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Thread: The importance of Singer Player

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    The importance of Singer Player

    Hi all...
    I´m trying to start a thread about the importance of the SP and campaigns, the importance of a good AI and the main reasons i think the sim community is not so important over the years as it should be counting the amount of existing sims (good or not is not treated here as that is a very personal point of view).
    First I must admit I´m mainly a SP player. I can give here only my reasons..and the main reason to me is… inmersión..
    I know no AI can ever substitute a good human sim pilot, but a good campaign with a good (or decent at least) AI gives me a feeling I´ve never found flying online. The fact of flying in formation, attack as a group, etc can only be achieved in SP games at least to me.
    There are a lot of causes to this, as I know there are events to represent battles where planes take off as group, with the same misión, target, belonging to a squadron and so on. But it depends on time you have to fly, time of the day, day of the week so you can fly etc…
    The only perception of online I have is a Quake like furball of flying planes. People turning on the engine and giving full gas no matter the place of the airfield they are, with cold engines roaring and flying full tilt burning fuel as lone hunters to avenge their last downed plane.
    That´s the reason why ,for example, I laugh when people , talking about realism says Brit planes should start prewarmed…well, I think…then German planes should airstart allways (the reason for prewarmed engines…)…so…no realism here but not wanting to take the time to make the operations needed to take off.
    The other reason, and this take us to the sim comunity, is that I think most of us are aging. No matter the good a sim is…almost no new incorporations in the amount necessary (not talking about the divided community in different and usually irreconciliable groups depending of the sim of their preference..). And I think…why?. we´d never had so good sims. These sims would have been a dream when we most of us started to fly, so…(and I don´t mean there are no new incorporations).., why with so good programs in our hands, no so much newcomers as they deserve?.
    I Know there are many resons to this (likings have changed, there are not so much history lovers as lots of us are, sims never were the most popular games , etc..), but one is….good sims are very demanding games. Usually have a hard learning curve and as once rookies we all were, lot of us started flying SP till we felt self confident enough to throw ourselves to the more demanding online battles. Not giving a fligh sim a good SP mode is almost general on these days sims. No matter which, they are all focused in online. So newcomers to the fligh sims have to fight against learning to fly, to take off, to land, to manage the engine (and not talking about shooting skills, deflection shoots…)… mostly while are serving as flying targets to more battle hardened veterans out there…
    This is specially true with bomber pilots. They usually get tired of serving as flying targets. As they have to fly alone, fighting against radar, with luckily a lonely good samaritan flying with them cause he saw the plane taking off and decided to fly with him…
    Not a very pleasant first experience to start in this demanding world.
    To sumarice, I think that in a world with so much sims and with not so much people divided between them, a good SP mode with good campaigns, AI and options would be a good differentiating element able to sum points and attract the so needed newcomers to the comunity.
    I could continue with more things about this. But It´s starting to be too long so….
    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Manual Creation Group DerDa's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of Singer Player

    I fly CloD (with very few exceptions) only multiplayer online, but before I played Il2 1946 for years single player only.

    From this experience I don't there should be opposed sides sp vs. mp.
    Both have their up and both have their downs. And the best thing: nobody keeps you from trying both.

    From my old single player times I know that you sometimes feel less represented than ther online community, just because the online community is, well, online and much more present, while many singe players just keep to themselves.

    We all love this sim and we should be glad that the TFS guys work so hard to improve it for all of us.
    They already did very, very much to improve AI (which might be one of the hardest things to do) in Blitz.

    If you followed the update thread, you will know that TFS is well aware about the importance of single players (you just have to compare the numbers of people on the servers with the number of total players on Steam, after all).
    And if you followed the updates you will know that many times massive improvements for single players were announced.

    Believe me: you are in for a treat, once 5.0 will be out!

    S!

    DerDa

  3. #3
    ATAG Member ATAG_Laser's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of Singer Player

    Some good points raised here.

