG_yotheguy** · Jan-29-2020, 16:08

I don't think it's so much "smoke" but going from VFR to IMC, or IFR.

You learn in flight training the dangers of flying into clouds.

178 seconds to live..

This may have been the main factor in the Kode crash too.

**Baffin** · Jan-29-2020, 18:05

Accident investigators will definitely take a "Wait and see" approach on this one.

Pilots rated to fly a C-130 must be fully trained in instrument procedures... Both pilots are not likely to succumb to spatial disorientation but it's certainly possible.

C-130's are very strongly built, and are not likely to experience structural failure even during hurricanes or combat assault landings. Post #3 relates to a different, California mishap, and the reason is evident. Why that wing failed is a whole 'nother question. Pilots will blame the engineers and engineers will blame the pilots...

Lockheeds are very hydraulic, and have four engines to fail. Any system failure coupled with the low, slow IMC conditions described can be deadly if no one remembers to fly the plane while troubleshooting.

Time will tell... the Aussies NTSB equivalent will take their time and get it right.

**ATAG_TCP** · Jan-29-2020, 18:30

We will see. Undergoing the kind of workout that they have been, it is quite possible from any perspective that something could have failed either mechanically or humanly. Time will tell, unfourtunate buisness nonetheless.

**HurricaneHarvest** · Jan-29-2020, 22:18

I was thinking bout it more, wonder if the engines were choked with smoke ? is that a thing ? Do fire fighting aircraft have oxygen injectors ? i think I'm off in wonderland.

**ATAG_TCP** · Jan-29-2020, 23:00

Not really certain myself, but with extreme conditions anything is possible.

**Baffin** · Jan-30-2020, 09:31

I've never seen a warning about smoke ingestion... Only volcanic dust clouds like Mt. St. Helens'. That effect is purely abrasive though, not due to a lack of combustion air.

Professional firefighters may have more comprehensive information about smoke and jet (Turboprop) engines though. ScottyB., any help here?

**IIJG27Rich** · Jan-30-2020, 10:49

When my family lived in 100 Mile House BC before I came into the world they were friend's with some people who had two sons who became bush pilots, both were killed because of weather. There's a bad joke that my dad told me who also had a pilot's license. There's three things that kill pilots. Weather weather and weather.