    I fly both MP and SP, and I too feel that both have their Merits and faults. The cameraderie , flying alongside, against and talking on comms to other real players from all over the world is what makes MP shine, and what attracts players. Something that you just don't get in SP, but flying campaigns, SP missions and making your own missions is great fun too. Also it gives us lesser skilled players a chance to be more competitive without the presence of seasoned veterans, and even average players shooting you down all too easily all the time.

    In short, I think both are equally important, but I do think that both MP and SP in Cliffs offer a lot to the flight simmer, it's just that the MP stuff perhaps gets more publicity, perhaps, as has been suggested, because the online players tend to be 'Online' more

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    Re: The importance of Singer Player

    The most immersive missions I've experienced were online. Multiplayer.

    In a group. Where you know your mates.

    With strict radio discipline.
    With call signs in use.

    In one occasion, this was heard over the radio, after a skirmish over enemy territory, where enemy fighters were encountered.

    "Hornet Red three from Red Leader. What is your status?"
    (... silence ...)

    "Hornet Red three from Red Leader. What is your status?"
    (... silence ...)



    Now imagine listening to this, while you are on your way back to home base. In formation. With all the others. Except for one.

    Silence...

    That's a level of immersion you will never get in Single Player ...

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  6. #5
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    Re: The importance of Singer Player

    I totally agree. Everything I've purchased has been for immersion and to get as authentic as I could. I've flown on MP several times,, but the majority has been SP.
    Really looking forward to 5.0!

  7. #6
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    Re: The importance of Singer Player

    Quote Originally Posted by mad mac View Post
    hi all...
    I´m trying to start a thread about the importance of the sp and campaigns, the importance of a good ai and the main reasons i think the sim community is not so important over the years as it should be counting the amount of existing sims (good or not is not treated here as that is a very personal point of view).
    First i must admit i´m mainly a sp player. I can give here only my reasons..and the main reason to me is… inmersión..
    I know no ai can ever substitute a good human sim pilot, but a good campaign with a good (or decent at least) ai gives me a feeling i´ve never found flying online. The fact of flying in formation, attack as a group, etc can only be achieved in sp games at least to me.
    There are a lot of causes to this, as i know there are events to represent battles where planes take off as group, with the same misión, target, belonging to a squadron and so on. But it depends on time you have to fly, time of the day, day of the week so you can fly etc…
    the only perception of online i have is a quake like furball of flying planes. People turning on the engine and giving full gas no matter the place of the airfield they are, with cold engines roaring and flying full tilt burning fuel as lone hunters to avenge their last downed plane.
    That´s the reason why ,for example, i laugh when people , talking about realism says brit planes should start prewarmed…well, i think…then german planes should airstart allways (the reason for prewarmed engines…)…so…no realism here but not wanting to take the time to make the operations needed to take off.
    The other reason, and this take us to the sim comunity, is that i think most of us are aging. No matter the good a sim is…almost no new incorporations in the amount necessary (not talking about the divided community in different and usually irreconciliable groups depending of the sim of their preference..). And i think…why?. We´d never had so good sims. These sims would have been a dream when we most of us started to fly, so…(and i don´t mean there are no new incorporations).., why with so good programs in our hands, no so much newcomers as they deserve?.
    I know there are many resons to this (likings have changed, there are not so much history lovers as lots of us are, sims never were the most popular games , etc..), but one is….good sims are very demanding games. Usually have a hard learning curve and as once rookies we all were, lot of us started flying sp till we felt self confident enough to throw ourselves to the more demanding online battles. Not giving a fligh sim a good sp mode is almost general on these days sims. No matter which, they are all focused in online. So newcomers to the fligh sims have to fight against learning to fly, to take off, to land, to manage the engine (and not talking about shooting skills, deflection shoots…)… mostly while are serving as flying targets to more battle hardened veterans out there…
    this is specially true with bomber pilots. They usually get tired of serving as flying targets. As they have to fly alone, fighting against radar, with luckily a lonely good samaritan flying with them cause he saw the plane taking off and decided to fly with him…
    not a very pleasant first experience to start in this demanding world.
    To sumarice, i think that in a world with so much sims and with not so much people divided between them, a good sp mode with good campaigns, ai and options would be a good differentiating element able to sum points and attract the so needed newcomers to the comunity.
    I could continue with more things about this. But it´s starting to be too long so….
    What do you think?
    nailed it!

  8. #7
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    Smile Re: The importance of Singer Player

    Quote Originally Posted by DD_FT View Post
    The most immersive missions I've experienced were online. Multiplayer.

    In a group. Where you know your mates.

    With strict radio discipline.
    With call signs in use.

    In one occasion, this was heard over the radio, after a skirmish over enemy territory, where enemy fighters were encountered.

    "Hornet Red three from Red Leader. What is your status?"
    (... silence ...)

    "Hornet Red three from Red Leader. What is your status?"
    (... silence ...)




    Now imagine listening to this, while you are on your way back to home base. In formation. With all the others. Except for one.

    Silence...

    That's a level of immersion you will never get in Single Player ...



    Yes, sure that could be true with MP...
    But you depends more in finding people who want/has the time to do so...
    And with a good SP, you can allways get it in the MP, but not the opposite..

    Cheers

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  10. #8
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    Re: The importance of Singer Player

    Quote Originally Posted by DerDa View Post
    I fly CloD (with very few exceptions) only multiplayer online, but before I played Il2 1946 for years single player only.

    From this experience I don't there should be opposed sides sp vs. mp.
    Both have their up and both have their downs. And the best thing: nobody keeps you from trying both.

    From my old single player times I know that you sometimes feel less represented than ther online community, just because the online community is, well, online and much more present, while many singe players just keep to themselves.

    We all love this sim and we should be glad that the TFS guys work so hard to improve it for all of us.
    They already did very, very much to improve AI (which might be one of the hardest things to do) in Blitz.

    If you followed the update thread, you will know that TFS is well aware about the importance of single players (you just have to compare the numbers of people on the servers with the number of total players on Steam, after all).
    And if you followed the updates you will know that many times massive improvements for single players were announced.

    Believe me: you are in for a treat, once 5.0 will be out!

    S!

    DerDa
    "TFS guys work so hard to improve it for all of us."
    I Know....the difference between vanilla and what we have now is awesome ...

    "Believe me: you are in for a treat, once 5.0 will be out!"
    I´d really love that...

  11. #9
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    Re: The importance of Singer Player

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Laser View Post
    Some good points raised here.

    I fly both MP and SP, and I too feel that both have their Merits and faults. The cameraderie , flying alongside, against and talking on comms to other real players from all over the world is what makes MP shine, and what attracts players. Something that you just don't get in SP, but flying campaigns, SP missions and making your own missions is great fun too. Also it gives us lesser skilled players a chance to be more competitive without the presence of seasoned veterans, and even average players shooting you down all too easily all the time.

    In short, I think both are equally important, but I do think that both MP and SP in Cliffs offer a lot to the flight simmer, it's just that the MP stuff perhaps gets more publicity, perhaps, as has been suggested, because the online players tend to be 'Online' more

    Both are important..that`s it...
    But MP has been perhaps the most favoured in the last years...

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  13. #10
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    Re: The importance of Singer Player

    Quote Originally Posted by SamJoDo View Post
    nailed it!
    Thanks...

  14. #11
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    Re: The importance of Singer Player

    What's important?

    Do whatever you like the most. It doesn't matter if it's offline or online. The important thing is that you get the most fun out from the game/s you like the most. That's what really counts, IMHO. All the rest are just words. " Verba volant, the fun remains! " that's my motto.
    Last edited by Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders; Apr-28-2020 at 19:48.
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